National Forum

Donegal Vs Tyrone

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Armagh have Division 1 standard forwards, with a Division 3 standard defence. Reckless in how they tackle, and its always on the edge.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2216 - 02/11/2020 08:48:47    2304230

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Armagh have Division 1 standard forwards, with a Division 3 standard defence. Reckless in how they tackle, and its always on the edge."
Yeah I watched their league game with Roscommon and their defence was very porous indeed. They gave away a lot of goal chances which allowed Roscommon take control and leave with the points.

They certainly have dangerous forwards who will take some watching all the same. Jamie Clarke looked very good yesterday.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7075 - 02/11/2020 10:10:08    2304266

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With the Brennan incident, it should've been red but McKellen wouldn't give him the line because he didn't see it himself. In a broader sense I don't think these incidents deserve a red but that's how they ref them these days.

joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 144 - 02/11/2020 10:23:45    2304270

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Replying To joeteor:  "Also wasted talent, winning ulster not the big crown it was in my opinion."
Spoiled with Ulster titles in the north-west are we? Dhia sabháil.

We've been found short in the Super 8s in a home match against Tyrone and away to Mayo. In regular years with the old quarter final set up, I'd have expected us to be in at least one semi the last two years. Other than that Bonner has done a great job. That first year, nobody in the county expected us to win Ulster. The draw was kind to us that year in that we didn't play Tyrone or Monaghan, but that was still a massive bonus for a young team. Wasted talent, what are you on about? What talent is Bonner wasting?

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1125 - 02/11/2020 10:41:11    2304279

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Armagh have Division 1 standard forwards, with a Division 3 standard defence. Reckless in how they tackle, and its always on the edge."
hard to know - we have decent forwards but i don't think we are clinical enough as regards defense, we are very porous. Against Laois we were very poor, in other games average, Donegal are favourites and rightly so

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1589 - 02/11/2020 10:43:25    2304282

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Replying To panamasam:  "It wasn't a red and just about a yellow. It was a clip around the ear nothing more and pales in comparison to alot of went on. Thankfully the red applied some common sense unlike some of the drama queen responses on here. I doubt either free was brought in for no reason the same as the Tyrone free in the first half. The lads on the BBC should be ashamed of themselves for their analysis especially when you consider the teams they played for. Not calling out the Tyrone man for his pathetic behaviour was poor to say the least. That kinda hand bag behaviour wouldn't have been tolerated much in either one of the great Armagh or Tyrone teams they were involved in. At least the lads on RTE saved face for the game by calling out the Tyrone man for his pathetic behaviour. Highlighting the non pen incident showed more bias. McMenamin was falling to the ground after competing fairly for the ball with McKenna. In those conditions hard for him to avoid contact with the ball but in no way did he move arm to the ball in which case it was a pen. I would agree with you in having reservations about Donegal outside of Ulster. However last year we probably should have beaten Kerry in the super eights who pushed the Dubs all the way so not that far away. Few can argue that the forward power and options is there if they can get it right on the day."
Technically it was a red card. To strike or attempt to strike is a red. I know it was only a slap but by the rulebook it's a strike. Brennan was silly but McKiernan was very wrong by his actions. I don't rate Joe at all as a ref. Very inconsistent. I don't know why some frees were brought in and but if its for mouthing or blocking kicks fair enough. A close game but I think Donegal just about deserved it. Both as I've stated before I take my hat off to both teams under the circumstances.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 02/11/2020 11:00:48    2304300

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Technically it was a red card. To strike or attempt to strike is a red. I know it was only a slap but by the rulebook it's a strike. Brennan was silly but McKiernan was very wrong by his actions. I don't rate Joe at all as a ref. Very inconsistent. I don't know why some frees were brought in and but if its for mouthing or blocking kicks fair enough. A close game but I think Donegal just about deserved it. Both as I've stated before I take my hat off to both teams under the circumstances."
Impossible to see everything. It was up to the umpires or the linesmen to help him. Did they?

I think the RTE called it well last night for what it was, despite the technicalities of it.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3770 - 02/11/2020 11:23:46    2304312

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I think there might be a somewhat enthusiastic interpretations of the rulebook regarding the Brennan incident on here.

The idea that lifting your hand is an automatic red is a fallacy. Players lift their hands all the time, to push, pull, hit, play, protect, and yes, sometimes to strike. The rulebook says it is a red card offence to strike or to attempt to strike your opponent with arm, elbow, hand, or knee.

If you interpret what happened yesterday to be a "strike" then I think you need to re-evaluate why you even bother watching Gaelic Football. Every single tackle attempt at all levels U8s up is more of a "strike" than that was. It was a clip round the ear with an open palm. Yes it's annoying, yes it's unsporting as such, but calling that a strike is simply not accurate. A strike requires force or violence.

Asking why McQuillan gave a yellow card does not prove that Brennan struck McKiernan. It's secondary to the fact.

SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 195 - 02/11/2020 11:38:30    2304320

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Replying To SurelyToGod:  "I think there might be a somewhat enthusiastic interpretations of the rulebook regarding the Brennan incident on here.

The idea that lifting your hand is an automatic red is a fallacy. Players lift their hands all the time, to push, pull, hit, play, protect, and yes, sometimes to strike. The rulebook says it is a red card offence to strike or to attempt to strike your opponent with arm, elbow, hand, or knee.

If you interpret what happened yesterday to be a "strike" then I think you need to re-evaluate why you even bother watching Gaelic Football. Every single tackle attempt at all levels U8s up is more of a "strike" than that was. It was a clip round the ear with an open palm. Yes it's annoying, yes it's unsporting as such, but calling that a strike is simply not accurate. A strike requires force or violence.

Asking why McQuillan gave a yellow card does not prove that Brennan struck McKiernan. It's secondary to the fact."
What should a player do when he gets a clip round the ear

strike back
ignore it
draw refs attention to it
anything else?

I think the focus should be on the lad that did the slapping

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1292 - 02/11/2020 12:12:31    2304356

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Replying To Mayonman:  "What should a player do when he gets a clip round the ear

strike back
ignore it
draw refs attention to it
anything else?

I think the focus should be on the lad that did the slapping"
Well he shouldn't pretend it was bad as a belt from Mike Tyson. Faking injury is a scourge on any sport. Neither should a player be slapping a lad with an open palm in the head. It's stupid and could result in a sending off if interpreted by a ref as serious enough. They're both wrong. It's possible to focus on both of those things.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 875 - 02/11/2020 12:24:52    2304364

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Replying To SurelyToGod:  "I think there might be a somewhat enthusiastic interpretations of the rulebook regarding the Brennan incident on here.

The idea that lifting your hand is an automatic red is a fallacy. Players lift their hands all the time, to push, pull, hit, play, protect, and yes, sometimes to strike. The rulebook says it is a red card offence to strike or to attempt to strike your opponent with arm, elbow, hand, or knee.

If you interpret what happened yesterday to be a "strike" then I think you need to re-evaluate why you even bother watching Gaelic Football. Every single tackle attempt at all levels U8s up is more of a "strike" than that was. It was a clip round the ear with an open palm. Yes it's annoying, yes it's unsporting as such, but calling that a strike is simply not accurate. A strike requires force or violence.

Asking why McQuillan gave a yellow card does not prove that Brennan struck McKiernan. It's secondary to the fact."
Absolutely spot on. Rewarding a lad doing a Jack Grealish would make me consider why bother watching. Imagine what the hurling people must think? By the letter of law then alot of tackles and incidents where a man wins a high ball but often gets slapped over the head or back with actual force should be 'strikes' too.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2458 - 02/11/2020 13:17:05    2304394

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Armagh have Division 1 standard forwards, with a Division 3 standard defence. Reckless in how they tackle, and its always on the edge."
Absolutely agree with this, the only thing stopping Armagh from really being a top class side is that they give away far too many scoreable frees. They have some good defenders but need to cut down on the free count.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1730 - 02/11/2020 15:06:15    2304445

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Replying To SurelyToGod:  "I think there might be a somewhat enthusiastic interpretations of the rulebook regarding the Brennan incident on here.

The idea that lifting your hand is an automatic red is a fallacy. Players lift their hands all the time, to push, pull, hit, play, protect, and yes, sometimes to strike. The rulebook says it is a red card offence to strike or to attempt to strike your opponent with arm, elbow, hand, or knee.

If you interpret what happened yesterday to be a "strike" then I think you need to re-evaluate why you even bother watching Gaelic Football. Every single tackle attempt at all levels U8s up is more of a "strike" than that was. It was a clip round the ear with an open palm. Yes it's annoying, yes it's unsporting as such, but calling that a strike is simply not accurate. A strike requires force or violence.

Asking why McQuillan gave a yellow card does not prove that Brennan struck McKiernan. It's secondary to the fact."
How is it secondary to the fact. Mcquillan gave him a yellow as he saw some sort of foul being committed, the only foul was the strike which is a straight red. No ifs or buts. Either we follow the rules or there is no point in playing.

The slap wasn't during play or when 2 players were going for the ball. It was off the ball. The rule could not be any clearer

"5.16 To strike or to attempt to strike an opponent with arm, elbow, hand or knee".

Even if he completely missed its still a red or an attempt.

The tyrone player made a complete meal of it which is wrong but it is still a red any day. There was no force when brennan grabbed the refs arm but as per the rules he was banned for 12 weeks. You can't pick and choose when to apply them.

If it happens to a Donegal player later in the championship I wonder if use would be as quick to down play the incident

kevin03 (Tyrone) - Posts: 244 - 02/11/2020 16:06:02    2304476

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Replying To kevin03:  "How is it secondary to the fact. Mcquillan gave him a yellow as he saw some sort of foul being committed, the only foul was the strike which is a straight red. No ifs or buts. Either we follow the rules or there is no point in playing.

The slap wasn't during play or when 2 players were going for the ball. It was off the ball. The rule could not be any clearer

"5.16 To strike or to attempt to strike an opponent with arm, elbow, hand or knee".

Even if he completely missed its still a red or an attempt.

The tyrone player made a complete meal of it which is wrong but it is still a red any day. There was no force when brennan grabbed the refs arm but as per the rules he was banned for 12 weeks. You can't pick and choose when to apply them.

If it happens to a Donegal player later in the championship I wonder if use would be as quick to down play the incident"
It happened to a Donegal player yesterday in fact one Michael Murphy. The only difference is that Murphy has far too much respect for himself and the game by not engaging in Jack Grealish like behaviour.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2458 - 02/11/2020 16:17:32    2304483

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Replying To catch22:  "Why were the frees moved forward then ?
Any idea why that might be ?"
Free's are moved foward because smart ***** cant keep there mouths shut .

ballyshannon (Donegal) - Posts: 134 - 02/11/2020 16:18:10    2304484

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Replying To panamasam:  "It happened to a Donegal player yesterday in fact one Michael Murphy. The only difference is that Murphy has far too much respect for himself and the game by not engaging in Jack Grealish like behaviour."
Oh give me a break. It happened to murphy in the last 2 mins off the game. What's the point in going down then as the game was over at that stage.

One trait I have noticed over the years is that when any free is given either for or against Donegal, murphy is standing right beside the ref shouting at him. Every single time. Mcquillan didn't move too many tyrone frees forward when murphy was constantly shouting.

kevin03 (Tyrone) - Posts: 244 - 02/11/2020 16:34:42    2304497

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Replying To Mayonman:  "What should a player do when he gets a clip round the ear

strike back
ignore it
draw refs attention to it
anything else?

I think the focus should be on the lad that did the slapping"
What should he do? Not try to win an Oscar for it anyway and get a player intentionally sent off.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 895 - 02/11/2020 16:40:09    2304501

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Replying To HEREBENJI:  "Listened to Micky Hartes interview on Highland as another poster mentioned it. His 2 main complaints were, 1. That it wasn't fair that Donegal had home advantage. Its been like that in Ulster for God knows how long Micky and with no supporters at the game any advantage was reduced significantly. 2. Conor McKenna was manhandled. Nearly choked on my cornflakes over this one. I'm sure Michael Murphy would see the irony in it too considering how Micky has sent his men out to deal with him over the years."
I heard interviews myself this morning; the link was on another forum and I also seen the BBC interview. It was a very surprising interview from MH who always gave the impression Tyrone were the top county in Ulster and the county who had made the most progress in the last 20 years in terms of facilities etc; can I say there was even a touch of arrogance amongst Tyrone GAA and if truth is told a lot of Ulster counties have a psychological barrier when they play them. Tyrone carry themselves so well as a lot of the successful sports teams do worldwide which builds up a fear amongst others.

The message I got from the interview is frustration in the sense Tyrone struggle to beat Donegal and they'd prefer some set up that allowed Tyrone to play "lesser counties" (not his exact words but basically saying the rest of Ulster is not at our standard), in an arrogant sort of way. He'd prefer a seeded draw but please don't send the great Tyrone to Ballybofey as they'd be out of the championship early which shouldn't happen to a county like Tyrone.

It was a strange interview and to me any Donegal fan hearing it should smile and ackowledge operation McGuinness is now complete. When McGuinness took the Donegal job he did nothing but talk about catching Tyrone; not being afraid of Tyrone, not being second to Tyrone and years later you can see the mindset of Donegal GAA when it comes to Tyrone. There is no psychological barrier; if any thing after MH's interview the psycholgical barrier is now the other way around and Tyrone seem to have an issue with Donegal teams.

McGuniness's job is still amazing years after he has left; he changed the mindset of a whole county.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 707 - 02/11/2020 17:25:29    2304524

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Replying To kevin03:  "Oh give me a break. It happened to murphy in the last 2 mins off the game. What's the point in going down then as the game was over at that stage.

One trait I have noticed over the years is that when any free is given either for or against Donegal, murphy is standing right beside the ref shouting at him. Every single time. Mcquillan didn't move too many tyrone frees forward when murphy was constantly shouting."
So what you're saying is that Murphy didn't go down because it was near the end, but McKernan went down to get a man sent off because the match was in the mix? Instead of giving out about Murphy, maybe you should be praising him for not going down like a sack of spuds the way McKernan did.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 895 - 02/11/2020 18:11:36    2304546

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Replying To panamasam:  "It happened to a Donegal player yesterday in fact one Michael Murphy. The only difference is that Murphy has far too much respect for himself and the game by not engaging in Jack Grealish like behaviour."
Michael Murphy was lying on the ground holding his head and pretending to be injured when the final whistle went in the 2012 All-Ireland so I'm not sure about that comment. But you are right about yesterday. For it to be considered a strike there has to be force, clearly the linesman told the referee there was no force in the tap from Brennan and that instead it was simply rough play which is a yellow card. The only mistake the referee made is not giving Mckernan a yellow card as well for feigning injury.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2484 - 02/11/2020 18:21:40    2304548

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