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Replying To wexico15: "If galway win it will the 1st time kilkenny lost 3 leinster finals in a row sense 1919-21" Kilkenny's consistency is probably unrivaled in all of sports. Amazing.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1082 - 03/11/2020 23:48:30
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I dont think we can beat Galway,I was very impressed with them against Wexford even though Wexford werent up to last years standard,I think Limerick will be too good for Waterford but I wouldnt write Waterford off though,on the games so far Limerick and Galway would be my bets for the AI,the thing that might favour any of the remaining teams is the weather,a bad wet day and a slippery sliothar could make a difference in a tight match
mooncat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 485 - 03/11/2020 23:53:33
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Replying To gatha: "Agree 100% if you are going to go to TV review the whole game and there would be a lot more put off or carded. Missed calls are part of the game you have to deal with it and move on. Noel McGrath picked up the ball on Sunday and a goal was scored. Limerick took the call and moved on that's what g00d teams do." I don't see how it would be a bad thing to have an offical watching the tv with a connection to the ref. I don't think he would be analysing every play, just the blatant stuff.
blackspot91 (Limerick) - Posts: 991 - 04/11/2020 00:25:42
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Replying To blackspot91: "I don't see how it would be a bad thing to have an offical watching the tv with a connection to the ref. I don't think he would be analysing every play, just the blatant stuff." i think this is spot on.
the whole country can see austin gleeson hitting a dig off the ball but we dont think the referee should be allowed to see it?
i wouldn't want the game stopped and every play re-watched,for example 2 players jostling should not be reviwed,but if there is an off the ball helmet pull,striking with the hurl,punch,etc i think the 4th official should be able to call the referee and say 'you might want to have a look at this'.
talk to the umpires/linesmen,but if the 4th official has an angle which is of interest it should be within his remit to alert the ref.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3841 - 04/11/2020 09:30:48
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Replying To perfect10: "i think this is spot on.
the whole country can see austin gleeson hitting a dig off the ball but we dont think the referee should be allowed to see it?
i wouldn't want the game stopped and every play re-watched,for example 2 players jostling should not be reviwed,but if there is an off the ball helmet pull,striking with the hurl,punch,etc i think the 4th official should be able to call the referee and say 'you might want to have a look at this'.
talk to the umpires/linesmen,but if the 4th official has an angle which is of interest it should be within his remit to alert the ref." That is the problem where do you stop. Maybe it would have worked in this situation but you are going down a slippery slope. The game is already slowing down with free takers walking 70 or 80 yards to take a free. What should be reviewable? How hard or dirty of a hit are the refs going to look at? It is still up to the Official in the booth watching on tv. If you start looking at this stuff why not disallow the Tipp goal on Sunday where the ball was picked up. If Limerick lost by a point is that not as bad as someone getting hit off the ball. Linesmen and Umpires have the authority to call these things to the ref. That's 7 pair of eyes, that should be enough if they do their jobs. I have watched American sports for years with replay review and quiet often even with replay you are left asking what are they watching because you totally disagree with the decision. For the occasional player who might be caught and put off it is not worth the trade off of slowing the game down or opening thing up for reviewing other parts of the game.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 183 - 04/11/2020 11:11:16
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Replying To gatha: "That is the problem where do you stop. Maybe it would have worked in this situation but you are going down a slippery slope. The game is already slowing down with free takers walking 70 or 80 yards to take a free. What should be reviewable? How hard or dirty of a hit are the refs going to look at? It is still up to the Official in the booth watching on tv. If you start looking at this stuff why not disallow the Tipp goal on Sunday where the ball was picked up. If Limerick lost by a point is that not as bad as someone getting hit off the ball. Linesmen and Umpires have the authority to call these things to the ref. That's 7 pair of eyes, that should be enough if they do their jobs. I have watched American sports for years with replay review and quiet often even with replay you are left asking what are they watching because you totally disagree with the decision. For the occasional player who might be caught and put off it is not worth the trade off of slowing the game down or opening thing up for reviewing other parts of the game." Absolutely it should be used to review the McGrath goal. I think its very easy to define where you 'stop'. There's usually only 2 or 3 major points of contention in a game max. Those are the ones that it should be used for. Either tv or get a second ref. Sure nothing is perfect and we tend to dwell on the strange decisions and not think about all the other times it was beneficial. It works really well in rugby. They often don't even need to review.. you just here the tmo in the refs ear saying 'high tackle there' and the ref immediately calls a penalty and that's it. Is it not at least worth a trial during a league rather than just speculating on how it might have a negative effect.
blackspot91 (Limerick) - Posts: 991 - 04/11/2020 11:58:31
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Replying To perfect10: "i think this is spot on.
the whole country can see austin gleeson hitting a dig off the ball but we dont think the referee should be allowed to see it?
i wouldn't want the game stopped and every play re-watched,for example 2 players jostling should not be reviwed,but if there is an off the ball helmet pull,striking with the hurl,punch,etc i think the 4th official should be able to call the referee and say 'you might want to have a look at this'.
talk to the umpires/linesmen,but if the 4th official has an angle which is of interest it should be within his remit to alert the ref." Thats the operative word an OFFICAL not a t.v. commentator. Do we know that Gleeson did not get a similar dig (not excusing him) before he got one just because the t.v. did not see it. So how much is replayed. I can tell you also from hockey that this does not work all the time and often adds more controversy. Did his movement carry him in, did his stick slide up the opponents stick, was it an intentional, ask God,. Was the shot to the head or did the contact him on the shoulder before the head. Was the shot that drove him into the boards from behind or the side and on and on. Of course in some instance it does show clearly but no magic bullet. The most important thing of all is the NHL have their own cameras and do not rely on t.v. coverage. Do we want to turn our games into this and are we willing to put the money up to do it?
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 979 - 04/11/2020 13:48:54
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Replying To blackspot91: "I don't see how it would be a bad thing to have an offical watching the tv with a connection to the ref. I don't think he would be analysing every play, just the blatant stuff." No need for a TV ref. Give the managers 2 calls a game. Let them ask for the manager to have a look at the replay pitch side like American football. If the ref agrees then they keep their 2 goes. No need to have a video ref itching to get involved. It works in NFL
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1323 - 04/11/2020 21:40:11
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Replying To bloodyban: "No need for a TV ref. Give the managers 2 calls a game. Let them ask for the manager to have a look at the replay pitch side like American football. If the ref agrees then they keep their 2 goes. No need to have a video ref itching to get involved. It works in NFL" It works in the NFL but the NFL is a different game then Hurling. The NFL is a game of stops and starts there is up to a 30 second stoppage between every play. Hurling is a fluid game. One of the great appeals of Hurling is the non stop end to end play. Reviewing plays will only slow the game down. As for a previous poster saying McGrath's goal should be reviewed what other plays should be reviewed that wasn't the only missed call.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 183 - 04/11/2020 22:13:28
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Replying To bloodyban: "No need for a TV ref. Give the managers 2 calls a game. Let them ask for the manager to have a look at the replay pitch side like American football. If the ref agrees then they keep their 2 goes. No need to have a video ref itching to get involved. It works in NFL" Nice idea combined with the TV. So if the manager wants to contest a decision, they can use tv.
blackspot91 (Limerick) - Posts: 991 - 05/11/2020 05:10:00
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Replying To gatha: "It works in the NFL but the NFL is a different game then Hurling. The NFL is a game of stops and starts there is up to a 30 second stoppage between every play. Hurling is a fluid game. One of the great appeals of Hurling is the non stop end to end play. Reviewing plays will only slow the game down. As for a previous poster saying McGrath's goal should be reviewed what other plays should be reviewed that wasn't the only missed call." Its used in tennis too.
I would say anything the tv official sees as blatant, he can call up or bring to refs attention. It doesn't have to be everything or nothing. If there are 10 wrong decisions in a match but the tv overturns 3 of them, isn't it worth it?
blackspot91 (Limerick) - Posts: 991 - 05/11/2020 05:11:57
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Hurling is a fast end to end game. When a score is awarded or disallowed that decision influences the tempo of the game. Just look at last years championship, KK and Wexford nice draw oh that knocks Galway out of the Championship. That hurt was partially put right last Saturday and I expect to see that hurt when Galway meets KK next weekend.
heartbroken (Galway) - Posts: 356 - 05/11/2020 07:51:36
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The waterbreak has turned out to be great. Hurling should keep it posted Covid
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1323 - 05/11/2020 09:32:53
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Replying To bloodyban: "The waterbreak has turned out to be great. Hurling should keep it posted Covid" You prefer 4 quarters then 2 halves. I don't like people running all over the field with water bottles but, I don't like how the water break disrupts the flow of the game.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 183 - 05/11/2020 14:29:42
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Replying To gatha: "You prefer 4 quarters then 2 halves. I don't like people running all over the field with water bottles but, I don't like how the water break disrupts the flow of the game." If done properly it needn't disrupt the flow.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1082 - 05/11/2020 15:54:43
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Replying To Trump2020: "If done properly it needn't disrupt the flow." What is the proper way?
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 183 - 05/11/2020 16:40:33
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What is the proper way?
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 149 - 05/11/2020 16:40:33Have the break at a natural break in play be it when the ball goes out for a line ball/puck out etc and if that means the time has continued 2/3/4 minutes then so be it
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 05/11/2020 17:16:28
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Agree 100% if you are going to go to TV review the whole game and there would be a lot more put off or carded. Missed calls are part of the game you have to deal with it and move on. Noel McGrath picked up the ball on Sunday and a goal was scored. Limerick took the call and moved on that's what g00d teams do.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 149 - 03/11/2020 11:31:05 Of course missed calls are part of the game but you cant just ignore technology because of that.
i think this is spot on.
the whole country can see austin gleeson hitting a dig off the ball but we dont think the referee should be allowed to see it?
i wouldn't want the game stopped and every play re-watched,for example 2 players jostling should not be reviwed,but if there is an off the ball helmet pull,striking with the hurl,punch,etc i think the 4th official should be able to call the referee and say 'you might want to have a look at this'.
talk to the umpires/linesmen,but if the 4th official has an angle which is of interest it should be within his remit to alert the ref.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3787 - 04/11/2020 09:30:48Why the 4th official? Surely they have enough to do with the sidelines and teams coaches/subs etc. It should be a different designated official who is the TMO/video ref. It should be for clear fouls and not simply any single incident that breaks the rules.
That is the problem where do you stop. Maybe it would have worked in this situation but you are going down a slippery slope. The game is already slowing down with free takers walking 70 or 80 yards to take a free. What should be reviewable? How hard or dirty of a hit are the refs going to look at? It is still up to the Official in the booth watching on tv. If you start looking at this stuff why not disallow the Tipp goal on Sunday where the ball was picked up. If Limerick lost by a point is that not as bad as someone getting hit off the ball. Linesmen and Umpires have the authority to call these things to the ref. That's 7 pair of eyes, that should be enough if they do their jobs. I have watched American sports for years with replay review and quiet often even with replay you are left asking what are they watching because you totally disagree with the decision. For the occasional player who might be caught and put off it is not worth the trade off of slowing the game down or opening thing up for reviewing other parts of the game.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 149 - 04/11/2020 11:11:16what slippery slope exactly are we going down? With technology in play there will of course still be mistakes made but they do far more good than bad and help the game
Thats the operative word an OFFICAL not a t.v. commentator. Do we know that Gleeson did not get a similar dig (not excusing him) before he got one just because the t.v. did not see it. So how much is replayed. I can tell you also from hockey that this does not work all the time and often adds more controversy. Did his movement carry him in, did his stick slide up the opponents stick, was it an intentional, ask God,. Was the shot to the head or did the contact him on the shoulder before the head. Was the shot that drove him into the boards from behind or the side and on and on. Of course in some instance it does show clearly but no magic bullet. The most important thing of all is the NHL have their own cameras and do not rely on t.v. coverage. Do we want to turn our games into this and are we willing to put the money up to do it?
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 920 - 04/11/2020 13:48:54 TV cameras would have to be used. What would you propose? Have the GAA have their own camera system in place just for foul play? What a waste...
No need for a TV ref. Give the managers 2 calls a game. Let them ask for the manager to have a look at the replay pitch side like American football. If the ref agrees then they keep their 2 goes. No need to have a video ref itching to get involved. It works in NFL
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1293 - 04/11/2020 21:40:11Giving the coaches 2 calls isnt really a good thing. Now that would be a waste. Leave it to the officials and then its far more on the merits of the decision at hand.
You prefer 4 quarters then 2 halves. I don't like people running all over the field with water bottles but, I don't like how the water break disrupts the flow of the game.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 149 - 05/11/2020 14:29:42A water break means a better free flowing game then having people going all over the pitch throughout the game...
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 05/11/2020 17:24:24
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Reply to Killing Fields:
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 920 - 04/11/2020 13:48:54 TV cameras would have to be used. What would you propose? Have the GAA have their own camera system in place just for foul play? What a waste...
I am not suggesting any cameras be used. Just explaining to you how cameras work. The NHL use t.v. cameras but use their own cameras also for clarity. Reason ? T.V. camera are following play. Static cameras are angled for pin point accuracy. An example to use. Remember the goal that Tipp got when Gleeson did not cross the goal line. In that instance the fixed camera would have been defining.
Again I am not advocating for any cameras. I think you missed my point that replay is not fool proof and putting foul play, scoring decisions etc. in the hands of a t.v. crew is just wrong. There are a team of officials on the field let them do their job. They get a lot more right than wrong. My opinion is any investment for hurling in replay is waste. moment loss. speed of the game and ultimately too high a percentage of inaccuracies.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 979 - 05/11/2020 18:50:31
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Replying To Canuck: "Reply to Killing Fields:
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 920 - 04/11/2020 13:48:54 TV cameras would have to be used. What would you propose? Have the GAA have their own camera system in place just for foul play? What a waste...
I am not suggesting any cameras be used. Just explaining to you how cameras work. The NHL use t.v. cameras but use their own cameras also for clarity. Reason ? T.V. camera are following play. Static cameras are angled for pin point accuracy. An example to use. Remember the goal that Tipp got when Gleeson did not cross the goal line. In that instance the fixed camera would have been defining.
Again I am not advocating for any cameras. I think you missed my point that replay is not fool proof and putting foul play, scoring decisions etc. in the hands of a t.v. crew is just wrong. There are a team of officials on the field let them do their job. They get a lot more right than wrong. My opinion is any investment for hurling in replay is waste. moment loss. speed of the game and ultimately too high a percentage of inaccuracies." The use of cameras aids the officials and isnt putting any decisions in the hands of a tv crew. This aids the officials do their job. They do get far more right than wrong and this investment helps do that even more. It does take time but would you rather a game takes longer to be played and correct decisions are made or mistakes to be made that could be solved quite easily through the addition of technology?
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 05/11/2020 19:33:10
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