National Forum

Knockout Championship.

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


What a game between Cavan and Monaghan. Despite the terrible conditions had everything, extra time, point scoring goalkeepers, a great Cavan comeback. we nearly had our first championship penalty decider. Both sets of players really wanted to win. They knew there was no second chance on offer. Adds to the argument of those who favour a knockout championship.

Marooning (Westmeath) - Posts: 14 - 31/10/2020 15:55:27    2303381

Link

Straight knockout competitions are fine if used along with league competitions played through the year etc like other sports.
Going back to straight knockout no back door just will see even more players head to states in normal summers etc
Straight knockout also doesnt help players in terms of amount they put in. They deserve more than straight knockout championship

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 31/10/2020 17:07:52    2303441

Link

Don't agree with straight knockout to determine the best team. A Champions league style format maybe but I think the Blackfoot has added more, raised the profile and generally benefited the GAA. Fact is the longer more teams are involved the greater the interest.

Most people loose interest when their own county is out and revert to focus on their club.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10339 - 31/10/2020 17:42:22    2303467

Link

Grand for this winter but we all know its a one off. Hopefully the group stage for the last 8 is scrapped from next year, knock out All Ireland quarter final is the way to go.

Yondu (UK) - Posts: 335 - 31/10/2020 17:51:56    2303478

Link

Would it have been a worse game, if Monaghan were in the back door after the defeat?

Don't think it being knock out had any bearing the game to be honest.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 31/10/2020 18:03:54    2303491

Link

Replying To yew_tree:  "Don't agree with straight knockout to determine the best team. A Champions league style format maybe but I think the Blackfoot has added more, raised the profile and generally benefited the GAA. Fact is the longer more teams are involved the greater the interest.

Most people loose interest when their own county is out and revert to focus on their club."
The league format is the best way to determine the best team over a season with everyone playing at home and away over the summer months. More games less gaps and the best teams playing one another all the time.
Best team gets the most points.
The GAA are caught in the tradition trap and cannot move to the better format.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1647 - 31/10/2020 18:09:37    2303495

Link

Replying To TheUsername:  "Would it have been a worse game, if Monaghan were in the back door after the defeat?

Don't think it being knock out had any bearing the game to be honest."
It does make the win even sweeter tho ;)

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4135 - 31/10/2020 18:21:11    2303500

Link

Sure look, it's just a once-off for this year and unlikely to change in the long run but it is interesting to mull over (while digesting my dinner). So I'll ramble a little.

Today's game was always going to have an edge being a local derby. But I do wonder if the pure knockout raises the stakes and it's something in the backs of players' minds that boosts the intensity. For us fans it would heighten the emotions, as the elation and heartbreak are amplified. Giant killings would be real killings. And sure we all love a bit of drama.

Intercounty championship being straight knock out might give more time back to the club game, the backbone of the GAA. Definitely for me this year has emphasised just how important clubs are to their communities and how much it matters. Would love to give the clubs and all they bring the time and space deserved.

Another effect it might have is to reduce the amount of shamateurism, bloated backroom teams, under the table payments etc. If counties know they might just get a couple of games it would cut out some of the need for mercenary managers, GPS trackers, stats men and all that nonsense, as well as reduce the insane demands on players.

But sure it's just pie in the sky. Key point is intercounty is where the money is for the GAA and it's a money-driven organisation. Hard to go back to the old way. And you could say maybe counties cutting their cloth with potentially fewer matches would lead to haves and have-nots. But when they're looking at a second tier, and almost 50% of all football titles since 1887 have been won by just two counties, you could argue that it's already that way.

TheBlackDeath (Cavan) - Posts: 49 - 31/10/2020 19:04:32    2303529

Link

Replying To catch22:  "The league format is the best way to determine the best team over a season with everyone playing at home and away over the summer months. More games less gaps and the best teams playing one another all the time.
Best team gets the most points.
The GAA are caught in the tradition trap and cannot move to the better format."
Group stage provincials is about as close as we will get in hurling. in football I think the league structure is brilliant and as a Limerick fan its much more fun to see us achieve at our own level than a few games in the AI that we know will go nowhere

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 31/10/2020 19:30:14    2303540

Link

On another tread I suggested after league is finished, have 8 groups , 1 from each division. All neutral venues,Top 2 go into open draw last 16 neutral venues until semi final.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 276 - 31/10/2020 19:55:17    2303553

Link

Replying To TheUsername:  "Would it have been a worse game, if Monaghan were in the back door after the defeat?

Don't think it being knock out had any bearing the game to be honest."
With respect, you don't agree with straight knockout to determine the best team,- the overall best team no, but on the day and for the day it does determine the best team, to the vanquished it says hard luck until next year, no second bite at the cherry.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2161 - 31/10/2020 19:56:38    2303555

Link

Love Knockout Championship and always have.

katser (Galway) - Posts: 1058 - 31/10/2020 19:57:11    2303556

Link

Replying To Breezy:  "Group stage provincials is about as close as we will get in hurling. in football I think the league structure is brilliant and as a Limerick fan its much more fun to see us achieve at our own level than a few games in the AI that we know will go nowhere"
League only has 7 games and the hurlers play 10 games minimum. A Tier 2 championship is coming and they should just have 2 tiers of 16 split into 4 groups of 4. Top 2 in each group go into the knockout stages.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 01/11/2020 11:14:57    2303740

Link

Replying To TheBlackDeath:  "Sure look, it's just a once-off for this year and unlikely to change in the long run but it is interesting to mull over (while digesting my dinner). So I'll ramble a little.

Today's game was always going to have an edge being a local derby. But I do wonder if the pure knockout raises the stakes and it's something in the backs of players' minds that boosts the intensity. For us fans it would heighten the emotions, as the elation and heartbreak are amplified. Giant killings would be real killings. And sure we all love a bit of drama.

Intercounty championship being straight knock out might give more time back to the club game, the backbone of the GAA. Definitely for me this year has emphasised just how important clubs are to their communities and how much it matters. Would love to give the clubs and all they bring the time and space deserved.

Another effect it might have is to reduce the amount of shamateurism, bloated backroom teams, under the table payments etc. If counties know they might just get a couple of games it would cut out some of the need for mercenary managers, GPS trackers, stats men and all that nonsense, as well as reduce the insane demands on players.

But sure it's just pie in the sky. Key point is intercounty is where the money is for the GAA and it's a money-driven organisation. Hard to go back to the old way. And you could say maybe counties cutting their cloth with potentially fewer matches would lead to haves and have-nots. But when they're looking at a second tier, and almost 50% of all football titles since 1887 have been won by just two counties, you could argue that it's already that way."
Some good points there, but that would bring us back to the same issue they tried to fix 20 years ago with the introduction of the back-door. Half the teams in the country having only a single championship game every year.
That's just not a good system and would diminish the intercounty game. Lads training seriously for a few months for just one game is hard to justify. Trying to get the balance between a fair system, a reasonable number of games and ensuring they're meaningful is the challenge.
I'm a club first supporter as most are, but we also need a strong intercounty game to keep the GAA strong. The proposed split season is an obvious next step.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 875 - 01/11/2020 12:32:55    2303771

Link

Replying To katser:  "Love Knockout Championship and always have."
When your crowd got straight into the semi finals

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 01/11/2020 12:34:30    2303772

Link

Replying To Rolo2010:  "League only has 7 games and the hurlers play 10 games minimum. A Tier 2 championship is coming and they should just have 2 tiers of 16 split into 4 groups of 4. Top 2 in each group go into the knockout stages."
A 14 game league and a straight knockout cup would be my dream for the football but it ain't gonna happen any time soon. I would say professionalism is more likely to happen before that

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 01/11/2020 12:36:55    2303773

Link

Replying To yew_tree:  "Don't agree with straight knockout to determine the best team. A Champions league style format maybe but I think the Blackfoot has added more, raised the profile and generally benefited the GAA. Fact is the longer more teams are involved the greater the interest.

Most people loose interest when their own county is out and revert to focus on their club."
You may be correct but its helping to damage club football which should be the main focus of our games. Clubs around the country do not know when club championships finish, or how long they championship is going to be -this year was an exception.
Not sure what you meant by Blackfoot- were they not a Noth American Indian tribe! (dry joke, don't take offence)

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2189 - 01/11/2020 13:10:50    2303782

Link

There's advantages to knockout championship, you do get a game like yesterday being more high stakes.

There are costs to it though too.

Fewer games between the top teams.

For me the balance is league phase followed by playoffs. Works in plenty of other sports.

There's lot of ways it could be done.

2 groups of 8 in a tier 1
1 division of 14 in a tier 1
2 groups of 10 in a tier 1.

You're getting more games between the top teams, not dragging out the competition too low and finishing off with knockout football at the end amongst real challengers.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 01/11/2020 13:17:25    2303784

Link

Replying To Breezy:  "A 14 game league and a straight knockout cup would be my dream for the football but it ain't gonna happen any time soon. I would say professionalism is more likely to happen before that"
It won't because the top counties still want to play a championship with knockout games.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 01/11/2020 13:26:54    2303788

Link

I have always thought that the best system would be a summer league overlapped with a seeded knockout championship. The league would probably become the main competition over time which is fine.

The provincial championships could be played in the spring but I don't think it makes any sense to have them as part of the championship any more. They are too unbalanced, particularly in Munster and Leinster. The provincial councils would never allow that of course, but that would be my dream format.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1957 - 01/11/2020 14:10:59    2303802

Link