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I am sure this topic has been posted before. Think it has too be done just thinking wouldn't it be better to run the clubs first this way an in form player with his club could get a look with the county. If the county season goes first they will be picking teams off the form of a player from the previous year.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 183 - 05/11/2020 14:35:07
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Replying To gatha: "I am sure this topic has been posted before. Think it has too be done just thinking wouldn't it be better to run the clubs first this way an in form player with his club could get a look with the county. If the county season goes first they will be picking teams off the form of a player from the previous year." I thought that the club season worked well this year before the inter-County season. Also thought it acted as a great curtain raiser for the county games. Although I do see how the idea of going to all Ireland games in the depths of winter might not fly after this year.
DL_Man (Donegal) - Posts: 89 - 05/11/2020 14:42:27
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Replying To gatha: "I am sure this topic has been posted before. Think it has too be done just thinking wouldn't it be better to run the clubs first this way an in form player with his club could get a look with the county. If the county season goes first they will be picking teams off the form of a player from the previous year." I think the split season is a very good idea, clubs first, you get to see which players are in form and maybe lads who weren't considered before get a look in,
it then it builds up nicely to the Championship, the knockout Championship is brilliant in one way and too severe in another, the likes of Tyrone now if there was a backdoor would still go a long way,
the leagues are a bit meaningless and the Provincial system isn't working, the only really competitive province is Ulster and to a lesser extent Connacht.
There have been various proposals over the years, I'm not sure how to fix it, the GAA want lots of big games for tv as well.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1076 - 05/11/2020 14:58:26
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "I think the split season is a very good idea, clubs first, you get to see which players are in form and maybe lads who weren't considered before get a look in,
it then it builds up nicely to the Championship, the knockout Championship is brilliant in one way and too severe in another, the likes of Tyrone now if there was a backdoor would still go a long way,
the leagues are a bit meaningless and the Provincial system isn't working, the only really competitive province is Ulster and to a lesser extent Connacht.
There have been various proposals over the years, I'm not sure how to fix it, the GAA want lots of big games for tv as well." you have ranted on another thread about keeping the integrity of the league and here you say it is meaningless. you must change your opinions like the wind. As for Ulster being competitive that is a joke- there are only two teams in it- Donegal and Tyrone- rest are division two, three and four. we keep hearing about the competitive Ulster championship- it's a smokescreen. If it is so competitive why were more teams not in division one??? And the two teams that I have mentioned that are in any way competitive haven't come near winning an Allireland in the past seven years so can hardly be called competitive!!!!!
foneyforme (Leitrim) - Posts: 143 - 05/11/2020 15:09:52
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Replying To foneyforme: "you have ranted on another thread about keeping the integrity of the league and here you say it is meaningless. you must change your opinions like the wind. As for Ulster being competitive that is a joke- there are only two teams in it- Donegal and Tyrone- rest are division two, three and four. we keep hearing about the competitive Ulster championship- it's a smokescreen. If it is so competitive why were more teams not in division one??? And the two teams that I have mentioned that are in any way competitive haven't come near winning an Allireland in the past seven years so can hardly be called competitive!!!!!" Monaghan are also in Division 1.. They are there the last 6 years. Armagh in Division 1 next year.
They might not at the level of Donegal and Tyrone but are in Division 1
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2216 - 05/11/2020 15:19:46
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Replying To FoolsGold: "Monaghan are also in Division 1.. They are there the last 6 years. Armagh in Division 1 next year.
They might not at the level of Donegal and Tyrone but are in Division 1" And a division three team beat Monaghan this year!!
foneyforme (Leitrim) - Posts: 143 - 05/11/2020 15:24:21
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It shows the competitive nature of championship. Monaghan always give the bigger team a game in the league
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2216 - 05/11/2020 15:33:34
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I 100% agree with the split season but the taskforce has recommended it in the wrong order. If the rhetoric of the GAA is to put the club first then the club season has to happen first and then lead into the intercounty season.
The taskforces reasoning for playing the intercounty season first doesn't stack up. They say there would be an issue around playing provincial club championships so it would lead to county finals having to be played as early as May.
Can there not be a discussion around whether clubs would be willing to sacrifice the provincial club championships if it guaranteed the club season first?
They also use the excuse that non-championship club competitions are unlikely to thrive once club teams have exited the championship. For me the main reason that non-championship club competitions aren't thriving is because inter county players are not available to play in these games. By having the club season first the inter-county players would be available to participate in the club leagues.
How they recommend the intercounty season lasting up to the end of July i.e 7 months of the year for players who make up only 2 or 3 % of the playing population doesn't make sense. The ratio should be different i.e 1/3 of the year for intercounty and 2/3s for the club season.
This is how I would like the season to be :
January and February for colleges and schools competitions.
The club season to run from March until the August bank holiday weekend. Each county should run their leagues first and then their championships with the championship finals to be completed no later than the August bank holiday.
The intercounty season to start on the 3rd weekend of August and run for 13 weeks. To complete the championship in this timeframe I would abolish the presason/leagues and provincial championships and run 1 competition as detailed below.
My view is that this competition needs to be split into a senior all-Ireland and an intermediate all-Ireland. The senior all-Ireland to comprise of the 20 top teams from the league split into 4 groups of 5. The remaining 12 teams split into 2 groups of six would make up the intermediate all-Ireland. See below for how I split the groups based on league positions this year and also trying to keep some local rivalry.
Senior championship
Each team gets 8 games - 4 games against teams in your division (2 home and 2 away), 3 games against the teams who finished in the same position as you from the other 3 divisions from prior year and 1 game randomly drawn. Total of 4 home and 4 away games for everyone.
Knockout - 8 teams qualify - 4 group winners and the next 4 teams with the best records. Top 2 group winners with best record straight to semi final. Remaining 2 group winners into quarter final. Other 4 teams play-off into preliminary quarter finals.
Relegation - bottom team in each division play relegation semi. losers playoff in relegation final to determine who gets relegated to Intermediate.
Would take 13 weekends to complete - 9 for group stages (1 week break after game 4) and 4 weekends for knockout. Would be weighted against teams who did well the prior year as they would have to play 3 harder games against teams from the other 3 divisions.
Senior
East South West North
Dublin Cork Mayo Tyrone
Meath Laois Roscommon Armagh
Kildare Kerry Westmeath Derry
Cavan Clare Donegal Monaghan
Down Galway Longford Fermanagh
Intermediate Championship
Each team gets 8 games - 5 games against teams in your division, 1 game against the team who finished in the same position as you from the other division from prior year and 2 games randomly drawn. Total of 4 home and 4 away games for everyone.
Knockout - 6 teams qualify - 2 group winners and the next 4 teams with the best records. 2 group winners straight to semi final. Remaining 4 teams into quarter final.
It would take 12 weekends to complete - 9 for group stages (1 week break after game 4) and 3 weekends for knockout.
Intermediate
East West
Wexford Sligo
Waterford Limerick
London Tippearary
Wicklow Offaly
Louth Carlow
Antrim Leitrim
mightymhi (Meath) - Posts: 11 - 05/11/2020 18:32:10
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Good thread.
I have to agree with the OP, I think they've got the season's the wrong way around.
I think you could have something along the lines of.
February to June: Club competitions.
July, August, September, October: Intercounty season
November and December Provincial and All Ireland club championships.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 07/11/2020 07:03:21
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It's only a split season for the county players. When they did play club for April a lot of the county men were minding themselves and only going through the motions with their clubs. This was especially true in counties were club league was the priority in April as opposed to club championship. If you play club before the intercounty season you run a bit of that risk again.
The reality is that all counties will start their club league around April and play without their county men until either August for the all ireland finalists or when the county us knocked out. Club players will have a clear league schedule and guaranteed games and think that is one of the biggest gripe of the club player. I would though think it very important that squad county players that are not getting a game with the county be allowed to play club. There can't be much joy in being 30th player on a county player and not playing any meaningful football.
It will be club championship that will start in August and for the more elite counties like Dublin, mayo, kerry it will be mid august. The chaps coming back from county will have a free run at it with no pressure from the county team.
The county club championship will have to be complete by mid Oct with provisional club from end of October/ Nov with the all ireland club series in December. The provisional and all ireland club championship is a very vibrant competition with the senior, intermediate and junior.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 336 - 07/11/2020 10:46:08
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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32: "It's only a split season for the county players. When they did play club for April a lot of the county men were minding themselves and only going through the motions with their clubs. This was especially true in counties were club league was the priority in April as opposed to club championship. If you play club before the intercounty season you run a bit of that risk again.
The reality is that all counties will start their club league around April and play without their county men until either August for the all ireland finalists or when the county us knocked out. Club players will have a clear league schedule and guaranteed games and think that is one of the biggest gripe of the club player. I would though think it very important that squad county players that are not getting a game with the county be allowed to play club. There can't be much joy in being 30th player on a county player and not playing any meaningful football.
It will be club championship that will start in August and for the more elite counties like Dublin, mayo, kerry it will be mid august. The chaps coming back from county will have a free run at it with no pressure from the county team.
The county club championship will have to be complete by mid Oct with provisional club from end of October/ Nov with the all ireland club series in December. The provisional and all ireland club championship is a very vibrant competition with the senior, intermediate and junior." Fair point. Certainly club leagues would be better in advance of club championships also.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 07/11/2020 11:23:02
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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32: "It's only a split season for the county players. When they did play club for April a lot of the county men were minding themselves and only going through the motions with their clubs. This was especially true in counties were club league was the priority in April as opposed to club championship. If you play club before the intercounty season you run a bit of that risk again.
The reality is that all counties will start their club league around April and play without their county men until either August for the all ireland finalists or when the county us knocked out. Club players will have a clear league schedule and guaranteed games and think that is one of the biggest gripe of the club player. I would though think it very important that squad county players that are not getting a game with the county be allowed to play club. There can't be much joy in being 30th player on a county player and not playing any meaningful football.
It will be club championship that will start in August and for the more elite counties like Dublin, mayo, kerry it will be mid august. The chaps coming back from county will have a free run at it with no pressure from the county team.
The county club championship will have to be complete by mid Oct with provisional club from end of October/ Nov with the all ireland club series in December. The provisional and all ireland club championship is a very vibrant competition with the senior, intermediate and junior." I see your point about the club All-Ireland championship. It would be hard to start that after a 3 month break for the Championship. I don't think any county player playing for their club goes through the motions. If they did I wouldn't pick them on a county team. I have seen players with little nagging injuries sit out club games that didn't mean anything. I have also seen county players sit out league games when the weather was bad. After watching a good few club games this year every county player I saw gave everything they had for the club. Would it not be better for the club to have their best players fully fit and raring to go at the beginning of the year. I think nearly everyone dreams about playing for the county. Under the present set up and playing the All-Ireland Championship first, the only way to make a Senior County team is to play minor and U-20. A lot of the great Kilkenny team didn't play under age and some that did play were only subs. They played well for their clubs and got called in to the county team.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 183 - 07/11/2020 12:17:40
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It's a done deal. The yes men at Congress will give the top table what they want. They always do.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5166 - 07/11/2020 19:22:43
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Replying To gatha: "I see your point about the club All-Ireland championship. It would be hard to start that after a 3 month break for the Championship. I don't think any county player playing for their club goes through the motions. If they did I wouldn't pick them on a county team. I have seen players with little nagging injuries sit out club games that didn't mean anything. I have also seen county players sit out league games when the weather was bad. After watching a good few club games this year every county player I saw gave everything they had for the club. Would it not be better for the club to have their best players fully fit and raring to go at the beginning of the year. I think nearly everyone dreams about playing for the county. Under the present set up and playing the All-Ireland Championship first, the only way to make a Senior County team is to play minor and U-20. A lot of the great Kilkenny team didn't play under age and some that did play were only subs. They played well for their clubs and got called in to the county team." It was more the less important fixtures i was referring to when I mentioned going through the motions. That was definitely happening with the April for club for counties who only focused on their club league. I've no doubt players would be fully at it for a championship match.
Though it is interesting that ballymun kickhams who give a lot of players to the dublin county team were able to win their club championship this year. They seem to be quite hindered though hopefully with the extra 6 weeks or so teams like that will be able to put their best foot forward in the club championships. I'd thought initially it was end of July when all irelands would happen but its mud July which is better.
If you were to swap it and try to finish it the club player will end up finishing the season much earlier and would have to start in the miserable months of jan/feb. To me it will still be an overall better fit better with county finishing before club championship.
The good club player still has the avenue of performing for the club and making the break through the next year. The immediate jump from club to county is getting harder with all the conditioning involved and the difference in standard. Though you certainly want to keep the door open on the club.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 336 - 08/11/2020 08:47:43
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