National Forum

Hurling's Increased Scoring Rate

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Recently, matches like the Clare v Limerick, suggest that point scoring has been on the increase in hurling. Regardless of the reasons for this (e.g. lighter sliotar, better accuracy from better conditioned players), is the trend good for the game ? Personally, I'd rather have the scoring cut in half.

What should change to make scoring more difficult -
1) narrow the goal posts to two thirds of its current width ?
2) award 4 pts per goal (or 7 pts for 2 goals) ?
3) no ball to hand allowed before point scoring off the hurl ?

Any Ideas - what do you think ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1824 - 31/10/2020 05:21:33    2303232

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Recently, matches like the Clare v Limerick, suggest that point scoring has been on the increase in hurling. Regardless of the reasons for this (e.g. lighter sliotar, better accuracy from better conditioned players), is the trend good for the game ? Personally, I'd rather have the scoring cut in half.

What should change to make scoring more difficult -
1) narrow the goal posts to two thirds of its current width ?
2) award 4 pts per goal (or 7 pts for 2 goals) ?
3) no ball to hand allowed before point scoring off the hurl ?

Any Ideas - what do you think ?"
Good post. One could raise some very valid points but if one did some of the ultra sensitive hurling supporters would pounce and make it personal. Easier just to say hurling is greatest game in the world. If you enjoy what was offered last week, fill your boots. If not then tune out.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3772 - 31/10/2020 09:24:39    2303244

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Recently, matches like the Clare v Limerick, suggest that point scoring has been on the increase in hurling. Regardless of the reasons for this (e.g. lighter sliotar, better accuracy from better conditioned players), is the trend good for the game ? Personally, I'd rather have the scoring cut in half.

What should change to make scoring more difficult -
1) narrow the goal posts to two thirds of its current width ?
2) award 4 pts per goal (or 7 pts for 2 goals) ?
3) no ball to hand allowed before point scoring off the hurl ?

Any Ideas - what do you think ?"
well I think we would all complain more if it was very low scoring.I defo would not change goal size but maybe look at the weight of the sliotar again.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 31/10/2020 11:23:44    2303272

Link

Narrowing the goalpost aint going to happen and theres no need for it. The stats from last weekend Munster game show that very few scores came from outside midfield and the majority from inside the 45. That suggests that its not scoring from long distances is the problem but intensity put on the player thats shooting. I think it comes down to 2 things, the possession game where teams are now more intent on being available for the next pass rather than marking their men and secondly the handpass which is allowing players to distribute the ball with ease to players in space. So...
Apply the steps rule more stringently.
Standardise the maximum boss size on hurleys.
Standardise the Sliotar weight and maybe add a fraction to it first.
Address, get rid of or change the handpass. Whether its a throw or not is arbitrary.
There is no need for major surgery. Just adjust what you got and the game can be even better.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 601 - 31/10/2020 11:27:42    2303275

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Recently, matches like the Clare v Limerick, suggest that point scoring has been on the increase in hurling. Regardless of the reasons for this (e.g. lighter sliotar, better accuracy from better conditioned players), is the trend good for the game ? Personally, I'd rather have the scoring cut in half.

What should change to make scoring more difficult -
1) narrow the goal posts to two thirds of its current width ?
2) award 4 pts per goal (or 7 pts for 2 goals) ?
3) no ball to hand allowed before point scoring off the hurl ?

Any Ideas - what do you think ?"
In my opinion overall hurling at the top level in the last 15 years is a much better to watch than it was years ago.
I did not get to see the Clare Limerick match last weekend but I agree scorelines like 36 points at a top level, if it becomes the norm sounds like it is a bit too much.
If the GAA decides they need to curtail scoring and the no. of puck outs in matches they don't need to take drastic action like narrowing the goal posts or award 4 points for a goal.
A better measure if point scoring needs to be curtailed would be to look at the way modern hurls are made.
Recently I bought my young son a new hurl after he broke his previous hurl. I picked out what I thought was a lovely made hurl. When he saw it he didn't want it, said it was way to skinny. Seeing him use it it was obvious he could not hit the ball nearly as far, because of this we got him another more typical modern hurl (big bas similar to what years ago I would habe considered a goalie's hurl) and he again was able to hit the ball way further.
The way modern hurls are made is probably the biggest reason for the increased striking distance, I think I read somewhere that there is rules about the dimensions a hurl can be made to but these rules are completely ignored.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 768 - 31/10/2020 11:50:54    2303280

Link

Replying To ZUL10:  "Narrowing the goalpost aint going to happen and theres no need for it. The stats from last weekend Munster game show that very few scores came from outside midfield and the majority from inside the 45. That suggests that its not scoring from long distances is the problem but intensity put on the player thats shooting. I think it comes down to 2 things, the possession game where teams are now more intent on being available for the next pass rather than marking their men and secondly the handpass which is allowing players to distribute the ball with ease to players in space. So...
Apply the steps rule more stringently.
Standardise the maximum boss size on hurleys.
Standardise the Sliotar weight and maybe add a fraction to it first.
Address, get rid of or change the handpass. Whether its a throw or not is arbitrary.
There is no need for major surgery. Just adjust what you got and the game can be even better."
"Standardise the maximum boss size on hurleys."

It is already standardised, but, the rule is not enforced.

The GAA rule book states that "The bas of a hurley at its widest point shall not be more than 13cm (5.11 inches)".

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1115 - 31/10/2020 12:12:34    2303291

Link

Scoring from massive distances regardless of the angle is common place now with players vastly more comfortable off either side

It's made defending so much harder and it's impossible to prevent many scores now

Hate to say it but it definitely reminds me more of basketball recently

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20035 - 31/10/2020 12:38:54    2303300

Link

I'd say there will be no danger of high point scoring in today's matches given the weather conditions. If it happens today it will underline the problem even more.
Yes have a standardised sliotar and implement the rule on boss size. Obviously it's impractical to go messing with goalpost size since the same goalposts are needed for football.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1448 - 31/10/2020 12:44:49    2303302

Link

Replying To bdbuddah:  "In my opinion overall hurling at the top level in the last 15 years is a much better to watch than it was years ago.
I did not get to see the Clare Limerick match last weekend but I agree scorelines like 36 points at a top level, if it becomes the norm sounds like it is a bit too much.
If the GAA decides they need to curtail scoring and the no. of puck outs in matches they don't need to take drastic action like narrowing the goal posts or award 4 points for a goal.
A better measure if point scoring needs to be curtailed would be to look at the way modern hurls are made.
Recently I bought my young son a new hurl after he broke his previous hurl. I picked out what I thought was a lovely made hurl. When he saw it he didn't want it, said it was way to skinny. Seeing him use it it was obvious he could not hit the ball nearly as far, because of this we got him another more typical modern hurl (big bas similar to what years ago I would habe considered a goalie's hurl) and he again was able to hit the ball way further.
The way modern hurls are made is probably the biggest reason for the increased striking distance, I think I read somewhere that there is rules about the dimensions a hurl can be made to but these rules are completely ignored."
Might be better then 15 or 20 years ago but not better then 6 or 7 years ago. It might be the hurl or the ball probably both plus the possession game. Today there is very little one on one hurling in the middle of the field. I watched a couple of games from 2014 last week, great battles throughout the field. Long clearances aren't always bad. Great to see a dropping ball coming down around the square and 2 players battling for it. Great risk reward stuff. Much more exciting then players hand passing the ball down the field and eventually tapping the ball over the bar. Give me a 3-15 score line over 31 or 32 pts any day. I agree look at the hurls and the ball nothing major needs to be done.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 183 - 31/10/2020 13:23:43    2303306

Link

Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "I'd say there will be no danger of high point scoring in today's matches given the weather conditions. If it happens today it will underline the problem even more.
Yes have a standardised sliotar and implement the rule on boss size. Obviously it's impractical to go messing with goalpost size since the same goalposts are needed for football."
I agree the goalposts is impossible and regardless of whether there is too much scoring or not have an official match ball and equipment checks is normal in every sport now and should be same for hurling

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 31/10/2020 14:58:50    2303322

Link

Replying To bennybunny:  "Good post. One could raise some very valid points but if one did some of the ultra sensitive hurling supporters would pounce and make it personal. Easier just to say hurling is greatest game in the world. If you enjoy what was offered last week, fill your boots. If not then tune out."
People will point to high scores as a reason for hurling never being better, but will ignore the fact a huge amount of scores come from frees now. Players scoring 15 points in a game is common enough now but could score all of them from frees.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 402 - 31/10/2020 19:01:46    2303528

Link

Boss size, weight of ball - maybe.
Perhaps legalise the chop but only in your own half.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 100 - 31/10/2020 19:30:21    2303541

Link

Replying To oneoff:  "People will point to high scores as a reason for hurling never being better, but will ignore the fact a huge amount of scores come from frees now. Players scoring 15 points in a game is common enough now but could score all of them from frees."
But sure look how loose and open the championship games have been so far. They are like league games.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 979 - 31/10/2020 20:13:43    2303575

Link

Replying To jimbodub:  "Scoring from massive distances regardless of the angle is common place now with players vastly more comfortable off either side

It's made defending so much harder and it's impossible to prevent many scores now

Hate to say it but it definitely reminds me more of basketball recently"
V similar to basketball in terms of scoring, its almost getting to the stage where you can tune out of the first half and if the game is still tight going into the last 20 minutes tune back in. A lot of people watch basketball like that, keep and eye on the score and watch the last quarter.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13145 - 31/10/2020 22:11:22    2303632

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "V similar to basketball in terms of scoring, its almost getting to the stage where you can tune out of the first half and if the game is still tight going into the last 20 minutes tune back in. A lot of people watch basketball like that, keep and eye on the score and watch the last quarter."
If ye want to compare something to basket ball it's football. Hurling is great because no blanket defense or any negativity will work, too many ways to be attacked . WE have had brilliant games last year Galway v Kilkenny ,Wexford v tipp ,Limerick v Kilkenny and plenty more. I was at these games and no one was tuned out even for a second.This year is way different, no supporters to add tension which puts a lot more pressure on players. But unlike football if a team is a lot better it will show clearly you cannot park the bus!

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 68 - 31/10/2020 23:06:39    2303654

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "V similar to basketball in terms of scoring, its almost getting to the stage where you can tune out of the first half and if the game is still tight going into the last 20 minutes tune back in. A lot of people watch basketball like that, keep and eye on the score and watch the last quarter."
its almost getting to the stage where you can tune out of the first half and if the game is still tight going into the last 20 minutes tune back in. A lot of people watch basketball like that, keep and eye on the score and watch the last quarter.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13092 - 31/10/2020 22:11:22

With Football, whenever Dublin are playing, you don't even tune in to the first half, or bother tuning in to the 'last 20 minutes'. It's a a foregone conclusion.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1115 - 31/10/2020 23:55:46    2303664

Link

Concensus then points to standarised boss size and sliotar weight = good suggestions.

How about -
1) make all frees indirect, like in shinty ?
2) before a point is scored from play, the scorer cannot take the sliotar to hand ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1824 - 01/11/2020 01:59:28    2303673

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Concensus then points to standarised boss size and sliotar weight = good suggestions.

How about -
1) make all frees indirect, like in shinty ?
2) before a point is scored from play, the scorer cannot take the sliotar to hand ?"
Indirect frees would be very unfair and allow even more frees. but there are cases for it like technical fouls could probably be indirect. Sometime I think frees should be worth 2 points given the amount of fouls in recent matches. Michael Duignan mentioned hooking and blocking as how they were trained to tackle not this hand out type tackle that causing umteen frees.
Your second point sounds like Shinty?

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 601 - 01/11/2020 10:21:01    2303721

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Concensus then points to standarised boss size and sliotar weight = good suggestions.

How about -
1) make all frees indirect, like in shinty ?
2) before a point is scored from play, the scorer cannot take the sliotar to hand ?"
Make all frees indirect.??? Then the ball will never played by the defender they will just keep fouling. Why are going to hamper good players who have unreal skill levels the high level if scoring is what makes it exciting.

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 68 - 01/11/2020 10:28:09    2303726

Link

Replying To ecad123:  "If ye want to compare something to basket ball it's football. Hurling is great because no blanket defense or any negativity will work, too many ways to be attacked . WE have had brilliant games last year Galway v Kilkenny ,Wexford v tipp ,Limerick v Kilkenny and plenty more. I was at these games and no one was tuned out even for a second.This year is way different, no supporters to add tension which puts a lot more pressure on players. But unlike football if a team is a lot better it will show clearly you cannot park the bus!"
But that's just not true. There's huge negativity in hurling, it's just drushed off as "being part of the game".


As for teams "not parking the bus" you clearly didn't watch, or just want to ignore, Waterford under McGrath being one example.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 402 - 01/11/2020 11:59:45    2303761

Link