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Mixed messages here, I'm hearing words like Dublins home ground and then national stadium belonging to everyone. It's either Dublins home ground or not.
Technically all GAA stadiums belong to the GAA.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 12/11/2020 19:22:39
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Clones. The other semi-final could be played in Limerick." Clones hasn't floodlighting.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2216 - 12/11/2020 23:02:06
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: " Replying To Kurt_Angle: "We have been told for years that Croke Park had to be used on big days because it was the the only ground that could accommodate the crowds that would want to go
That's not strictly accurate and you're putting the cart before the horse. The primary reasons that Croke Park is used are contractual. This includes:
- Corporate boxes - sold on the basis of having QF / SF / AIF in Croke Park
- TV contracts - facilities provision
- Advertising contracts - CP has the highest availability, prominence (also tied into TV advertising prominence)
With the exception of certain games involving certain teams (principally Dublin and Mayo in recent years), there are other available grounds that would meet attendance requirements. It appears more common that the games with lower crowds expected are grouped into double headers in CP to maximise attendance when the game would already have to be hosted there for the above reasons.
Also, why have a stadium like CP in place if you're not going to use it? People were up in arms about the cost of PUC when it's usage would be considered quite limited. Would failure to use CP not create a similar issue?
I agree with the premise of having a venue that is fairer to all participants but that's too simplistic a view in the current age. If contractual agreements allowed use of other venues for certain games, by all means use them. If contractual agreements don't allow this, then no arguments of "fairness" or otherwise should determine venues." Well if that is the case Kurt and I'm not doubting it is well then dublin need to get their own stadium to play their league games in, then Crokepark can be kept "neutral" and solely for leinster finals allireland semifinals and allireland final quarter finals can be neutral venues for fairness"
You'd imagine that, as Dublin get an average of about 20-25k attendance at league matches, the capacity of a new stadium should be a minimum of 25k and probably closer to 30k to suit requirements.
The average cost per seat of building a stadium varies wildly across Europe but it's probably fair to use our closest neighbour's average cost as a benchmark. On this basis, the average cost per seat would be approximately €5,164 (link). So a 25k stadium would cost an estimated €129.1m and a 30k stadium would cost an estimated €154.9m. Given the recent propensity for building costs to increase exponentially in this country (PUC, Children's Hospital etc.), I'd say these figures are very conservative.
Who in their right mind would sanction such costs in the current climate? Even if things were back to normal with full attendances and maximised revenues, how would the GAA justify having another stadium in Dublin when there's already one with all required facilities available?
Personally, I would absolutely love if Dublin had their own 30k stadium, in the Spawell complex or otherwise, and had this packed to the rafters for league games and appropriate championship games. However, based on costs and current availability, I think it would be very hard to say "Dublin need to get their own stadium" purely on the basis that "Croke Park can be kept "neutral"". In fact, if building of a new stadium went ahead, wouldn't there be a huge fuss kicked up by GAA fans (and taxpayers, who would, no doubt, have to foot some of the costs) across the country at more funds being given to Dublin?
Your aspiration of keeping the quarter finals in a neutral venue (which Croke Park ostensibly is), unfortunately, a non-runner at the minute due to, as previously mentioned, the contracts in place for corporate boxes etc.
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 549 - 13/11/2020 10:53:19
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1000 spectators were allowed into Windsor park for the soccer match last night. So would playing games in Newry, Armagh, Enniskillen or Omagh be an option, taking advantage of the different COVID restrictions in the six counties?
football first (None) - Posts: 1181 - 13/11/2020 11:50:20
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Replying To football first: "1000 spectators were allowed into Windsor park for the soccer match last night. So would playing games in Newry, Armagh, Enniskillen or Omagh be an option, taking advantage of the different COVID restrictions in the six counties?" Can't see that happening. The north is a basket case in terms of dealing with Covid. Why bring teams and supporters up to Newry or Omagh? It's just plain stupid.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10339 - 13/11/2020 12:46:46
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: " Replying To KingdomBoy1: "[quote=Kurt_Angle: "We have been told for years that Croke Park had to be used on big days because it was the the only ground that could accommodate the crowds that would want to go
That's not strictly accurate and you're putting the cart before the horse. The primary reasons that Croke Park is used are contractual. This includes:
- Corporate boxes - sold on the basis of having QF / SF / AIF in Croke Park
- TV contracts - facilities provision
- Advertising contracts - CP has the highest availability, prominence (also tied into TV advertising prominence)
With the exception of certain games involving certain teams (principally Dublin and Mayo in recent years), there are other available grounds that would meet attendance requirements. It appears more common that the games with lower crowds expected are grouped into double headers in CP to maximise attendance when the game would already have to be hosted there for the above reasons.
Also, why have a stadium like CP in place if you're not going to use it? People were up in arms about the cost of PUC when it's usage would be considered quite limited. Would failure to use CP not create a similar issue?
I agree with the premise of having a venue that is fairer to all participants but that's too simplistic a view in the current age. If contractual agreements allowed use of other venues for certain games, by all means use them. If contractual agreements don't allow this, then no arguments of "fairness" or otherwise should determine venues." Well if that is the case Kurt and I'm not doubting it is well then dublin need to get their own stadium to play their league games in, then Crokepark can be kept "neutral" and solely for leinster finals allireland semifinals and allireland final quarter finals can be neutral venues for fairness"
You'd imagine that, as Dublin get an average of about 20-25k attendance at league matches, the capacity of a new stadium should be a minimum of 25k and probably closer to 30k to suit requirements.
The average cost per seat of building a stadium varies wildly across Europe but it's probably fair to use our closest neighbour's average cost as a benchmark. On this basis, the average cost per seat would be approximately €5,164 (link). So a 25k stadium would cost an estimated €129.1m and a 30k stadium would cost an estimated €154.9m. Given the recent propensity for building costs to increase exponentially in this country (PUC, Children's Hospital etc.), I'd say these figures are very conservative.
Who in their right mind would sanction such costs in the current climate? Even if things were back to normal with full attendances and maximised revenues, how would the GAA justify having another stadium in Dublin when there's already one with all required facilities available?
Personally, I would absolutely love if Dublin had their own 30k stadium, in the Spawell complex or otherwise, and had this packed to the rafters for league games and appropriate championship games. However, based on costs and current availability, I think it would be very hard to say "Dublin need to get their own stadium" purely on the basis that "Croke Park can be kept "neutral"". In fact, if building of a new stadium went ahead, wouldn't there be a huge fuss kicked up by GAA fans (and taxpayers, who would, no doubt, have to foot some of the costs) across the country at more funds being given to Dublin?
Your aspiration of keeping the quarter finals in a neutral venue (which Croke Park ostensibly is), unfortunately, a non-runner at the minute due to, as previously mentioned, the contracts in place for corporate boxes etc."]The DCB approached, the GAA with a dual funding model looking support with developing a new 30-40k stadium, a big fat no came from the GAA. The GAA have absolutely no will or want for Dublin to play anywhere but Croke Park, what the hell else would they do with it really.
Croke Park is a huge spinner and key pillar to the GAA finances, commercial revenue alone in Croke Park last dwarfed gate receipts of all games last year. If the DCB could take the Dublin element of that out of Croke Park and develop their own ground its a huge source of revenue. Its not surprising the GAA don't wan it.
The GAA are happy as Larry with the Croke Park being Dublins home ground.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 13/11/2020 13:39:16
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Replying To yew_tree: "Can't see that happening. The north is a basket case in terms of dealing with Covid. Why bring teams and supporters up to Newry or Omagh? It's just plain stupid." No bigger basket cases than the Irish government who still allowed flights in form USA at the height of this covid thing. Still a good result for Slovakia, happy days.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 276 - 13/11/2020 14:19:40
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Replying To yew_tree: "Can't see that happening. The north is a basket case in terms of dealing with Covid. Why bring teams and supporters up to Newry or Omagh? It's just plain stupid." Mayo v Donegal in the final in Enniskillen - with 500 spectators allowed in from each team. You could even have a live televised draw for the Golden Tickets!!
football first (None) - Posts: 1181 - 13/11/2020 15:42:08
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Replying To KillingFields: "I've no doubt about that, and I don't disagree, but my assertion is that for counties on the west coast, players and management would not prefer an empty Croke Park over a neutral venue half-way between semi-finalists or finalists.
SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 183 - 11/11/2020 18:43:36I would be very surprised players wouldnt prefer playing in an empty Croke Park over another ground. Name what county of those left that would pick another ground over Croke Park?
I can guarantee you that players from Donegal would not rather a 8 hour round trip to play in an empty Croke Park. There's no team busses, they have to drive themselves, catch yourself on! They would much rather a neutral venue where both sets of teams are limited equally and fairly in their preparations.
I would sincerely doubt that Cork, Mayo, Galway would either.
SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 183 - 11/11/2020 12:40:40 Where does it say players have to drive themselves?
What neutral venues would you suggest be used?
Outside of Croke Park, how many pitches would be guaranteed to be playable in the event of two very bad weeks of weather in December? Not many, I suspect.
midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 208 - 11/11/2020 16:41:57Plenty. They have groundsmen do most not?" Because of the lack of motorway I would imagine Donegal would prefer a neutral venue that is half-way. Some parts of the county are over 4 hours from the capital by car.
GAA team have been told to avoid the use of team busses to mitigate risk of spreading the virus. Three weeks ago Donegal players drove to Kerry.
As for potential venues, I can't answer that really. That is an obstacle in itself, and if there is no appropriate neutral venue close to halfway between counties then both teams would have to accept that.
There's only really three that would make geographical sense for Donegal and Dublin for example. I see no reason Clones could not be used if the fixture is fixed for an early throw in. Breffni Park, and Pearse Park are the other alternatives. Many of that current Dublin team won the U21 All Ireland v Donegal in Breffni in 2010.
I could only imagine that west coast teams would rather these potential venues be tested for suitability in the interest of fairness due to restricted travelling arrangements during covid.
SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 195 - 13/11/2020 16:01:48
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Dublin s home ground is parnell Park. Croke Park is for everybody. Croker considered home to dubs cos its located in Dublin and Dublin play most of the games there due to logistics. Tbh Parnell Park cannot hold big crowds and the gaa are not going to lose out on the revenue the Dublin fans bring. Of course its an advantage for Dublin playing in Croker even present players admit that and Paddy Cullen said "even the dogs in the street know that". However it's not the Dublin teams fault and it would be unfair on not only dub fans but opposing county fans if they could nt be accommodated for a big match dú to a small capacity. The dubs themselves would have no problem travelling and the supporters would enjoy it. Its the gaa hierarchy that make the decisions. Now this year there would not be a problem at all playing games away from Croke Park but no matter what I would want the final played there. Its our Mecca.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 13/11/2020 16:35:28
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: " Replying To KingdomBoy1: "[quote=Kurt_Angle: "We have been told for years that Croke Park had to be used on big days because it was the the only ground that could accommodate the crowds that would want to go
That's not strictly accurate and you're putting the cart before the horse. The primary reasons that Croke Park is used are contractual. This includes:
- Corporate boxes - sold on the basis of having QF / SF / AIF in Croke Park
- TV contracts - facilities provision
- Advertising contracts - CP has the highest availability, prominence (also tied into TV advertising prominence)
With the exception of certain games involving certain teams (principally Dublin and Mayo in recent years), there are other available grounds that would meet attendance requirements. It appears more common that the games with lower crowds expected are grouped into double headers in CP to maximise attendance when the game would already have to be hosted there for the above reasons.
Also, why have a stadium like CP in place if you're not going to use it? People were up in arms about the cost of PUC when it's usage would be considered quite limited. Would failure to use CP not create a similar issue?
I agree with the premise of having a venue that is fairer to all participants but that's too simplistic a view in the current age. If contractual agreements allowed use of other venues for certain games, by all means use them. If contractual agreements don't allow this, then no arguments of "fairness" or otherwise should determine venues." Well if that is the case Kurt and I'm not doubting it is well then dublin need to get their own stadium to play their league games in, then Crokepark can be kept "neutral" and solely for leinster finals allireland semifinals and allireland final quarter finals can be neutral venues for fairness"
You'd imagine that, as Dublin get an average of about 20-25k attendance at league matches, the capacity of a new stadium should be a minimum of 25k and probably closer to 30k to suit requirements.
The average cost per seat of building a stadium varies wildly across Europe but it's probably fair to use our closest neighbour's average cost as a benchmark. On this basis, the average cost per seat would be approximately €5,164 (link). So a 25k stadium would cost an estimated €129.1m and a 30k stadium would cost an estimated €154.9m. Given the recent propensity for building costs to increase exponentially in this country (PUC, Children's Hospital etc.), I'd say these figures are very conservative.
Who in their right mind would sanction such costs in the current climate? Even if things were back to normal with full attendances and maximised revenues, how would the GAA justify having another stadium in Dublin when there's already one with all required facilities available?
Personally, I would absolutely love if Dublin had their own 30k stadium, in the Spawell complex or otherwise, and had this packed to the rafters for league games and appropriate championship games. However, based on costs and current availability, I think it would be very hard to say "Dublin need to get their own stadium" purely on the basis that "Croke Park can be kept "neutral"". In fact, if building of a new stadium went ahead, wouldn't there be a huge fuss kicked up by GAA fans (and taxpayers, who would, no doubt, have to foot some of the costs) across the country at more funds being given to Dublin?
Your aspiration of keeping the quarter finals in a neutral venue (which Croke Park ostensibly is), unfortunately, a non-runner at the minute due to, as previously mentioned, the contracts in place for corporate boxes etc."]In response Kurt and I take your point with corporate boxes etc but even before the super 8 s I don't think quarter finals were mentioned in that regard. Quarter finals were to be decided depending on the counties involved but semi s finals etc were to be contracted(for want of a better word) to Croker. This year though should be no prob due to no crowds. Advertising can be done anywhere. The final for me though has to be played there.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 13/11/2020 16:41:44
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Dublin s home ground is parnell Park. Croke Park is for everybody. Croker considered home to dubs cos its located in Dublin and Dublin play most of the games there due to logistics. Tbh Parnell Park cannot hold big crowds and the gaa are not going to lose out on the revenue the Dublin fans bring. Of course its an advantage for Dublin playing in Croker even present players admit that and Paddy Cullen said "even the dogs in the street know that". However it's not the Dublin teams fault and it would be unfair on not only dub fans but opposing county fans if they could nt be accommodated for a big match dú to a small capacity. The dubs themselves would have no problem travelling and the supporters would enjoy it. Its the gaa hierarchy that make the decisions. Now this year there would not be a problem at all playing games away from Croke Park but no matter what I would want the final played there. Its our Mecca." It's a divisive issue Mick, because people have a number of positions, on one hand people want to say it's Dublin home ground to hunt at and advantage and discredit. But in the next breath say Croke Park doesn't belong to anyone.
The truth is, there are no home grounds, there are just GAA grounds in every county and the biggest the county usually play in. They are administered by county boards certainly, but if county boards dispensed and grounds were sold the proceeds are the GAAs as an organisation, county boards are just a regional administrative arm. That's the cold hard facts of it. No ground really belongs to one county, they are ultimately the GAA's with county boards administering.
So away from facts you are looking at spiritual homes. PUC is Corks spiritual home, but ultimately is as much mine as someone in Corks, yet if Dublin play Cork their we are away. You can say the same for any county really.
Most County's play their home games in their counties biggest GAA grounds. Some counties play in two like Tuareg or Pearse, ASP or Killarney. Dublins biggest county ground in Croke Park, yes there is Parnell Park and I love the place so it's similar to other big footballing Counties two stadiums capable of holding inter-county games, it's only really the Senior Footballers who use Croke Park wholly, the neller holds more inter county games annually really. So really Dublin are doing what every other County does is play their home games in the Counties biggest GAA ground.
So if we accept ultimately the GAA own all grounds, you are looking at spiritual homes, McCale for Mayo, Killarney etc. Truthfully if you are playing Dublin in Croke Park, you are playing away, regardless of the ticket split or number of fans on the day, you will always be faced with the blue wall on the hill, but it's more......Croke Park is part of the City, the Sky line, we grew up playing in it like kids do Killarney, we puck and kicked balls up against it, that feeling of being no where more comfortable in the Country then amongst your own on the hill, the different teams that come to visit come and go, but always us, game on, game off Croke park is part of the city, and the city is part of Croke Park, its now the home of the five in a row., that will hold special meaning.
Other counties will feel a sense of belonging, because of a good day there, a sense of occasion or the culmination of a journey, or just the Croker draw.
This is why this debate becomes so muddled, ultimately their are no home grounds, just GAA grounds in County's. But Counties identify with a spiritual ho,e, sometimes two, Dublin have Parnell and Croker. That's divisive because half the forum want identify it as Dublin home so can they can get it out of them and the other half likes to think a bit of Croke Park is for them and a national Stadium, when really if you are playing Dublin there you are playing away. Clear as mud really.
It's one or the other, or all things! ;)
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 13/11/2020 17:47:21
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Replying To TheUsername: "It's a divisive issue Mick, because people have a number of positions, on one hand people want to say it's Dublin home ground to hunt at and advantage and discredit. But in the next breath say Croke Park doesn't belong to anyone.
The truth is, there are no home grounds, there are just GAA grounds in every county and the biggest the county usually play in. They are administered by county boards certainly, but if county boards dispensed and grounds were sold the proceeds are the GAAs as an organisation, county boards are just a regional administrative arm. That's the cold hard facts of it. No ground really belongs to one county, they are ultimately the GAA's with county boards administering.
So away from facts you are looking at spiritual homes. PUC is Corks spiritual home, but ultimately is as much mine as someone in Corks, yet if Dublin play Cork their we are away. You can say the same for any county really.
Most County's play their home games in their counties biggest GAA grounds. Some counties play in two like Tuareg or Pearse, ASP or Killarney. Dublins biggest county ground in Croke Park, yes there is Parnell Park and I love the place so it's similar to other big footballing Counties two stadiums capable of holding inter-county games, it's only really the Senior Footballers who use Croke Park wholly, the neller holds more inter county games annually really. So really Dublin are doing what every other County does is play their home games in the Counties biggest GAA ground.
So if we accept ultimately the GAA own all grounds, you are looking at spiritual homes, McCale for Mayo, Killarney etc. Truthfully if you are playing Dublin in Croke Park, you are playing away, regardless of the ticket split or number of fans on the day, you will always be faced with the blue wall on the hill, but it's more......Croke Park is part of the City, the Sky line, we grew up playing in it like kids do Killarney, we puck and kicked balls up against it, that feeling of being no where more comfortable in the Country then amongst your own on the hill, the different teams that come to visit come and go, but always us, game on, game off Croke park is part of the city, and the city is part of Croke Park, its now the home of the five in a row., that will hold special meaning.
Other counties will feel a sense of belonging, because of a good day there, a sense of occasion or the culmination of a journey, or just the Croker draw.
This is why this debate becomes so muddled, ultimately their are no home grounds, just GAA grounds in County's. But Counties identify with a spiritual ho,e, sometimes two, Dublin have Parnell and Croker. That's divisive because half the forum want identify it as Dublin home so can they can get it out of them and the other half likes to think a bit of Croke Park is for them and a national Stadium, when really if you are playing Dublin there you are playing away. Clear as mud really.
It's one or the other, or all things! ;)" No idea what you're talking about. Donegal has a home ground in Ballybofey. Don't understand how anyone from another county could consider it theirs as well.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 13/11/2020 18:39:41
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Replying To TheUsername: "It's a divisive issue Mick, because people have a number of positions, on one hand people want to say it's Dublin home ground to hunt at and advantage and discredit. But in the next breath say Croke Park doesn't belong to anyone.
The truth is, there are no home grounds, there are just GAA grounds in every county and the biggest the county usually play in. They are administered by county boards certainly, but if county boards dispensed and grounds were sold the proceeds are the GAAs as an organisation, county boards are just a regional administrative arm. That's the cold hard facts of it. No ground really belongs to one county, they are ultimately the GAA's with county boards administering.
So away from facts you are looking at spiritual homes. PUC is Corks spiritual home, but ultimately is as much mine as someone in Corks, yet if Dublin play Cork their we are away. You can say the same for any county really.
Most County's play their home games in their counties biggest GAA grounds. Some counties play in two like Tuareg or Pearse, ASP or Killarney. Dublins biggest county ground in Croke Park, yes there is Parnell Park and I love the place so it's similar to other big footballing Counties two stadiums capable of holding inter-county games, it's only really the Senior Footballers who use Croke Park wholly, the neller holds more inter county games annually really. So really Dublin are doing what every other County does is play their home games in the Counties biggest GAA ground.
So if we accept ultimately the GAA own all grounds, you are looking at spiritual homes, McCale for Mayo, Killarney etc. Truthfully if you are playing Dublin in Croke Park, you are playing away, regardless of the ticket split or number of fans on the day, you will always be faced with the blue wall on the hill, but it's more......Croke Park is part of the City, the Sky line, we grew up playing in it like kids do Killarney, we puck and kicked balls up against it, that feeling of being no where more comfortable in the Country then amongst your own on the hill, the different teams that come to visit come and go, but always us, game on, game off Croke park is part of the city, and the city is part of Croke Park, its now the home of the five in a row., that will hold special meaning.
Other counties will feel a sense of belonging, because of a good day there, a sense of occasion or the culmination of a journey, or just the Croker draw.
This is why this debate becomes so muddled, ultimately their are no home grounds, just GAA grounds in County's. But Counties identify with a spiritual ho,e, sometimes two, Dublin have Parnell and Croker. That's divisive because half the forum want identify it as Dublin home so can they can get it out of them and the other half likes to think a bit of Croke Park is for them and a national Stadium, when really if you are playing Dublin there you are playing away. Clear as mud really.
It's one or the other, or all things! ;)" Spot on Username. Yes gaa own all the grounds but of course certain grounds are special to different teams. Croke Park is always a touchy subject cos in one hand you have the familiarity for the dubs and the backing of the Hill and on the other hand you want your county to play in Croker. Even as a young lad playing the dubs in Croker was special although while I wanted my team to play there I was very intimidating almost frightening. I remember wanting not to be to close to the Hill. Yet there was great satisfaction watching Kerry play there(especially when victorious).No matter what the viewpoint of people though if you are in a final even if it's against Dublin you want to play in Croker. I'm all for fair play and believe it the home and away factor but the big day's have to be in Croker. I was talking to an ex Dublin player a few months ago and he wants to see Dublin play away from Croke and the reason being he said the team are being unfairly blamed for the Gaa s stance. He claimed folk are turning against Dublin through the gaa s actions. Now I have to admit the gaa are not helping. E. G. When the gaa finally agreed to let other counties in Leinster have home games v dublin as of yet it has nt happened. They made Laois play their home game v Dubs in Kilkenny cos portlaoise was suitable for dub fans. When carlow and wicklow got home advantage they said their pitches were nt suitable so they could play dubs in yes you guessed it Portlaoise. Even with Westmeath they played it i neutral again saying bout sky sports and lights etc. Pure s utter. Now fair play to James Mccarthy who came out a few weeks ago and said this was wrong. The Dublin players are also losers in this too as it affects the way they are perceived. When I was growing up Dublin played a lot of their leinster championship matches away. You ré so right iUsername it's such a devisive issue and it's do unfair on Dublin too. John Costello did nt help matter with his comments that Donegal were mean spirited for looking for some fair play either.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 13/11/2020 18:51:55
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Spot on Username. Yes gaa own all the grounds but of course certain grounds are special to different teams. Croke Park is always a touchy subject cos in one hand you have the familiarity for the dubs and the backing of the Hill and on the other hand you want your county to play in Croker. Even as a young lad playing the dubs in Croker was special although while I wanted my team to play there I was very intimidating almost frightening. I remember wanting not to be to close to the Hill. Yet there was great satisfaction watching Kerry play there(especially when victorious).No matter what the viewpoint of people though if you are in a final even if it's against Dublin you want to play in Croker. I'm all for fair play and believe it the home and away factor but the big day's have to be in Croker. I was talking to an ex Dublin player a few months ago and he wants to see Dublin play away from Croke and the reason being he said the team are being unfairly blamed for the Gaa s stance. He claimed folk are turning against Dublin through the gaa s actions. Now I have to admit the gaa are not helping. E. G. When the gaa finally agreed to let other counties in Leinster have home games v dublin as of yet it has nt happened. They made Laois play their home game v Dubs in Kilkenny cos portlaoise was suitable for dub fans. When carlow and wicklow got home advantage they said their pitches were nt suitable so they could play dubs in yes you guessed it Portlaoise. Even with Westmeath they played it i neutral again saying bout sky sports and lights etc. Pure s utter. Now fair play to James Mccarthy who came out a few weeks ago and said this was wrong. The Dublin players are also losers in this too as it affects the way they are perceived. When I was growing up Dublin played a lot of their leinster championship matches away. You ré so right iUsername it's such a devisive issue and it's do unfair on Dublin too. John Costello did nt help matter with his comments that Donegal were mean spirited for looking for some fair play either." It's an issue of competing needs really. Many want to believe it's Dublin home ground to discredit, many want to believe it's a national stadium, regardless there and the Neller will always be Dublins spiritual home.
But without Dublin in Croke Park there are huge dilemmas for the GAA. Croke park is a key pillar of GAA finance, I know people give out about the GAA and money but realistically this is what funds games, clubs and counties around the country. Commercial revenue from Croke Park last year was more then all gate receipts in all games last year, sponsorship, merchandise, match day refreshments, premium seats, corporate boxes etc. Regardless of sport allegiance, Dublin are the biggest market in the country and the biggest suppported, biggest market and and a result the most commercially attractive entity in the GAA, their own commercial revenue is evidence of it. So with that mind the GAA are fulfilling its duty of doing what's best for developing the game, maximising revenue to spread it around the country. What would the GAA do with Croke Park for all the months of the year if not for Dublin, were would the money come from, who would be the draw. From the GAAs point of view separating Dublin from Croke Park is to the detriment of the association.
With the above motivation in mind and from a personal point of view, I think the GAA and the Leinster Council has gone to far. The changing of grounds for early Leinster games when Dublin away is wrong, it's a huge temptation for the Leinster Council to squeeze Dublin dry during the Leinster championship, their fixtures are the financial jewel in the crown, while even without a crowd last week game had to be moved for Sat night under floodlights to sell advertising on SKY Sports. The tipping point for me was the S8s, I've no problem saying Dublin having two games in Croke Park was wrong and unfair. I don't think those decisions were made for sporting reasons, rather financial, Dublin in Croke Park is a money spinner.
I'm surprised by the comment by the ex player, because it's not something that stresses me, I think as you say Dublin are as much the victim of being the big draw for the Leinster Council and GAA. If you speak to all Dubs I think unanimously we would like more road trips, I'd like it for the craic as the best days are the away ones. But also for fairness - it's gone to far wot( the two games in the S8s. I know for a fact the DCB have gone more then one to look at 30-40k stadium with a 50/50% funding model. The GAA have no interest in taking Dublin out of Croke Park in fact they fear it.
Personally I'd have no issue, with home or away draw for all rounds and rotating semis and the final around the four provinces every year, many will want the final in Croke Park, but I personally wouldn't mind if it was in PUC or Casement when it's done, but then I've been Croker likely thousands of times, so would be open minded,
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 13/11/2020 20:11:22
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Replying To TheUsername: "It's an issue of competing needs really. Many want to believe it's Dublin home ground to discredit, many want to believe it's a national stadium, regardless there and the Neller will always be Dublins spiritual home.
But without Dublin in Croke Park there are huge dilemmas for the GAA. Croke park is a key pillar of GAA finance, I know people give out about the GAA and money but realistically this is what funds games, clubs and counties around the country. Commercial revenue from Croke Park last year was more then all gate receipts in all games last year, sponsorship, merchandise, match day refreshments, premium seats, corporate boxes etc. Regardless of sport allegiance, Dublin are the biggest market in the country and the biggest suppported, biggest market and and a result the most commercially attractive entity in the GAA, their own commercial revenue is evidence of it. So with that mind the GAA are fulfilling its duty of doing what's best for developing the game, maximising revenue to spread it around the country. What would the GAA do with Croke Park for all the months of the year if not for Dublin, were would the money come from, who would be the draw. From the GAAs point of view separating Dublin from Croke Park is to the detriment of the association.
With the above motivation in mind and from a personal point of view, I think the GAA and the Leinster Council has gone to far. The changing of grounds for early Leinster games when Dublin away is wrong, it's a huge temptation for the Leinster Council to squeeze Dublin dry during the Leinster championship, their fixtures are the financial jewel in the crown, while even without a crowd last week game had to be moved for Sat night under floodlights to sell advertising on SKY Sports. The tipping point for me was the S8s, I've no problem saying Dublin having two games in Croke Park was wrong and unfair. I don't think those decisions were made for sporting reasons, rather financial, Dublin in Croke Park is a money spinner.
I'm surprised by the comment by the ex player, because it's not something that stresses me, I think as you say Dublin are as much the victim of being the big draw for the Leinster Council and GAA. If you speak to all Dubs I think unanimously we would like more road trips, I'd like it for the craic as the best days are the away ones. But also for fairness - it's gone to far wot( the two games in the S8s. I know for a fact the DCB have gone more then one to look at 30-40k stadium with a 50/50% funding model. The GAA have no interest in taking Dublin out of Croke Park in fact they fear it.
Personally I'd have no issue, with home or away draw for all rounds and rotating semis and the final around the four provinces every year, many will want the final in Croke Park, but I personally wouldn't mind if it was in PUC or Casement when it's done, but then I've been Croker likely thousands of times, so would be open minded," I'm opened minded myself on the whole issue. It has its pro s and cons. Another issue it's great to spread games around county towns for economic reasons too.Everyone gets a turn the shops bars and restaurants. I was talking to a barman in clones 2 yrs ago before the Monaghan Kerry super 8 game and he told me Clones lives for the big games. Also of course I'm biased here but the semi final v Mayo in Limerick was one of the best atmospheres I ever came across. It was unreal hair raising stuff although that was unfair to Mayo too as Limerick was not neutral for them. IThurles 01 great craic too. But if course the gaa needs money to survive too so of course if you can sell over 82000 seats then it has to be Croker. I must admit though on the Limerick game in 14 while it was unbelievable tension wise and excitement it was strange not being in Croker and did nt really feel like a semi final till game was over.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 13/11/2020 20:57:38
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "I'm opened minded myself on the whole issue. It has its pro s and cons. Another issue it's great to spread games around county towns for economic reasons too.Everyone gets a turn the shops bars and restaurants. I was talking to a barman in clones 2 yrs ago before the Monaghan Kerry super 8 game and he told me Clones lives for the big games. Also of course I'm biased here but the semi final v Mayo in Limerick was one of the best atmospheres I ever came across. It was unreal hair raising stuff although that was unfair to Mayo too as Limerick was not neutral for them. IThurles 01 great craic too. But if course the gaa needs money to survive too so of course if you can sell over 82000 seats then it has to be Croker. I must admit though on the Limerick game in 14 while it was unbelievable tension wise and excitement it was strange not being in Croker and did nt really feel like a semi final till game was over." I think it all needs a creative mind Mick. If Croke Park is generating huge corporate money, I think you are eventually looking at a root and branch Championship/league restructure. I say this because the likes of PUC, Casement and even Newbridge have plans for a corporate/commercial element for the stadium development, not sure on Navan. There likely needs to be guaranteed home games and income of a set number of games to make it marketable. For example if Dublin and Kildare draw each other, is it likely to be in Croke Park or Newbridge, in that case why would you pay through the nose for a premium or corporate seat in Newbridge. PUC similar.
Big games either need to be moved around or a no of games guaranteed at "home" . I think if that happened counties could look at selling home season tickets, premium seats, corporate boxes, better advertising etc. Essentially they need to enable what Dublin have and do in Croke Park elsewhere and for other counties. I think that's the future to be honest, there is just to much money in it and potential for growth. I'd love to see it spread round the country.
You have me in 01 I was only a nipper so wasn't down in Semple. The Limerick game looked class on TV, scorcher and the GG is one of the best grounds out there on a day like that, the game just kept giving to be honest. Dublin Vs Mayo can be pretty special, in the finals we played, Mayo fans are exceptional fans, huge admiration for them, even in Croker they will evenly split us in the ground. One of the best I experienced was in the Neller a couple of years ago Vs Kilkenny in Hurling , the Neller in special you can breath on the players necks, going from memory I'd also call on 13 semi between us, special game and atmosphere, 11 final special to, last year and the 17 final all stand out.
On Clones did you ever come across the farmer who opens his field for parking for a fiver the Dublin side of Clones, he's a gas man I had a sambo and a cup of tea with him our last league game down there, great craic he was telling me guides all the BMWs to the muckiest part of the field, watches them bury themselves with the rear wheel drive for five mins on the way out, then rescues them with his tractor via another great fuel fiver! ;)
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 13/11/2020 21:58:36
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Replying To TheUsername: "I think it all needs a creative mind Mick. If Croke Park is generating huge corporate money, I think you are eventually looking at a root and branch Championship/league restructure. I say this because the likes of PUC, Casement and even Newbridge have plans for a corporate/commercial element for the stadium development, not sure on Navan. There likely needs to be guaranteed home games and income of a set number of games to make it marketable. For example if Dublin and Kildare draw each other, is it likely to be in Croke Park or Newbridge, in that case why would you pay through the nose for a premium or corporate seat in Newbridge. PUC similar.
Big games either need to be moved around or a no of games guaranteed at "home" . I think if that happened counties could look at selling home season tickets, premium seats, corporate boxes, better advertising etc. Essentially they need to enable what Dublin have and do in Croke Park elsewhere and for other counties. I think that's the future to be honest, there is just to much money in it and potential for growth. I'd love to see it spread round the country.
You have me in 01 I was only a nipper so wasn't down in Semple. The Limerick game looked class on TV, scorcher and the GG is one of the best grounds out there on a day like that, the game just kept giving to be honest. Dublin Vs Mayo can be pretty special, in the finals we played, Mayo fans are exceptional fans, huge admiration for them, even in Croker they will evenly split us in the ground. One of the best I experienced was in the Neller a couple of years ago Vs Kilkenny in Hurling , the Neller in special you can breath on the players necks, going from memory I'd also call on 13 semi between us, special game and atmosphere, 11 final special to, last year and the 17 final all stand out.
On Clones did you ever come across the farmer who opens his field for parking for a fiver the Dublin side of Clones, he's a gas man I had a sambo and a cup of tea with him our last league game down there, great craic he was telling me guides all the BMWs to the muckiest part of the field, watches them bury themselves with the rear wheel drive for five mins on the way out, then rescues them with his tractor via another great fuel fiver! ;)" I'm afraid not Username. I did nt meet the farmer alas. True small grounds can generate a great atmosphere when full. In provincial games a home and away arrangement is best. We have it in munster. On corporate seating I'd guess it would have to be much cheaper in other stadia as they won't have the biggest games. The corporate boxes won't worry me unless I win lotto lol.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 13/11/2020 22:14:01
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Replying To TheUsername: "I think it all needs a creative mind Mick. If Croke Park is generating huge corporate money, I think you are eventually looking at a root and branch Championship/league restructure. I say this because the likes of PUC, Casement and even Newbridge have plans for a corporate/commercial element for the stadium development, not sure on Navan. There likely needs to be guaranteed home games and income of a set number of games to make it marketable. For example if Dublin and Kildare draw each other, is it likely to be in Croke Park or Newbridge, in that case why would you pay through the nose for a premium or corporate seat in Newbridge. PUC similar.
Big games either need to be moved around or a no of games guaranteed at "home" . I think if that happened counties could look at selling home season tickets, premium seats, corporate boxes, better advertising etc. Essentially they need to enable what Dublin have and do in Croke Park elsewhere and for other counties. I think that's the future to be honest, there is just to much money in it and potential for growth. I'd love to see it spread round the country.
You have me in 01 I was only a nipper so wasn't down in Semple. The Limerick game looked class on TV, scorcher and the GG is one of the best grounds out there on a day like that, the game just kept giving to be honest. Dublin Vs Mayo can be pretty special, in the finals we played, Mayo fans are exceptional fans, huge admiration for them, even in Croker they will evenly split us in the ground. One of the best I experienced was in the Neller a couple of years ago Vs Kilkenny in Hurling , the Neller in special you can breath on the players necks, going from memory I'd also call on 13 semi between us, special game and atmosphere, 11 final special to, last year and the 17 final all stand out.
On Clones did you ever come across the farmer who opens his field for parking for a fiver the Dublin side of Clones, he's a gas man I had a sambo and a cup of tea with him our last league game down there, great craic he was telling me guides all the BMWs to the muckiest part of the field, watches them bury themselves with the rear wheel drive for five mins on the way out, then rescues them with his tractor via another great fuel fiver! ;)" PUC already has corporate part of ground and all big modern grounds should have some corporate seats/boxes in this day and age.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 13/11/2020 23:40:32
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Replying To KillingFields: "PUC already has corporate part of ground and all big modern grounds should have some corporate seats/boxes in this day and age." Think it has premium seating KillingFields don't think it has corporate boxes.
A 10 yr premium ticket in PUC is 6.5k, in Croke park it's 14.5k.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 14/11/2020 01:00:42
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