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Replying To gatha: "What is the proper way?" As KillingFields said you'd do it at a natural break not while someone is bearing down on goals or in the middle of a scoring attack, etc.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1082 - 05/11/2020 19:52:20
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Replying To Trump2020: "As KillingFields said you'd do it at a natural break not while someone is bearing down on goals or in the middle of a scoring attack, etc." Obviously you are not going to do it when someone is bearing down on goal. My problem with it is a team could have another team on the ropes, everyone knows Football and Hurling are games where momentum plays a big part. When you stop the game you are a lot of times killing the momentum one team may have built up.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 183 - 05/11/2020 21:17:10
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Replying To KillingFields: "The use of cameras aids the officials and isnt putting any decisions in the hands of a tv crew. This aids the officials do their job. They do get far more right than wrong and this investment helps do that even more. It does take time but would you rather a game takes longer to be played and correct decisions are made or mistakes to be made that could be solved quite easily through the addition of technology?" The slippery slope is where does reviewable plays stop. Is it just for possible red cards? Is it for ordinary fouls that are missed? The NFL and other sports only review certain plays, which always causes problems. When something is shown where the referee missed a call and they come back with that play is not reviewable the supporters go off the wall. So I ask you how many and what types of plays do you think should be reviewed? Also every referee has his or her own style that is the same in all sports. If there is an Official looking at a monitor he or she will also have their own opinion as to what should be called and what shouldn't so no matter what you do it won't be full proof.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 183 - 05/11/2020 21:28:29
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Replying To KillingFields: "The use of cameras aids the officials and isnt putting any decisions in the hands of a tv crew. This aids the officials do their job. They do get far more right than wrong and this investment helps do that even more. It does take time but would you rather a game takes longer to be played and correct decisions are made or mistakes to be made that could be solved quite easily through the addition of technology?" Again I need to know what you expectation of cameras is. Is it to assist officiating during the game only ? Or do you want t.v. coverage to go back and review a play, or score, or foul that was called or not during the game and have a decision made or reversed latter from that viewing. If it is the latter you better start reviewing the whole game and not selected incidents. There is a big difference in how you want to proceed. I believe when you start taking the decisions out of the hands of the officials in charge of the game you are going down a slippery slope.
You also think that this technology is infallible which I am quiet familiar with. Again in hockey the off ice officials were using the technology by slowing down the frames to look at an incident. Well it turns out this distorts their perception of what occurred and wrongful suspensions. Now they have to make their analysis based on the speed of the occurrence.They have a list of what can be reviewed and want can't and that's controversial. Hurling and hockey are very similar in ways. Speed, a stick, hits, helmets, and physical contact.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 979 - 05/11/2020 23:00:26
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I get what people are saying but for me if tbe video ref is given free reign it will be a disaster. There has to be a limit to the number of times the video ref can be used.
Therefore by having a monitor pitch side the ref on the field can make the decision. There is no requirement for a dedicated video ref. Let the ref on the pitch decide when to go across for a look. And it makes sense to give both managers 2 challenges. They can get any play reviewed but if they are wrong they lose a challenge. Its simple stuff. VAR is dire but only because its applied incorrectly. Take the video ref out of it completely. They arent required..
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1323 - 06/11/2020 09:51:51
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Predictions, Galway and Limerick to win. I think KK have a slightly better chance than Waterford providing we learn from the second half collapse against Dublin. If not, Galway will win handy (7-8 points job).
Waterford obvs much improved on last year (although not difficult as they were abysmal last year) but I think Limerick are a serious outfit and will be too good for them. Limerick by 7/8 points also.
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1112 - 06/11/2020 13:08:16
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As KillingFields said you'd do it at a natural break not while someone is bearing down on goals or in the middle of a scoring attack, etc.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1045 - 05/11/2020 19:52:20Exactly. Like other sports. Its going to be checking scores/potential fouls when there would be a break in play be it a line ball, puck out etc
Obviously you are not going to do it when someone is bearing down on goal. My problem with it is a team could have another team on the ropes, everyone knows Football and Hurling are games where momentum plays a big part. When you stop the game you are a lot of times killing the momentum one team may have built up.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 151 - 05/11/2020 21:17:10You are not going to kill momentum if you do have a check. We are talking about a very short amount of time
The slippery slope is where does reviewable plays stop. Is it just for possible red cards? Is it for ordinary fouls that are missed? The NFL and other sports only review certain plays, which always causes problems. When something is shown where the referee missed a call and they come back with that play is not reviewable the supporters go off the wall. So I ask you how many and what types of plays do you think should be reviewed? Also every referee has his or her own style that is the same in all sports. If there is an Official looking at a monitor he or she will also have their own opinion as to what should be called and what shouldn't so no matter what you do it won't be full proof.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 151 - 05/11/2020 21:28:29 There isnt any slippery slope and you have the central council etc just deciding the criteria that they would have for the video ref. You are not going to go back for all mistakes a ref would make. dont be silly.
Again I need to know what you expectation of cameras is. Is it to assist officiating during the game only ? Or do you want t.v. coverage to go back and review a play, or score, or foul that was called or not during the game and have a decision made or reversed latter from that viewing. If it is the latter you better start reviewing the whole game and not selected incidents. There is a big difference in how you want to proceed. I believe when you start taking the decisions out of the hands of the officials in charge of the game you are going down a slippery slope.
You also think that this technology is infallible which I am quiet familiar with. Again in hockey the off ice officials were using the technology by slowing down the frames to look at an incident. Well it turns out this distorts their perception of what occurred and wrongful suspensions. Now they have to make their analysis based on the speed of the occurrence.They have a list of what can be reviewed and want can't and that's controversial. Hurling and hockey are very similar in ways. Speed, a stick, hits, helmets, and physical contact.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 922 - 05/11/2020 23:00:26 You are assisting the officials on the pitch. That is a good thing
I get what people are saying but for me if tbe video ref is given free reign it will be a disaster. There has to be a limit to the number of times the video ref can be used.
Therefore by having a monitor pitch side the ref on the field can make the decision. There is no requirement for a dedicated video ref. Let the ref on the pitch decide when to go across for a look. And it makes sense to give both managers 2 challenges. They can get any play reviewed but if they are wrong they lose a challenge. Its simple stuff. VAR is dire but only because its applied incorrectly. Take the video ref out of it completely. They arent required..
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1294 - 06/11/2020 09:51:51 the video ref wouldnt be given free reign and there shouldnt be a limit to number of times they can be used. it isnt near the same as tennis with its challenges.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 06/11/2020 13:14:25
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Replying To gatha: "Obviously you are not going to do it when someone is bearing down on goal. My problem with it is a team could have another team on the ropes, everyone knows Football and Hurling are games where momentum plays a big part. When you stop the game you are a lot of times killing the momentum one team may have built up." Fair point but that can ALREADY happen through someone faking an injury, taking a tad too long with the puck out, slow substitutions, etc.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1082 - 06/11/2020 14:19:19
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Replying To Trump2020: "Fair point but that can ALREADY happen through someone faking an injury, taking a tad too long with the puck out, slow substitutions, etc." Yes faking it is a problem. I can relate to 4 separate incidents that we were the victims of this. In fairness to our arch rivals across the bridge they would and could dish it out but also take it. I can not recall one incident where they tried to get an opponent sent off but you are welcome to fact check me.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 979 - 06/11/2020 16:31:20
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Replying To Canuck: "Yes faking it is a problem. I can relate to 4 separate incidents that we were the victims of this. In fairness to our arch rivals across the bridge they would and could dish it out but also take it. I can not recall one incident where they tried to get an opponent sent off but you are welcome to fact check me." I'll take your word for it but my main point is that delays can come in many forms to stop momentum if needed.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1082 - 06/11/2020 19:28:02
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