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El Clasico 2020 Monaghan Vs Cavan

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Poor tactics from Monaghan today. They had a chance to chip away at Cavan in the 2nd half as they committed more bodies forward but they panicked and got what they deserved in the end. Credit to Cavan who didn't drop the heads after the first half. They took some great scores in the second half and deserved to get over the line in the end.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2020 - 31/10/2020 18:01:27    2303486

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Poor tactics from Monaghan today. They had a chance to chip away at Cavan in the 2nd half as they committed more bodies forward but they panicked and got what they deserved in the end. Credit to Cavan who didn't drop the heads after the first half. They took some great scores in the second half and deserved to get over the line in the end."
I know Cavan scored some great scores in 2nd half , but you can't shoot from that distance week in week out. It worked in 2016 for Tyrone v Donegal in final of Ulster but it'll not do every week. Dublin shoot from the D with less chance of missing. Maybe Monaghan didn't expect so many to go over.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 276 - 31/10/2020 18:28:57    2303506

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I know many Monaghan men on here will complain about Banty. But I think Mal O'Rourke would have don't the exact same thing-against a gale force wind, 7 up, play on counter with McManus up front. If Monaghan has of won no one would be complaining.

The players have to take a look at themselves big time. They let the manager down. A manager can't foresee Or do much for the team, an extremely experienced team, Playing the way they did in the second half.

Don't get me wrong, Banty made errors, but it's very easy after a defeat to blame a manager. The players should be very disappointed tonite

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1790 - 31/10/2020 18:43:33    2303511

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Well done Cavan.

TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 561 - 31/10/2020 18:48:46    2303515

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Replying To Saynothing:  "I know Cavan scored some great scores in 2nd half , but you can't shoot from that distance week in week out. It worked in 2016 for Tyrone v Donegal in final of Ulster but it'll not do every week. Dublin shoot from the D with less chance of missing. Maybe Monaghan didn't expect so many to go over."
There was a gale force wind. It made sense today.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4135 - 31/10/2020 18:49:24    2303516

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Replying To Saynothing:  "I know Cavan scored some great scores in 2nd half , but you can't shoot from that distance week in week out. It worked in 2016 for Tyrone v Donegal in final of Ulster but it'll not do every week. Dublin shoot from the D with less chance of missing. Maybe Monaghan didn't expect so many to go over."
Maybe if it was less windy they would've took scores from closer in

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2020 - 31/10/2020 18:56:49    2303520

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Really exciting game, hope we have more of this for the rest of the year. Well done Cavan, they really dug in when the game was going against them. Geroid McKeiron it a truly fantastic player. What a score from Raymond Gallagin to win it. I dont know much about Luke Fortune but had a great game and his 2 points in the second half kept Cavan in it. Thomas Galligan made a huge difference when he came on. Cavan can make the Ulster final now.

I just cant believe the tactics used by Monaghan in the second half. Why did they not press on and win the game? Banty has to take responsibility for that. Still think Monaghan are a very good side but Banty is no Malachy O'Rourke. Also we cant be too critical considering how this year has been in terms of preparation.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1730 - 31/10/2020 18:59:45    2303524

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "I know many Monaghan men on here will complain about Banty. But I think Mal O'Rourke would have don't the exact same thing-against a gale force wind, 7 up, play on counter with McManus up front. If Monaghan has of won no one would be complaining.

The players have to take a look at themselves big time. They let the manager down. A manager can't foresee Or do much for the team, an extremely experienced team, Playing the way they did in the second half.

Don't get me wrong, Banty made errors, but it's very easy after a defeat to blame a manager. The players should be very disappointed tonite"
I think both sets of players gave everything which should be praised in this year of all years. I don't think anybody let others down; O'Rourke was/is one of the best managers in the country and got everything out of his squad over a couple of years; unlucky not to qualify for an All Ireland final.

I believe a skill of a great manager is knowing the moment to walk away; if he thought there was another kick in Monaghan he'd still be there but in my opinion he assessed what was likely to happen and decided to go.

Banty did a great job keeping Monaghan in Div 1; maybe had them fitter earlier to get early points on the board. I'm not sure Monaghan could have identified a top manager outside the county and I wouldn't know if there is any other talent in the county.

As the Meath game showed and then today I don't think these players lack effort or committment; I also don't think it's tactics; to me it's Monaghan aren't as strong any longer and a game against Cavan was always going to be 50/50 as it worked out.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 707 - 31/10/2020 19:01:30    2303526

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Replying To Young_gael:  "Good lad Ollie, yeah I agree with all of the above myself however I think those reasons are the tip of the iceberg for many, and I dont want to be dragging this thread into the depths with another political discussion! Too many threads have devolved to it lately. On a side note, good win for the Wee County last week, and good luck v. Longford. Will be an interesting match."
Ah cheers Young_Gael. It's a pity I can't be there so I just have to do with LMFM. Louth will go into the match as underdogs so that suits the Wee County. Longford are unbeaten in their last five matches against Louth which includes two league wins, one championship win, one O'Byrne cup win and a draw in the O'Byrne cup. The last time Louth beat Longford was in the league in 2017 in Drogheda by a point in which they were lucky to hold on. Sam Mulroy is playing well and scored 1-07 against Down last weekend. He won a senior title Championship with the Naomh Martin club from Monsterboice just north of Drogheda. This was their maiden title after losing the last two finals in 2018 and 2019. Im expecting big things from him this year.

Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 221 - 31/10/2020 19:07:12    2303531

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Replying To sam1884:  "I think both sets of players gave everything which should be praised in this year of all years. I don't think anybody let others down; O'Rourke was/is one of the best managers in the country and got everything out of his squad over a couple of years; unlucky not to qualify for an All Ireland final.

I believe a skill of a great manager is knowing the moment to walk away; if he thought there was another kick in Monaghan he'd still be there but in my opinion he assessed what was likely to happen and decided to go.

Banty did a great job keeping Monaghan in Div 1; maybe had them fitter earlier to get early points on the board. I'm not sure Monaghan could have identified a top manager outside the county and I wouldn't know if there is any other talent in the county.

As the Meath game showed and then today I don't think these players lack effort or committment; I also don't think it's tactics; to me it's Monaghan aren't as strong any longer and a game against Cavan was always going to be 50/50 as it worked out."
Tend to agree with you up to a point. Monaghan were a far stronger side 4 or 5 years ago certain players were younger had more in the legs and these same lads are still there because there isn't any other alternatives. Others like Corey and Mone have retired leaving big gaps in terms of leadership and defensive qualities. A county with our small player pool was always going to struggle to replace those players. Despite some good recent underage success not enough of those players have made it through. We are also not producing any inter County midfielders bar niall kearns who was injured today. Cavan when they forced beggan to go long today had a huge advantage there with some big men in the middle. Despite all that it was criminal to approach the 2nd half the way we did with so little ambition to go on and win the game. There was one play where mcmanus won a turnover deep in cavan defence a few years ago wed turned that into a score or at least an effort at one. Instead we passed it all the way back to beggan. It had to give the cavan players huge belief that they could come back and win the game which if they had pushed up earlier in second half they'd won in normal time.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1498 - 31/10/2020 20:10:00    2303572

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Championship has to be straight knockout, no backdoors or super 8 nonsense, league has to be whoever tops the league wins it, after that concentrate on our club football.
I see the hurling still continuing with back door even this year, the hurling seems endless to me most years, I have zero interest in it, don't know how they ever whittle it down to semi final stage,
anyway rant over, well done again to Cavan and hope the rest of the Ulster Championship is as exciting.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1076 - 31/10/2020 20:53:22    2303587

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Replying To seanie08:  "Tend to agree with you up to a point. Monaghan were a far stronger side 4 or 5 years ago certain players were younger had more in the legs and these same lads are still there because there isn't any other alternatives. Others like Corey and Mone have retired leaving big gaps in terms of leadership and defensive qualities. A county with our small player pool was always going to struggle to replace those players. Despite some good recent underage success not enough of those players have made it through. We are also not producing any inter County midfielders bar niall kearns who was injured today. Cavan when they forced beggan to go long today had a huge advantage there with some big men in the middle. Despite all that it was criminal to approach the 2nd half the way we did with so little ambition to go on and win the game. There was one play where mcmanus won a turnover deep in cavan defence a few years ago wed turned that into a score or at least an effort at one. Instead we passed it all the way back to beggan. It had to give the cavan players huge belief that they could come back and win the game which if they had pushed up earlier in second half they'd won in normal time."
I wouldn't have inside knowledge of what's coming through in Monaghan but you're right about the amount of years/time some of these great Monaghan players have been competing at the top. Your post could have empathy in some other often bigger counties who had problems replacing good players; your Meath's, Galway's, Kildare's, Down's, Armagh's etc who dropped sometimes to Div 3 after golden era's; some of these teams even winning All Ireland's or qualifying for finals.

It's very difficult for a county Monaghan's size to replace one good era with another straight after and that might be where the problem is starting to show itself. I'm unsure of the finance in Monaghan but I'm guessing Banty was a sensible inhouse appointment; that might have been part of a wider cost cutting agenda in terms of prepararion due to the realislation Monaghan might struggle to remain at the top and therefore generate the same income.

In saying all of this today was a 50/50 game and Monaghan were still good enough to battle themselves into another Ulster Final this year; I'd have to agree they got very negative and defensive which was a strange call. Monaghan have been great for the championship this past decade but it does feel you's are at a crossroads now and it's hard not to see a number of retirements after today and a rebuilding job starting in Monaghan; just at a time some other counties are on the upward curve.

Hopefully Monaghan regroup and remain competitive around the top teams.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 707 - 31/10/2020 21:03:29    2303598

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Replying To sam1884:  "I wouldn't have inside knowledge of what's coming through in Monaghan but you're right about the amount of years/time some of these great Monaghan players have been competing at the top. Your post could have empathy in some other often bigger counties who had problems replacing good players; your Meath's, Galway's, Kildare's, Down's, Armagh's etc who dropped sometimes to Div 3 after golden era's; some of these teams even winning All Ireland's or qualifying for finals.

It's very difficult for a county Monaghan's size to replace one good era with another straight after and that might be where the problem is starting to show itself. I'm unsure of the finance in Monaghan but I'm guessing Banty was a sensible inhouse appointment; that might have been part of a wider cost cutting agenda in terms of prepararion due to the realislation Monaghan might struggle to remain at the top and therefore generate the same income.

In saying all of this today was a 50/50 game and Monaghan were still good enough to battle themselves into another Ulster Final this year; I'd have to agree they got very negative and defensive which was a strange call. Monaghan have been great for the championship this past decade but it does feel you's are at a crossroads now and it's hard not to see a number of retirements after today and a rebuilding job starting in Monaghan; just at a time some other counties are on the upward curve.

Hopefully Monaghan regroup and remain competitive around the top teams."
Yeah id have argued last year we could get more out of the team after defeats to Cavan and Armagh but it does look like the end for a lot of the players who have given great service. Yes we could have scrapped through today and on to an ulster final bit i feel gone are the days when wed be realistically looking to beat likes of donegal in one. I actually think we underachieved in the last decade with players we had lost some big games to not vintage sides but still some great days out for a county who wouldn't have been used to many in the modern era.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1498 - 31/10/2020 21:49:33    2303621

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Championship has to be straight knockout, no backdoors or super 8 nonsense, league has to be whoever tops the league wins it, after that concentrate on our club football.
I see the hurling still continuing with back door even this year, the hurling seems endless to me most years, I have zero interest in it, don't know how they ever whittle it down to semi final stage,
anyway rant over, well done again to Cavan and hope the rest of the Ulster Championship is as exciting."
I think the league should be scrapped and merged with the c'ship. 4 groups of 8, open draw. League games first, top 4 from each then go into straight knockout.
Scrap all the pre season stuff also. Intercounty should be compressed as much as possible to reduce demands on amateur players.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 796 - 31/10/2020 22:01:51    2303626

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Enjoyable game of football and well done to Cavan. Typical Ulster football match with favourites counting for little. Not sure some Monaghan posters blaming the manager was the full reason as he cannot kick frees over the bar. Knockout championship much better. A mighty free by the goalkeeper from 55m to win it. The other young Galligan who came on had a great game coupled with the keepers saves. Am I correct in saying that they are two brothers?

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2189 - 31/10/2020 22:54:47    2303647

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Replying To seanie08:  "Yeah id have argued last year we could get more out of the team after defeats to Cavan and Armagh but it does look like the end for a lot of the players who have given great service. Yes we could have scrapped through today and on to an ulster final bit i feel gone are the days when wed be realistically looking to beat likes of donegal in one. I actually think we underachieved in the last decade with players we had lost some big games to not vintage sides but still some great days out for a county who wouldn't have been used to many in the modern era."
Good post; maybe not the night but I'd have to agree with you. Monaghan have had a great 15 years or so at the top table but I do feel those groups of players could have achieved more with a bit of luck; the Tyrone semi final was a big defeat but the QF one; the famous Brolly rant was the year I felt Monaghan would have got to the final if McManus was allowed through on goal that day; and who knows in a final. But for a county Monaghan's size and record before the last 15 years it has been a great run and I'm sure many in the county will be working to keep them around the top table. Staying in Div 1 was a big achievement this year which is a good starting point to rebuild.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 707 - 31/10/2020 23:22:05    2303659

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Great win for Cavan. Well deserved. I thought the referee done everything in his power to take it away from Cavan but fair play yous beat him as well. Between blowing it up a minute early in normal time when Cavan had won a kick out to right at the end when he wouldn't allow the advantage to be played and pulled it back 30yards for a free (which luckily enough was scored to win).
All in all a great game and advertisement for Ulster football. Well done lads.
PS it was so sweet listening to Dick Clerkin calling the winning point on sky sports. Really made my day. Chin up Dick.

sam09 (Tyrone) - Posts: 335 - 01/11/2020 00:32:11    2303668

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Replying To browncows:  "Enjoyable game of football and well done to Cavan. Typical Ulster football match with favourites counting for little. Not sure some Monaghan posters blaming the manager was the full reason as he cannot kick frees over the bar. Knockout championship much better. A mighty free by the goalkeeper from 55m to win it. The other young Galligan who came on had a great game coupled with the keepers saves. Am I correct in saying that they are two brothers?"
Cousins

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4135 - 01/11/2020 09:45:55    2303704

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Replying To sam1884:  "The joys of the Ulster Championship; there isn't a championship like it with divisions, form etc going out the window when it's all on the line. Only thing missing was the crowds as there would have been a great atmosphere. Credit to both sets of players for serving up a classic; it's a huge win for Cavan and it won't go un noticed Monaghan's last three championship defeats have come against other Ulster counties who wouldn't have been a challenge a few years back.

Monaghan have had a great run in Ulster but are we starting to see them dip? That's for next year but as for this championship Cavan will see a path to another Ulster final."
I wouldn't call it a dip in a way we always have this issue. Failing to beat perceived 'weaker' opposition. I assume you are harking back to 2018. We comfortably beat Tyrone in the QF only to give an abysmal account of ourselves against Fermanagh....regardless we went on to reach the all Ireland SF that year.

However....a wee difference here. The line lost this game. Banty's 'tactics' were just plain stupid. Monaghan should have been out of sight in the first half. Cavan are a poor team and Monaghan have only themselves to blame as they got exactly what they deserved.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 189 - 02/11/2020 11:20:47    2304311

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Replying To Gator:  "I wouldn't call it a dip in a way we always have this issue. Failing to beat perceived 'weaker' opposition. I assume you are harking back to 2018. We comfortably beat Tyrone in the QF only to give an abysmal account of ourselves against Fermanagh....regardless we went on to reach the all Ireland SF that year.

However....a wee difference here. The line lost this game. Banty's 'tactics' were just plain stupid. Monaghan should have been out of sight in the first half. Cavan are a poor team and Monaghan have only themselves to blame as they got exactly what they deserved."
If Cavan are so poor of a team how did we beat your great Monaghan team 2 years in a row in the Ulster championship, you are blaming banty for this years loss who do you blame for last years loss ? Maybe we aren't a great team but definitely ye are not any better than us , more than likely if you didn't bust yourselves early on in the league you wouldn't be in div 1 either flogging the same old players year in year out just to try staying there.

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 743 - 02/11/2020 11:41:13    2304324

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