National Forum

The Fairness Of Playing Laois V Dublin In Croke Park

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So... take The Dubs out of Croke Park to give the rest a better chance... county teams need to match them... the venue is irrelevant... and sadly we in Carlow are simply not good enough at the moment and neither is anybody else and that is at national level as well.
A pity that so.many focus on venue.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1521 - 17/11/2020 10:25:46    2310524

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Replying To carlowman:  "So... take The Dubs out of Croke Park to give the rest a better chance... county teams need to match them... the venue is irrelevant... and sadly we in Carlow are simply not good enough at the moment and neither is anybody else and that is at national level as well.
A pity that so.many focus on venue."
Some have even suggested taking the Leinster Final, AI Semi Final and AI Final out of Croke Park if Dublin are involved.

Doesnt bother us where we play...!

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3309 - 17/11/2020 10:41:37    2310532

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Replying To Fionn:  "Some have even suggested taking the Leinster Final, AI Semi Final and AI Final out of Croke Park if Dublin are involved.

Doesnt bother us where we play...!"
They should take it outside Croker this year since there won't be a ticket squabble to contend with.

Once everyone can see for themselves this year that Dublin can beat anyone anywhere in the country maybe we can get back to business as usual next year without the same silly arguments about semi's and final venues.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2020 - 17/11/2020 11:27:18    2310546

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First of all I agree Dublin would play where they are asked and why wouldn't they take advantage of playing 99% of their games in croker?
Its easily worth a few points per game and there is no county going to turn that down!
That been said there isn't another sport in the world where this would happen.
Imagine Manchester United playing all their fa Cup and champions league games in Old Trafford not a chance.
Looking at the leinster championship it doesn't matter where it is played Dublin will win anyway but its the feel of croker and its surroundings that the Dublin players pick up and that is invaluable come the semis and the final.
Eg. this year when Cavan or Donegal play Dublin in the semis it will be Dublins 3rd game there in a row I know if its Donegal and the game v Dublin was in ballybofey I know who'd I'd be putting my money on.
There was no excuse for the laois game been in croke Park reverting back to the spin from the gaa that there's not enough room in parnell Park for the supporters. Covid = no supporters but still get the advantage to become even more accustomed to it before the semis . Dublin are the cash machine of the gaa and fair enough if that's the way they want it but to me it has to be a win for Dublin at all costs.

letterkennyGuy (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 17/11/2020 11:35:57    2310549

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Replying To letterkennyGuy:  "First of all I agree Dublin would play where they are asked and why wouldn't they take advantage of playing 99% of their games in croker?
Its easily worth a few points per game and there is no county going to turn that down!
That been said there isn't another sport in the world where this would happen.
Imagine Manchester United playing all their fa Cup and champions league games in Old Trafford not a chance.
Looking at the leinster championship it doesn't matter where it is played Dublin will win anyway but its the feel of croker and its surroundings that the Dublin players pick up and that is invaluable come the semis and the final.
Eg. this year when Cavan or Donegal play Dublin in the semis it will be Dublins 3rd game there in a row I know if its Donegal and the game v Dublin was in ballybofey I know who'd I'd be putting my money on.
There was no excuse for the laois game been in croke Park reverting back to the spin from the gaa that there's not enough room in parnell Park for the supporters. Covid = no supporters but still get the advantage to become even more accustomed to it before the semis . Dublin are the cash machine of the gaa and fair enough if that's the way they want it but to me it has to be a win for Dublin at all costs."
Dublin should be playing matches around the country up to the semi finals. Once it reaches that stage there is only one venue in the country big enough to cater for the event and that happens to be in the capital. So comparing it to soccer, a global sport with billionaire clubs across the world is chalk and cheese.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2020 - 17/11/2020 11:53:09    2310553

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "Not that it would make any difference to the outcome, but can anyone explain the fairness of playing Laois v Dublin in Croke Park today ?"
gives laois a day out

BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 255 - 17/11/2020 12:09:18    2310562

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Dublin should be playing matches around the country up to the semi finals. Once it reaches that stage there is only one venue in the country big enough to cater for the event and that happens to be in the capital. So comparing it to soccer, a global sport with billionaire clubs across the world is chalk and cheese."
The first part of your message is exactly what I said. Of course the semis and final etc should be played at croke Park. Secondly its not chalk and cheese it was an example. Taking the soccer billionaire clubs out of it swap Manchester United with shamrock rovers if it sits better.

letterkennyGuy (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 17/11/2020 12:15:57    2310566

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Replying To letterkennyGuy:  "The first part of your message is exactly what I said. Of course the semis and final etc should be played at croke Park. Secondly its not chalk and cheese it was an example. Taking the soccer billionaire clubs out of it swap Manchester United with shamrock rovers if it sits better."
Sorry, I read that one quickly. I totally agree with you on this.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2020 - 17/11/2020 12:36:59    2310579

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "Not that it would make any difference to the outcome, but can anyone explain the fairness of playing Laois v Dublin in Croke Park today ?"
Let me ask you this - how many of the Laois players have come out and said it was unfair and they never wanted to play there? for that matter over all the years this debate has being going on how many players have said that they wish they never played Dublin in Croke Park? Covid may have robbed players of the crowds and if you had your way you would also rob them of the occasion.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 982 - 17/11/2020 16:24:56    2310706

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Again it's the gaa and Leinster councils fault. In 2016 when the gaa said the dubs will have to play away games in rotation after ten yrs of Croker Laois drew home cenue (Portlaoise). However the gaa told Laois they had to play their home game in Kilkenny as Portlaoise had nt enough seats for Dubs season ticket holders. Laois complained saying that had nothing to do with them but gaa stood firm and game played in Kilkenny. Many Laois fans boycotted as a result. The following years Dublin drew Carlow and Wicklow away but gaa said their home grounds not suitable for Dub fans so game has to be played in NOT Kilkenny but Portlaoise. Now if that's not sticking your fingers up to Laois what is? Again this is not a rant against Dublin as even James Mccarthy was quoted recently saying teas unfair but its a rant against the gaa. Westmeath were not allowed play at home either. It is wrong and many Dublin posts on here would even agree to that. Now on Croke Park.the Neller is home ground but the Dublin County board pay rent sometimes to accommodate their fans which is fair enough. When a team has home venue they and they only should be allowed choose a suitable venue so if Dubs choose Croker or the blanch so ve it. However when Laois Westmeath Carlow get home venue it should be there choice. Kildare we're right a few years ago with"Newbridge or nowhere". I live in Dublin. My kids are dubs and my friends are duns and they would all welcome travel as would the Dublin team but the gaa high horses. We'll that's a different matter."
Well said. How much rent do Dublin pay when they play games in Croke Park? They would not be expected to pay rent for games which would be fixed for Croke Park irrespective of who was playing such as an All Ireland semi final or a Leinster Final. How much do they pay for a league game that is played in Croke Park?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5166 - 17/11/2020 17:25:19    2310737

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Well said. How much rent do Dublin pay when they play games in Croke Park? They would not be expected to pay rent for games which would be fixed for Croke Park irrespective of who was playing such as an All Ireland semi final or a Leinster Final. How much do they pay for a league game that is played in Croke Park?"
I don't know how much but yes it would nt be for Leinster finals or all ireland semi or finals. Because Dublin Co board dont own Croker they rent it for some games that are not fixed for Croker but its worth their while as they make a bigger profit with the bigger crowds. I never knew they rented Croker until an ex Dublin player informed me but he did nt know cost either.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 17/11/2020 17:39:41    2310743

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The argument that players like playing there is irrelevant.
The argument that Dublin are the best team in Ireland is also irrelevant.
In any fair competition, each team has either an equal number of home and away games or has equal opportunity to be drawn at home. Statistics consistently prove that home advantage matters in GAA , even to Dublin.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 668 - 17/11/2020 17:50:52    2310752

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Replying To zinny:  "Let me ask you this - how many of the Laois players have come out and said it was unfair and they never wanted to play there? for that matter over all the years this debate has being going on how many players have said that they wish they never played Dublin in Croke Park? Covid may have robbed players of the crowds and if you had your way you would also rob them of the occasion."
Don't know the answer to that but I know the gaa would nt not allow them play Dublin at home in 2016.Was reading an article in Irish Times by Kevin McStay and he said that in all the times Laois have played Dublin in the championship they never once got to play in Portlaoise.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 17/11/2020 17:53:09    2310754

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "The argument that players like playing there is irrelevant.
The argument that Dublin are the best team in Ireland is also irrelevant.
In any fair competition, each team has either an equal number of home and away games or has equal opportunity to be drawn at home. Statistics consistently prove that home advantage matters in GAA , even to Dublin."
How is an empty stadium an advantage to anyone? Look at this years premiership, crowdless stadiums do not give home teams any advantage, according to opta quite the opposite. I would say most GAA players would give a few teeth to play in Vroke park. The fact is with no one in the stadium we could play it on Alfie Byrne road, and the result would still be the same.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4434 - 17/11/2020 18:47:12    2310769

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Replying To arock:  "How is an empty stadium an advantage to anyone? Look at this years premiership, crowdless stadiums do not give home teams any advantage, according to opta quite the opposite. I would say most GAA players would give a few teeth to play in Vroke park. The fact is with no one in the stadium we could play it on Alfie Byrne road, and the result would still be the same."
So why not play it in Portlaoise? The pitch is smaller for a start and that does make a difference.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 668 - 17/11/2020 18:51:09    2310771

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Replying To arock:  "How is an empty stadium an advantage to anyone? Look at this years premiership, crowdless stadiums do not give home teams any advantage, according to opta quite the opposite. I would say most GAA players would give a few teeth to play in Vroke park. The fact is with no one in the stadium we could play it on Alfie Byrne road, and the result would still be the same."
At the rate people are going, Dublin should never play in Croker, oh and taken out of Leinster, oh and split in 2 also....
It is like putting someone in a large barrel and asking them to stand in the corner - forever going around in circles...

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3309 - 17/11/2020 19:37:45    2310801

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "So why not play it in Portlaoise? The pitch is smaller for a start and that does make a difference."
I would love to play in Croker, empty or full, instead of being forced to play in a regional ground....
It is what all kids/adults aspire to - playing in Croke Park. Something you would never turn down.
Imagine going through your career and only playing in provincial grounds - you would be fairly annoyed if you had the opportunity taken from you at some stage by your County Board...
So for a young Laois player for example - how many times will they get to play in Croke Park, not many I would think if some people had their way...

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3309 - 17/11/2020 19:40:13    2310802

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "So why not play it in Portlaoise? The pitch is smaller for a start and that does make a difference."
Really we don't know how the current Dublin team would have fared if they had more games outside Croke Park but as far as I know there has been no campaign by Dubs management or county board to play all their games in Croker. And Dublin are not over represented on the Leinster council or central council, so if there is fault where does it lie? Certainly, in my opinion, there are some teams, that Croke park suits, and for example as a dub if I had a choice where to play Mayo in a knockout championship match over the last number of years I wouldn't pick Croke park.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 205 - 17/11/2020 19:51:04    2310804

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Replying To arock:  "How is an empty stadium an advantage to anyone? Look at this years premiership, crowdless stadiums do not give home teams any advantage, according to opta quite the opposite. I would say most GAA players would give a few teeth to play in Vroke park. The fact is with no one in the stadium we could play it on Alfie Byrne road, and the result would still be the same."
Well I would say even an empty stadium is an advantage if you used to playing there. You know the bounce etc. The more you play on a pitch the more comfortable you are. Obviously Croker not as vital without the crowd but still an advantage all the same. Turn olit the other way is the Portlaoise would be an advantage to Laois as their players used to playing there even at club level. Would it change the outcome. No! but it would make the score a little better u would argue. Even when playing club football years ago with small crowd I always felt more comfortable on my home pitch. I knew every blade of grass. Why was Mickey Harte giving out about Donegal getting home advantage? Because it is an advantage. Also would Cork have beaten Kerry in Killarney
Maybe not! I just think that the gaa should gives teams an even break especially against a superpower like Dublin.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 17/11/2020 19:59:01    2310807

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Well I would say even an empty stadium is an advantage if you used to playing there. You know the bounce etc. The more you play on a pitch the more comfortable you are. Obviously Croker not as vital without the crowd but still an advantage all the same. Turn olit the other way is the Portlaoise would be an advantage to Laois as their players used to playing there even at club level. Would it change the outcome. No! but it would make the score a little better u would argue. Even when playing club football years ago with small crowd I always felt more comfortable on my home pitch. I knew every blade of grass. Why was Mickey Harte giving out about Donegal getting home advantage? Because it is an advantage. Also would Cork have beaten Kerry in Killarney
Maybe not! I just think that the gaa should gives teams an even break especially against a superpower like Dublin."
You know the bounce etc.....
Not a lot of bounce in Winter football now is there.....

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3309 - 17/11/2020 20:13:32    2310814

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