National Forum

Knockout Championship.

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Well id like to thank Donegal for that defeat. I was absolutely devastated at the time, but in hindsight i truly believe we would not have done the 5 n a row if we had of won. It forced Jim Gavin to go back to the drawing board. He knew from that day forward you cant always win playing all out attacking football. You need to be able to mix it up with Plan A, Plan B, Plan C etc, etc. Truth be told our tactics were crazy that day.

Sign of a great manager though, to put your stubbornness behind you and identify where you went wrong and come up with a new and better plan. Funnily enough, its something i feel Peter Keane has failed to do this year. And they got punished by Cork because of it.

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1922 - 09/11/2020 12:23:35    2306750

Link

Replying To ifindoubt:  "The system should be 8 groups of 4 .Then straight into knockout football.Either top 8 go through Quarter finals or 16 teams go through to knock out stages.

Get rid of the provisionals,Out dated at this stage.MOVE ON !!!"
Dont get rid of the provincial titles. Theyre far from outdated
Get rid of pre season tournaments and make league longer and have provincial and all ireland cups straight knockout in between weeks of the league.
Getting rid of most competitions and the only chance many sides have of winning something would be crazy

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 09/11/2020 12:36:36    2306757

Link

Replying To ConnollyDub:  "Well id like to thank Donegal for that defeat. I was absolutely devastated at the time, but in hindsight i truly believe we would not have done the 5 n a row if we had of won. It forced Jim Gavin to go back to the drawing board. He knew from that day forward you cant always win playing all out attacking football. You need to be able to mix it up with Plan A, Plan B, Plan C etc, etc. Truth be told our tactics were crazy that day.

Sign of a great manager though, to put your stubbornness behind you and identify where you went wrong and come up with a new and better plan. Funnily enough, its something i feel Peter Keane has failed to do this year. And they got punished by Cork because of it."
PK and his group focussed on one thing this year and that was how to beat the Dubs.
It has become an obsession with them.

Completely took Cork for granted in my opinion.

Donegal looked no further than Tyrone, and Mayo looked no further than the Rossies.

Anything can happen in knockout competition... and with games played so close together.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3309 - 09/11/2020 12:43:43    2306761

Link

Replying To Fionn:  "PK and his group focussed on one thing this year and that was how to beat the Dubs.
It has become an obsession with them.

Completely took Cork for granted in my opinion.

Donegal looked no further than Tyrone, and Mayo looked no further than the Rossies.

Anything can happen in knockout competition... and with games played so close together."
I don't agree Fionn. We in Kerry always respect Cork and when the public write them off we get more wary of them. That's why PK panicked and showed Cork too much respect and picked a half back and midfielder in our forward line instead of using firepower. It was nt over confidence it was the opposite IMO. Kerry never rake Cork for granted but should ve played with more gung ho. Anyway we all wise in the end but that's my viewpoint right or wrong.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 09/11/2020 13:04:03    2306778

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I don't agree Fionn. We in Kerry always respect Cork and when the public write them off we get more wary of them. That's why PK panicked and showed Cork too much respect and picked a half back and midfielder in our forward line instead of using firepower. It was nt over confidence it was the opposite IMO. Kerry never rake Cork for granted but should ve played with more gung ho. Anyway we all wise in the end but that's my viewpoint right or wrong."
Ok agree to disagree...

PK's sole focus this year was on how to beat Dublin - it backfired imo.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3309 - 09/11/2020 13:16:40    2306790

Link

I love knockout football. The provincials will never go so any ideas outside of them are pointless debating. An expanded league of 3 divisions would be great imo. Then straight into knockout championships. The qualifiers killed the provincials. Rather than throwing everything at the province teams were looking for a run in the qualifiers to progress.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1308 - 09/11/2020 13:30:47    2306798

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I don't agree Fionn. We in Kerry always respect Cork and when the public write them off we get more wary of them. That's why PK panicked and showed Cork too much respect and picked a half back and midfielder in our forward line instead of using firepower. It was nt over confidence it was the opposite IMO. Kerry never rake Cork for granted but should ve played with more gung ho. Anyway we all wise in the end but that's my viewpoint right or wrong."
I'd agree. I thought Kerry played tentatively yesterday and it played into Cork's hands. I had expected Kerry to come out ruthlessly from the start and try to put Cork away early, but as you said, the signs were there from the team selection.
The longer Cork hung in there, the harder it was for Kerry to change the momentum of the game.
Killian Spillane must be wondering what he has to do to get a start. He was by far Kerry's most effective forward yesterday, despite only coming on with 20 minutes left of normal time.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 875 - 09/11/2020 13:30:47    2306799

Link

Replying To Fionn:  "Ok agree to disagree...

PK's sole focus this year was on how to beat Dublin - it backfired imo."
Maybe you ré right Fionn but it's all immaterial now.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 09/11/2020 13:59:54    2306811

Link

Replying To WanPintWin:  "I'd agree. I thought Kerry played tentatively yesterday and it played into Cork's hands. I had expected Kerry to come out ruthlessly from the start and try to put Cork away early, but as you said, the signs were there from the team selection.
The longer Cork hung in there, the harder it was for Kerry to change the momentum of the game.
Killian Spillane must be wondering what he has to do to get a start. He was by far Kerry's most effective forward yesterday, despite only coming on with 20 minutes left of normal time."
Spot onWanpintwin. Lillian Spillane is a natural scorer strong and a lovely footballer. Felt he should ve been on from start. Hope Shane Walsh back to full fitness for yourselves. Where is your midfielder Ciarán Duggan gone?

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 09/11/2020 14:03:07    2306814

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Maybe you ré right Fionn but it's all immaterial now."
Would you stick with him.?

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3309 - 09/11/2020 14:10:03    2306818

Link

The Provincial Championships means so much more this year than they have in the qualifier era. Although 2020 may be remembered as an unconventional championship due to re-formatting, potentially depleted squads, quick turnarounds, teams pulling out, and winter weather, I believe going back to the knockout structure has unearthed a well of excitement that may have previously been lost when it comes to Provincial Championships.

I think it's a pity to see Tyrone and Kerry knocked out after one match, and Galway could potentially join them soon.

Historically speaking, has there been a All-Ireland B Championship for teams knocked out in Provincial Championships, and what kind of support would that have today? I would be very interested to see how Kerry, Tyrone, Roscommon, and whoever may join them would fare against each other in a B competition. I think many people have given up on the qualifier system and Super 8s (there is realistically no chance for distinctly weaker teams to pull off a shock result 2/3 times against 2 provincial champions, lightning rarely strikes twice). Given the chance of winning silverware, I think a B competition would make for more interesting matches than the qualifier series.

SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 195 - 09/11/2020 14:13:39    2306820

Link

Replying To Fionn:  "Would you stick with him.?"
With PK? I don't know. I'm in two minds. I have been critical of his over defensive style. We have class scoring forwards but are using defensive methods instead. Look I know nowadays a team needs workers too but I still want at least 4 scoring forwards. I presume Paul Geaney and James Ó Donoghue were injured as they did nt make panel but Ó Brien and Spillane should ve started. I believe it attack is the best form of defense so if Keane walked I won't be too upset.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 09/11/2020 15:08:32    2306843

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Spot onWanpintwin. Lillian Spillane is a natural scorer strong and a lovely footballer. Felt he should ve been on from start. Hope Shane Walsh back to full fitness for yourselves. Where is your midfielder Ciarán Duggan gone?"
Walsh should be ok, but he'll be a bit short on match fitness. Duggan has had a very bad of time of it with injuries over the past few years unfortunately. He's had a few long-term injuries and we won't see him this year either.
Hopefully he can get through these as he's a fine footballer in an area where we're short of options at the moment.
Sean Powter would be a great inspiration for lads like that. He's been through a lot with injury too and was brilliant yesterday. It was great to see him back and even better than before.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 875 - 09/11/2020 15:21:27    2306847

Link

I was totally against the Back Door system from day 1 and still am now even more so. Imagine the back door being available to Kerry, their next game would be totally different, they would have time to regroup they would most probably have tweaked their approach to the game because they would be playing a team of much lesser traditional rivalry than that of near neighbours Cork, they would be more than likely be playing under a different referee (very important) who has got away with little or no justifiable criticism, they would go from strength to strength. Cork beat Kerry yesterday on the day and good luck to them, Kerry always bring out the best in Cork and vice versa it was Corks turn yesterday and they grabbed it with both hands.

As an aside, the two black cards took a bit of the gloss off Corks win, Kerry's critics were helped in no small way by the same two black cards, some of the insensitive whistle stops by the Tipp. Referee didn't help either, as in no allowances made for the ground conditions. The referee in the Mayo / Roscommon game used his common sense before he blew the whistle.

Personally I never thought it was a shock result, to me it was a 50 / 50 game before a ball was kicked, thats what happens mostly when Kerry and Cork meet, and that's the way it finished up to the last kick of the game.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2161 - 09/11/2020 15:26:05    2306850

Link

Still think 8 groups, 1 from each Division, all neutral venues. Top 2 qualify for knockout, all neutral venues until Semi and Final. Bottom 2 could play for a B Final if need be. Either way lower teams get to play at least 3 matches.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 276 - 09/11/2020 15:27:48    2306852

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "With PK? I don't know. I'm in two minds. I have been critical of his over defensive style. We have class scoring forwards but are using defensive methods instead. Look I know nowadays a team needs workers too but I still want at least 4 scoring forwards. I presume Paul Geaney and James Ó Donoghue were injured as they did nt make panel but Ó Brien and Spillane should ve started. I believe it attack is the best form of defense so if Keane walked I won't be too upset."
Very honest assessment.
You are spot on re Spillane - comes on as a sub in a tight match like that and gets the scores.
Only kerry insiders know if PG & JOD were injured..

Think the K.CB will give PK another shot at it - but you are correct - he needs to change his tactics.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3309 - 09/11/2020 15:28:23    2306853

Link

Replying To Fionn:  "Very honest assessment.
You are spot on re Spillane - comes on as a sub in a tight match like that and gets the scores.
Only kerry insiders know if PG & JOD were injured..

Think the K.CB will give PK another shot at it - but you are correct - he needs to change his tactics."
Yes Fionn. If he stays on new tactics needed. A team has to play to its best strengths like Dublin and Donegal.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 09/11/2020 15:36:03    2306860

Link

What if we were to shorten the leagues and have a division 1 of 12 teams (2 groups of 6), top two in each group play in League semi finals. It would offer more teams the chance of playing a competitive Football league similar to the NHL.

Keep the Provincial Championships but run them as a straight knockout.
Remove the Qualifiers and once the provincial championships are run off over 5-6 weeks, hold an open draw for the All Ireland series. (Let London play New York to see who the 32nd intercounty team is)

Round of 32
Round of 16
Quarter Finals
Semi
Final

It would give all teams two bites of the cherry and could be run out over 5 weeks, making loads of time for the club action to take place.

Imagine Dublin playing Kerry in the round of 32 and the losers facing the exit door, could open it up for a lower ranked team to have a magical run through the championship.

Cut-throat football is brilliant for the supporters.

butterfly (Meath) - Posts: 83 - 09/11/2020 15:40:17    2306863

Link

Replying To Galwaymaster9:  "Its Mayos year no doubt.. second favourites now"
I hope all keep saying that. Cork get a well merited win yet talk turns to a Dub Mayo final. Of course it is a likely scenario but in one off games with heavy pitches anything is possible.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1730 - 09/11/2020 16:44:28    2306897

Link

Replying To butterfly:  "What if we were to shorten the leagues and have a division 1 of 12 teams (2 groups of 6), top two in each group play in League semi finals. It would offer more teams the chance of playing a competitive Football league similar to the NHL.

Keep the Provincial Championships but run them as a straight knockout.
Remove the Qualifiers and once the provincial championships are run off over 5-6 weeks, hold an open draw for the All Ireland series. (Let London play New York to see who the 32nd intercounty team is)

Round of 32
Round of 16
Quarter Finals
Semi
Final

It would give all teams two bites of the cherry and could be run out over 5 weeks, making loads of time for the club action to take place.

Imagine Dublin playing Kerry in the round of 32 and the losers facing the exit door, could open it up for a lower ranked team to have a magical run through the championship.

Cut-throat football is brilliant for the supporters."
London v New York is a fixture nobody wants to see. The GAA have already said that they want to keep an annual fixture for an Irish team in NY.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 09/11/2020 17:16:49    2306913

Link