National Forum

Time To Accept Offaly Are Now A "Weaker" County

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As an Offaly man, I think today has confirmed what has been on the cards over the last 20 years or so. We are no longer a hurling force, on our own county forum Uibh Fhaili.com its the way we hurl, the manager, etc. etc. to blame, out of the starting 15 today half the team would not make most other teams...we simply dont have enough quality players...what do outsiders think...I think our "comeback" ship has finally sailed with todays defeat....

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 387 - 15/11/2020 00:00:37    2308982

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No. the only time it is is for people to stop saying there is "weaker" and "strong" counties.
What exactly makes a county a "weaker" county compared to anything else?
Provincial titles? All Irelands? League titles? etc

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 15/11/2020 01:44:56    2309005

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "As an Offaly man, I think today has confirmed what has been on the cards over the last 20 years or so. We are no longer a hurling force, on our own county forum Uibh Fhaili.com its the way we hurl, the manager, etc. etc. to blame, out of the starting 15 today half the team would not make most other teams...we simply dont have enough quality players...what do outsiders think...I think our "comeback" ship has finally sailed with todays defeat...."
You then get Galways posters having a pop at Mayo because they won the All Ireland back in the 1990s
At least you've acknowledged your decline

BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 255 - 15/11/2020 07:36:26    2309014

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "As an Offaly man, I think today has confirmed what has been on the cards over the last 20 years or so. We are no longer a hurling force, on our own county forum Uibh Fhaili.com its the way we hurl, the manager, etc. etc. to blame, out of the starting 15 today half the team would not make most other teams...we simply dont have enough quality players...what do outsiders think...I think our "comeback" ship has finally sailed with todays defeat...."
Currently, I'd agree, but nothing is ever final and no ship has fianlly sailed, as long sport continues to be played.
It could take 10 years, it could take more than 20, but it is possible for Offaly to be competitive again. It will take a massive amount of hard work and the development of young players from an early age, but it can be done.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 875 - 15/11/2020 09:23:58    2309027

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "As an Offaly man, I think today has confirmed what has been on the cards over the last 20 years or so. We are no longer a hurling force, on our own county forum Uibh Fhaili.com its the way we hurl, the manager, etc. etc. to blame, out of the starting 15 today half the team would not make most other teams...we simply dont have enough quality players...what do outsiders think...I think our "comeback" ship has finally sailed with todays defeat...."
As a young Meath lad growing up on the Offaly border. Offaly were the benchmark In gaa. They were truly a dual county. That could and indeed did win both provincial titles and all ire at both codes.
It's sad. But it won't change anytime soon. Start at u8s u10s and work with them the whole way up to minor u20 and then and only then can they be competitive again.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 15/11/2020 10:06:56    2309042

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Replying To BeJasus:  "You then get Galways posters having a pop at Mayo because they won the All Ireland back in the 1990s
At least you've acknowledged your decline"
rubbish post there a mhac, Galway-Mayo have a massive rivalry at top inter-county level, both counties are gr8

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1042 - 15/11/2020 10:15:07    2309044

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Replying To BeJasus:  "You then get Galways posters having a pop at Mayo because they won the All Ireland back in the 1990s
At least you've acknowledged your decline"
And you get Mayo posters having a pop at Galway. What on earth has any of that got to do with Offaly hurling. 2001 isn't the 90s, just to be absolutley accurate.
Offaly are in the third tier of the hurling championship currently. The Galway footballers are a division 1 team and were All-Ireland semi-finalists 2 years ago. There's no comparison between the two at the moment. A very clumsy attempt to derail a thread about Offaly hurling.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 875 - 15/11/2020 10:20:28    2309048

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "As an Offaly man, I think today has confirmed what has been on the cards over the last 20 years or so. We are no longer a hurling force, on our own county forum Uibh Fhaili.com its the way we hurl, the manager, etc. etc. to blame, out of the starting 15 today half the team would not make most other teams...we simply dont have enough quality players...what do outsiders think...I think our "comeback" ship has finally sailed with todays defeat...."
Offaly have fallen away from the glory days, I think maybe there was a belief that with adult success, the good days would continue regardless of the underage structures. That has been proved wrong. There are critics of the players and manager, but we have to put 2020 behind us, and allow the present management to continue, with the aim of improving things in 2021.
It has to start at underage, and work from there, a long process, our minors and U20 hurlers won recently, against Laois and Westmeath. We could not beat either of those counties in recent years.

A few green shoots, but a long way to go. I will still support Offaly regardless, of their position, if all Offaly people did that, it would be some help. We can offer our views and disappointment, but players and management are human, and they don't go out to lose. The longest journey begins with a single step.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 15/11/2020 13:02:07    2309116

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I just posted a minute ago. I don't remember Offaly's glory days, but yeah unfortunately they are gone as a hurling force and my father laments their loss.
I was skirting around Wexford underage teams a few years ago but couldn't nail a place. We played Offaly several times coming up and my god they were terrible. Lads who couldn't pick the ball, had only 1 side, awful.

I am not going to rub salt in anybody's wounds, we have enough of our own to lick in Wexford today. But unfortunately for Offaly, it is time to start with the underage and focus all efforts there. There are (I presume) great hurling people in Offaly, its time for them to stand up and give Michael Duignan (who I have a love/hate relationship with) a hand.
Not an easy road back, that is for sure.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 864 - 15/11/2020 13:11:50    2309121

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Replying To KillingFields:  "No. the only time it is is for people to stop saying there is "weaker" and "strong" counties.
What exactly makes a county a "weaker" county compared to anything else?
Provincial titles? All Irelands? League titles? etc"
Exactly. Not fond of those labels myself, Offaly are where they are on merit and its up to themselves to put the hardwork in to get themselves up the tiers.

Nothing personal against Offaly but just because they won All Irelands in the 90's it doesn't give then a God given right to think they are a Liam McCarthy standard team now ahead of the likes of Down, Derry, Kildare and the McDonagh teams. They need to regroup for next year and work hard to try win the Christy Ring and start from there.

Lets not take away from Down though (who have decent tradition from the 90's too), great victory for them and great to see them promoted to the McDonagh for next year. Good to see them and Antrim making progress after some dark years for Ulster hurling.

Skullduggery (Dublin) - Posts: 5 - 15/11/2020 13:30:38    2309130

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Replying To BeJasus:  "You then get Galways posters having a pop at Mayo because they won the All Ireland back in the 1990s
At least you've acknowledged your decline"
What does Mayo have to do with this thread? Galway last won a football AI in 2001 and Mayo in 51. Doesn't matter because both teams are still among the best in the country.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 15/11/2020 13:32:38    2309131

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Replying To BeJasus:  "You then get Galways posters having a pop at Mayo because they won the All Ireland back in the 1990s
At least you've acknowledged your decline"
What does Mayo have to do with this thread? Galway last won a football AI in 2001 and Mayo in 51. Doesn't matter because both teams are still among the best in the country.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 15/11/2020 13:32:42    2309132

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Offaly are no longer a hurling power but that has been clear for some time but I'd still expect them go up to Joe McDonagh next year. The other teams in it are Derry, London, Roscommon, Wicklow, and Sligo. Not sure how relegation between CR and NR is going to work so that could change. Offaly beat Derry. London doesn't field decent teams anymore. Wicklow is the only team which could be a challenge.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 15/11/2020 13:40:01    2309134

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I think many accepted that before yesterday. When was the last time Offaly beat a top 8 team in the championship? Btw I would class Wexford as a top 8 team in 2012, so that's not to be included

Hurling has a distinct hierarchy at the moment

Tier 1
Tipp
Limerick
Kilkenny
Galway

Tier 2
Cork
Waterford
Clare

Tier 3
Wexford
Dublin
Laois

Tier 4
Carlow
Westmeath
Kerry
Antrim

Tier 5
Meath
Down
Offaly
Kildare

Tier 6
Derry
Roscommon
Wicklow
Sligo

890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 1204 - 15/11/2020 14:32:09    2309164

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Replying To KillingFields:  "No. the only time it is is for people to stop saying there is "weaker" and "strong" counties.
What exactly makes a county a "weaker" county compared to anything else?
Provincial titles? All Irelands? League titles? etc"
What exactly makes a county a "weaker" you ask, Provincial titles? All Irelands? League titles? Etc, - All those are part of the reason, another reason is the year on year refusal of Croke Park to recognize that there is about 16 counties that can't stop the other 16 approx. from continuously opening up a bigger gap. Neither does it help when the media constantly ignore div 4 counties, in particular, the reasonable recognition they deserve in some of their win or lose matches, some of which may rightly deserve a real creditable report in paper print if nothing else.

Then you have our national broadcaster, radio for example the Sunday sports presenters are more often than not, totally oblivious to what's happening between div.3 and div.4 teams on the field of play, continued preference is given to div.1 and div.2, not forgetting the super 8's

From a TV point of view the bottom 16 are living off dietary scraps or less, if a bottom team deserves an unavoidable mention on the Sunday game it usually is delivered in seconds up 3 decimal points, as for a few clips of action from Div. 4 game well forget about it. Because of those examples and since they introduced the super 8's a bit of unfamiliar snobbery has crept in, while that doesn't deter, it doesn't help either.

So I hope this goes some way in answering your question, if it doesn't, well there are no more answers that I'm aware of.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2161 - 15/11/2020 16:12:27    2309293

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It definitely looks bleak for Offaly's chance of getting back to the Liam McCarthy in the next 3-5 years.

It would be interesting if they did get back how competitive they would be with the likes of Wexford and Dublin as maybe one promotion could be enough to get the interest in hurling back and raise the standard back to where it was about 10 years ago, but there's no guarantee they'll be above McDonagh level in a few years

eoghan6688 (Galway) - Posts: 129 - 15/11/2020 16:21:43    2309307

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Replying To supersub15:  "What exactly makes a county a "weaker" you ask, Provincial titles? All Irelands? League titles? Etc, - All those are part of the reason, another reason is the year on year refusal of Croke Park to recognize that there is about 16 counties that can't stop the other 16 approx. from continuously opening up a bigger gap. Neither does it help when the media constantly ignore div 4 counties, in particular, the reasonable recognition they deserve in some of their win or lose matches, some of which may rightly deserve a real creditable report in paper print if nothing else.

Then you have our national broadcaster, radio for example the Sunday sports presenters are more often than not, totally oblivious to what's happening between div.3 and div.4 teams on the field of play, continued preference is given to div.1 and div.2, not forgetting the super 8's

From a TV point of view the bottom 16 are living off dietary scraps or less, if a bottom team deserves an unavoidable mention on the Sunday game it usually is delivered in seconds up 3 decimal points, as for a few clips of action from Div. 4 game well forget about it. Because of those examples and since they introduced the super 8's a bit of unfamiliar snobbery has crept in, while that doesn't deter, it doesn't help either.

So I hope this goes some way in answering your question, if it doesn't, well there are no more answers that I'm aware of."
But if people keep using the terms everywhere then of course that kind of thinking will be reinforced in everything that happens.
The media doesnt ignore division 4. It simply doesnt get near the coverage higher divisions get because its the lowest/weakest/poorest division.
would you expect league two to get similar coverage as the premiership in soccer? Its the same thing.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 15/11/2020 16:30:55    2309313

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I'm sorry but posting this after down deservedly won is harsh, Offaly where massive favourites for a reason you can't take away downs performance. Offaly have definitely a lot of thinking and planning to do now for the future.

Antrimroad (Down) - Posts: 92 - 15/11/2020 16:31:50    2309315

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What exactly makes a county a "weaker" you ask, Provincial titles? All Irelands? League titles? Etc, - All those are part of the reason, another reason is the year on year refusal of Croke Park to recognize that there is about 16 counties that can't stop the other 16 approx. from continuously opening up a bigger gap. Neither does it help when the media constantly ignore div 4 counties, in particular, the reasonable recognition they deserve in some of their win or lose matches, some of which may rightly deserve a real creditable report in paper print if nothing else.

Then you have our national broadcaster, radio for example the Sunday sports presenters are more often than not, totally oblivious to what's happening between div.3 and div.4 teams on the field of play, continued preference is given to div.1 and div.2, not forgetting the super 8's

From a TV point of view the bottom 16 are living off dietary scraps or less, if a bottom team deserves an unavoidable mention on the Sunday game it usually is delivered in seconds up 3 decimal points, as for a few clips of action from Div. 4 game well forget about it. Because of those examples and since they introduced the super 8's a bit of unfamiliar snobbery has crept in, while that doesn't deter, it doesn't help either.

So I hope this goes some way in answering your question, if it doesn't, well there are no more answers that I'm aware of.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2147 - 15/11/2020 16:12:27 The terms stronger and weaker counties dont and shouldnt be used. If you look at pure stats of titles, final appearances then realistically there is 3 strong counties and the rest all below but we dont do that.
By all means have a term like "big 3" or whatever but calling counties weak is nonsense especially top tier counties7
The broadcasters cant really be blamed for not covering division3/4 like division1/2. what sports do that?

Do sky sports, BT etc cover league 1 and 2 in same fashion as the premier league? No of course they dont and its the same in GAA.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 15/11/2020 16:52:45    2309337

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "I just posted a minute ago. I don't remember Offaly's glory days, but yeah unfortunately they are gone as a hurling force and my father laments their loss.
I was skirting around Wexford underage teams a few years ago but couldn't nail a place. We played Offaly several times coming up and my god they were terrible. Lads who couldn't pick the ball, had only 1 side, awful.

I am not going to rub salt in anybody's wounds, we have enough of our own to lick in Wexford today. But unfortunately for Offaly, it is time to start with the underage and focus all efforts there. There are (I presume) great hurling people in Offaly, its time for them to stand up and give Michael Duignan (who I have a love/hate relationship with) a hand.
Not an easy road back, that is for sure."
Your father is a fair man. There are good hurling people, in Offaly including Michael Duignan. It has to start from the youth. There are still problems in skill, as you said, we need to improve that, to compete at higher levels. Good luck to Wexford in 2021, a proud county. We will aim to improve next year.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 15/11/2020 17:24:37    2309376

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