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Replying To KillingFields: "The meaning of left and right with the younger generation has taken on a life of its own. I think its pretty obvious at this stage that you're not permitted to have a middle or neutral view anymore.
In the old days it was the right v normal people now its the left against normal.
lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1334 - 24/10/2020 15:28:57What do you think is normal?
We're talking about today and not what happened in the past. Breda is irrelevant.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 80 - 24/10/2020 15:57:10Herself, Iona David Quinn etc are not irrelevant unfortunately through their role/actions in the media.
In no other country in the EU would Ibrahim Halawa be greeted as a hero on national tv and radio. Was simply extraordinary.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 773 - 24/10/2020 16:40:25 How was he greated as a hero?
Socially aware is worse. Can we not say 'too cool for school gobshi+e'?!!! Seriously, woke? Sending a few black lives matter gifs on WhatsApp and putting a few anti-racism photos and slogans on Facebook doesn't make you an activist, questionable even if you're a reactivist. And at the same time badmouthing travellers and immigrants and verbally abusing them. If you want to be concerned about racism putting stuff on social media won't stop some cops in the US being racist. But when your in LIDL or ALDI and one of the African or Eastern European staff might sound like they're being abrupt to you, don't look down their noses on them and abuse them but think they're working flat out in these challenging times dealing with us a in challenging times and their skin colour or nationality doesn't stop them having a bad day too. Start there. Be nice to people even if their not always nice back.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5870 - 24/10/2020 16:53:33Whats wrong with being socially aware?
Ive a lot of friends who are socially aware and they do lot more than post on whatsapp, facebook." Iona have lost the last 2 big social battles - same-sex marriage and abortion. They aren't that influential anymore.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 24/10/2020 18:03:20
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Replying To Crinigan: " Replying To KillingFields: " Correct. Having lived and worked among GAA haters in Dublin for decades, the anti Irish culture folks do exist, though, in my view, their numbers are diminishing. I worked in middle class white collar environments in Dublin, and their guard was down, as they assumed (wrongly) that GAA people were all blue collar, so I had a fascinating (and depressing) education in posh Irish cultural attitudes. The sniggering about "the Gah" and "diddley-aye" music. The natural assumption that wild GAA fans would vandalise their cars and property after matches in Croke Park. The faux concerns about the supposed "violence and thuggery" of Gaelic matches. The air of amused contempt on learning that I followed GAA, as if I wasn't yet fully civilised. The cultural loneliness of not being able to chat about a match with any colleagues, unless you were lucky enough to have a Kerry colleague as among all the yahs. (Kerry fans are, in my view, the most knowledgeable and the most objective / hard-headed GAA fans in the country.) Essentially, these anti GAA / anti trad people have inherited, and parrot, the attitudes of the English from 150 years earlier. They live in a sad and bitter little post-colonial bubble of posh bigotry which has direct cultural links right back to the establishment of the Pale and to the Statutes of Kilkenny. When I worked in white collar London, no English person had a clue about the GAA of course, but they were invariably open-minded and interested, with none of the petty snobbishness of their Irish counterparts.
But the posh Dubs (they never describe themselves as "Dubs" of course - and with that type of accent, it'd be pronounced "Dabs" anyway lol) are not the only anti-GAA cohort. The working class Dublin Premiership fan boy is even more bigoted; though the guys with a primary interest in local soccer tend to be grand.
Nor is it accurate, as some posters have done, to ascribe such attitudes to "the left". I'm afraid that the anti-GAA attitude co-exists naturally with a right wing, pro partition, anti Nationalist, middle class viewpoint. The GAA is also seen as representative of working class and rural culture, hence the Dublin middle class desire to distance yourself from the GAA is a way also of affirming your social status. For the Premiership fan boy, it's a way of affirming that you're not a yokel.
The reality is that, for varying reasons, the middle class right and the trendy left each have their reasons for dissing the GAA. It's quite contrived, and simply incorrect, to suggest that the anti GAA mentality is confined to a particular type of politics.
On a more positive note, my perception is that the anti-GAA cohort in the Irish urban middle class is in steep decline. In this century, it's been remarkable to see posh youngsters on Southside Luases carrying hurls.
It's why, even after 5 years of All Ireland misery, I never really begrudge the Dubs. And with the Tyrone team's safety-first brand of football (the Tyrone team plays a worse brand of football than the Tyrone clubs), it's just as well I don't mind the Dubs, as Tyrone's conservative style of play won't do much about it any time soon ...
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 760 - 24/10/2020 09:36:52 hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha That has to be a parody right? Yes there is bias against the GAA within journalism but it is not for idealistic reasons.
Journalists are going mad for click bait stories now more than ever. The GAA or any other game that is playing whilst covid 19 is at large, is a story that will sell. This is especially so if there are outbreaks and if other sporting bodies are unable to play while the GAA are.
For instance, the golfing community will feel very hard done by as they are not allowed to play for 6 weeks. Their game is perceived as being elitist and also has had negative press associated with it twice in relation to covid headlines. IF you audit their game, you will find that there is virtually zero chance of getting covid on the course.
Can we say the same about the GAA as a full contact sport and the spread of covid?
"Attacks" on the GAA by journalists are measured and calibrated commentaries. Same with rugby and soccer.
the GAA is a very easy target for journalism as the organisation enjoys money from the tax payer, sponsorship and finally from fund raising at local levels. It is impossible not to have an opinion about any organisation who enjoys all 3 levels of income mentioned above. (not to mention gate receipts).
Yes there are elements of envy here, I will not deny this.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3745 - 24/10/2020 11:05:52 Golf is completely elitist. linkIncredible how you are wrong in nearly every post. To you Irish media are right wing (they must be the most left wing and woke of any EU country), rugby in Ireland is the everymans game as opposed to hyped up and purely elitist....it's almost impressive.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 771 - 24/10/2020 11:52:50 No way at all is irish media most left wing in the EU." In no other country in the EU would Ibrahim Halawa be greeted as a hero on national tv and radio. Was simply extraordinary."
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4135 - 24/10/2020 18:04:28
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Replying To lilypad: "The meaning of left and right with the younger generation has taken on a life of its own. I think its pretty obvious at this stage that you're not permitted to have a middle or neutral view anymore.
In the old days it was the right v normal people now its the left against normal." No I'm left because I believe that people should have free access to healthcare ( which Ireland doesn't provide) and education and the likes. I also agree with alot of green policy and some social equality policy but not all of it. I see myself as pretty moderate and there is certainly still a right as much as a left. Sure what are the National party
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 24/10/2020 18:08:00
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Replying To Crinigan: "Woke is certainly not socially aware." Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is a political term originating in the United States referring to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice. A definition If "woke" in the context you used it that I lifted from The Wikipedia. It's the first one I came across. There are plenty more of them.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5166 - 24/10/2020 18:18:24
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Replying To cavanman47: " Replying To Crinigan: "[quote=KillingFields: " Correct. Having lived and worked among GAA haters in Dublin for decades, the anti Irish culture folks do exist, though, in my view, their numbers are diminishing. I worked in middle class white collar environments in Dublin, and their guard was down, as they assumed (wrongly) that GAA people were all blue collar, so I had a fascinating (and depressing) education in posh Irish cultural attitudes. The sniggering about "the Gah" and "diddley-aye" music. The natural assumption that wild GAA fans would vandalise their cars and property after matches in Croke Park. The faux concerns about the supposed "violence and thuggery" of Gaelic matches. The air of amused contempt on learning that I followed GAA, as if I wasn't yet fully civilised. The cultural loneliness of not being able to chat about a match with any colleagues, unless you were lucky enough to have a Kerry colleague as among all the yahs. (Kerry fans are, in my view, the most knowledgeable and the most objective / hard-headed GAA fans in the country.) Essentially, these anti GAA / anti trad people have inherited, and parrot, the attitudes of the English from 150 years earlier. They live in a sad and bitter little post-colonial bubble of posh bigotry which has direct cultural links right back to the establishment of the Pale and to the Statutes of Kilkenny. When I worked in white collar London, no English person had a clue about the GAA of course, but they were invariably open-minded and interested, with none of the petty snobbishness of their Irish counterparts.
But the posh Dubs (they never describe themselves as "Dubs" of course - and with that type of accent, it'd be pronounced "Dabs" anyway lol) are not the only anti-GAA cohort. The working class Dublin Premiership fan boy is even more bigoted; though the guys with a primary interest in local soccer tend to be grand.
Nor is it accurate, as some posters have done, to ascribe such attitudes to "the left". I'm afraid that the anti-GAA attitude co-exists naturally with a right wing, pro partition, anti Nationalist, middle class viewpoint. The GAA is also seen as representative of working class and rural culture, hence the Dublin middle class desire to distance yourself from the GAA is a way also of affirming your social status. For the Premiership fan boy, it's a way of affirming that you're not a yokel.
The reality is that, for varying reasons, the middle class right and the trendy left each have their reasons for dissing the GAA. It's quite contrived, and simply incorrect, to suggest that the anti GAA mentality is confined to a particular type of politics.
On a more positive note, my perception is that the anti-GAA cohort in the Irish urban middle class is in steep decline. In this century, it's been remarkable to see posh youngsters on Southside Luases carrying hurls.
It's why, even after 5 years of All Ireland misery, I never really begrudge the Dubs. And with the Tyrone team's safety-first brand of football (the Tyrone team plays a worse brand of football than the Tyrone clubs), it's just as well I don't mind the Dubs, as Tyrone's conservative style of play won't do much about it any time soon ...
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 760 - 24/10/2020 09:36:52 hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha That has to be a parody right? Yes there is bias against the GAA within journalism but it is not for idealistic reasons.
Journalists are going mad for click bait stories now more than ever. The GAA or any other game that is playing whilst covid 19 is at large, is a story that will sell. This is especially so if there are outbreaks and if other sporting bodies are unable to play while the GAA are.
For instance, the golfing community will feel very hard done by as they are not allowed to play for 6 weeks. Their game is perceived as being elitist and also has had negative press associated with it twice in relation to covid headlines. IF you audit their game, you will find that there is virtually zero chance of getting covid on the course.
Can we say the same about the GAA as a full contact sport and the spread of covid?
"Attacks" on the GAA by journalists are measured and calibrated commentaries. Same with rugby and soccer.
the GAA is a very easy target for journalism as the organisation enjoys money from the tax payer, sponsorship and finally from fund raising at local levels. It is impossible not to have an opinion about any organisation who enjoys all 3 levels of income mentioned above. (not to mention gate receipts).
Yes there are elements of envy here, I will not deny this.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3745 - 24/10/2020 11:05:52 Golf is completely elitist. linkIncredible how you are wrong in nearly every post. To you Irish media are right wing (they must be the most left wing and woke of any EU country), rugby in Ireland is the everymans game as opposed to hyped up and purely elitist....it's almost impressive.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 771 - 24/10/2020 11:52:50 No way at all is irish media most left wing in the EU." In no other country in the EU would Ibrahim Halawa be greeted as a hero on national tv and radio. Was simply extraordinary."
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 926 - 24/10/2020 18:58:22
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Replying To Greengrass: "Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is a political term originating in the United States referring to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice. A definition If "woke" in the context you used it that I lifted from The Wikipedia. It's the first one I came across. There are plenty more of them." Indeed that's what the definition is. Note the very important word "perceived"...
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 926 - 24/10/2020 19:00:07
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Replying To Breezy: "No I'm left because I believe that people should have free access to healthcare ( which Ireland doesn't provide) and education and the likes. I also agree with alot of green policy and some social equality policy but not all of it. I see myself as pretty moderate and there is certainly still a right as much as a left. Sure what are the National party" Idiots.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5955 - 24/10/2020 19:24:36
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Replying To Crinigan: "Indeed that's what the definition is. Note the very important word "perceived"..." Yup but as we all know perception is reality.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5166 - 24/10/2020 21:00:45
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Replying To Breezy: "No I'm left because I believe that people should have free access to healthcare ( which Ireland doesn't provide) and education and the likes. I also agree with alot of green policy and some social equality policy but not all of it. I see myself as pretty moderate and there is certainly still a right as much as a left. Sure what are the National party" The national party, are they even a party, outdated and small.
lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1357 - 24/10/2020 22:57:56
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i know in the 1970s and early 80s there was huge in migration to Dublin from rural ireland, amazing the amount of dublin players from these migrants. i wonder was there a big divide btween rural kids and dublin kids. its so funny the way the rural roots kids never fully embraced the old Dublin accent or isms . bernard brogan, paddy christie, dermot connolly you can see and here the raw ruralness in them so much compared to philly mcmahon. jim gavin too very rural isms
dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 532 - 25/10/2020 00:15:20
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Replying To lilypad: "The national party, are they even a party, outdated and small." Far right extremists. I stuck my fingers up at them the other day...anti mask wearing conspiracy theorist nut jobs.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10339 - 25/10/2020 08:15:47
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Replying To KillingFields: "Its not anti GAA people. Its people with common sense. And left wing media?? Give me a break.
Like most of ireland the media is significantly right wing. only have to look at the power dave quinn and iona institute. breda o brien etc have for example." I fall in the middle politics wise, I am certainly more left leaning than right but to suggest the Irish media is significantly right wing is laughable. There are a few attention seekers looking to draw attention to themselves, especially on twitter and on the radio but they are in a minority and for the large part ridiculed and rightly so because of some of the nonsense they spout.
And the likes of David Quinn and his buddies? They have no influence at all. Hardline catholics agree with their views but as we see in recent referendum results they are always on the wrong side of history so they can't have that much of an influence. They get wheeled out every so often to provide a balance during debates, that doesn't mean they are very influential.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6893 - 25/10/2020 09:59:31
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Replying To lilypad: "The national party, are they even a party, outdated and small." They can hardly be called a party at this stage. Ireland only in the naissance of the great multicultural experiment/catastrophe. Wait til we become Belgium, France and many parts of UK and Germany...no bacon allowed in schools, whole towns where all the women are covered head to toe in black and you get tapped on the shoulder if with an unveiled woman to be reminded that you are in a sharia law area and she must cover up or else, wait for the stabbings and beheading of teachers outside schools and priests at their altar , the consistent "accidental" burning of churches and cathedrals, the terror attacks and the huge concrete barriers dividing footpaths from the roads , the rape of single mothers in playgrounds... you'll have a far right party in Ireland soon enough then (I'm sure Irish media will do best to hide it though, like they do the gangs terrorizing Balbriggan and parts of Cork recently).
By the way all of the above examples have occurred in France in the past year. France beginning to fight back with dismantling of the Muslim Brotherhood network (the Halawas will be devastated) and Le Pen and far right are a shoo-in in next election.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 926 - 25/10/2020 11:39:45
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Replying To TheFlaker: "I fall in the middle politics wise, I am certainly more left leaning than right but to suggest the Irish media is significantly right wing is laughable. There are a few attention seekers looking to draw attention to themselves, especially on twitter and on the radio but they are in a minority and for the large part ridiculed and rightly so because of some of the nonsense they spout.
And the likes of David Quinn and his buddies? They have no influence at all. Hardline catholics agree with their views but as we see in recent referendum results they are always on the wrong side of history so they can't have that much of an influence. They get wheeled out every so often to provide a balance during debates, that doesn't mean they are very influential." The right wing is far more involved in media than left wing. There isnt any major left wing publication in the country
The likes of David Quinn, Breda O Brien do have influence considering their columns, tv appearances and everuthing else.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 25/10/2020 11:54:42
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Replying To Crinigan: "They can hardly be called a party at this stage. Ireland only in the naissance of the great multicultural experiment/catastrophe. Wait til we become Belgium, France and many parts of UK and Germany...no bacon allowed in schools, whole towns where all the women are covered head to toe in black and you get tapped on the shoulder if with an unveiled woman to be reminded that you are in a sharia law area and she must cover up or else, wait for the stabbings and beheading of teachers outside schools and priests at their altar , the consistent "accidental" burning of churches and cathedrals, the terror attacks and the huge concrete barriers dividing footpaths from the roads , the rape of single mothers in playgrounds... you'll have a far right party in Ireland soon enough then (I'm sure Irish media will do best to hide it though, like they do the gangs terrorizing Balbriggan and parts of Cork recently).
By the way all of the above examples have occurred in France in the past year. France beginning to fight back with dismantling of the Muslim Brotherhood network (the Halawas will be devastated) and Le Pen and far right are a shoo-in in next election." There is not a lot of Christianity in your post. We the Irish emigrated for hundreds of years. And had to work hard to succeed. We were also invaded and planted by our neighbours. There is a reason we all speak English today. Anyway why not give a Céad míle fáilte to the emigrants. And show our famous hospitality.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1927 - 25/10/2020 12:07:34
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Replying To Rolo2010: " Replying To KillingFields: "The meaning of left and right with the younger generation has taken on a life of its own. I think its pretty obvious at this stage that you're not permitted to have a middle or neutral view anymore.
In the old days it was the right v normal people now its the left against normal.
lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1334 - 24/10/2020 15:28:57What do you think is normal?
We're talking about today and not what happened in the past. Breda is irrelevant.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 80 - 24/10/2020 15:57:10Herself, Iona David Quinn etc are not irrelevant unfortunately through their role/actions in the media.
In no other country in the EU would Ibrahim Halawa be greeted as a hero on national tv and radio. Was simply extraordinary.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 773 - 24/10/2020 16:40:25 How was he greated as a hero?
Socially aware is worse. Can we not say 'too cool for school gobshi+e'?!!! Seriously, woke? Sending a few black lives matter gifs on WhatsApp and putting a few anti-racism photos and slogans on Facebook doesn't make you an activist, questionable even if you're a reactivist. And at the same time badmouthing travellers and immigrants and verbally abusing them. If you want to be concerned about racism putting stuff on social media won't stop some cops in the US being racist. But when your in LIDL or ALDI and one of the African or Eastern European staff might sound like they're being abrupt to you, don't look down their noses on them and abuse them but think they're working flat out in these challenging times dealing with us a in challenging times and their skin colour or nationality doesn't stop them having a bad day too. Start there. Be nice to people even if their not always nice back.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5870 - 24/10/2020 16:53:33Whats wrong with being socially aware?
Ive a lot of friends who are socially aware and they do lot more than post on whatsapp, facebook." Iona have lost the last 2 big social battles - same-sex marriage and abortion. They aren't that influential anymore."
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1927 - 25/10/2020 12:10:20
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Replying To Crinigan: "They can hardly be called a party at this stage. Ireland only in the naissance of the great multicultural experiment/catastrophe. Wait til we become Belgium, France and many parts of UK and Germany...no bacon allowed in schools, whole towns where all the women are covered head to toe in black and you get tapped on the shoulder if with an unveiled woman to be reminded that you are in a sharia law area and she must cover up or else, wait for the stabbings and beheading of teachers outside schools and priests at their altar , the consistent "accidental" burning of churches and cathedrals, the terror attacks and the huge concrete barriers dividing footpaths from the roads , the rape of single mothers in playgrounds... you'll have a far right party in Ireland soon enough then (I'm sure Irish media will do best to hide it though, like they do the gangs terrorizing Balbriggan and parts of Cork recently).
By the way all of the above examples have occurred in France in the past year. France beginning to fight back with dismantling of the Muslim Brotherhood network (the Halawas will be devastated) and Le Pen and far right are a shoo-in in next election." There isnt many parts of UK like that. This is paranoid nonsense even if some things have occured recently.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 25/10/2020 12:11:08
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Replying To KillingFields: "The right wing is far more involved in media than left wing. There isnt any major left wing publication in the country
The likes of David Quinn, Breda O Brien do have influence considering their columns, tv appearances and everuthing else." Ah stop man. They have a newspaper column so the paper can say it represents all views. TV appearances? Once every few months on Prime Time when a topic is being debated? You call that influential? When was the last time Quinn, O Brien or Ganley etc. have been on the right side of a debate prior to a referendum? They never are so that proves my point.
And what do you call majorly left wing? Vast majority of the papers are left leaning. Not sure how you can claim otherwise.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6893 - 25/10/2020 12:38:02
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Replying To galwayford: "There is not a lot of Christianity in your post. We the Irish emigrated for hundreds of years. And had to work hard to succeed. We were also invaded and planted by our neighbours. There is a reason we all speak English today. Anyway why not give a Céad míle fáilte to the emigrants. And show our famous hospitality." But we integrated. That is the vital point. I've no issue with immigration per se. My issue is with lack of integration and the fracture of society that it causes. Irish immigrants adapted by and large, married to other cultures, sold their properties to people from different cultures, didn't impose their culture too much or adapted it to fit.
Certain cultures do not integrate and I am not brushing all Muslims with the same brush here either. Many Bosnians (over a thousand in Blanch'town) and Albanians and Turks and Kurds have indeed integrated fantastically in Ireland but these are known moderate Islamic countries (Turkey under Erdogan gone backwards clearly).
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 926 - 25/10/2020 13:09:21
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Replying To galwayford: " Replying To Rolo2010: "[quote=KillingFields: "The meaning of left and right with the younger generation has taken on a life of its own. I think its pretty obvious at this stage that you're not permitted to have a middle or neutral view anymore.
In the old days it was the right v normal people now its the left against normal.
lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1334 - 24/10/2020 15:28:57What do you think is normal?
We're talking about today and not what happened in the past. Breda is irrelevant.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 80 - 24/10/2020 15:57:10Herself, Iona David Quinn etc are not irrelevant unfortunately through their role/actions in the media.
In no other country in the EU would Ibrahim Halawa be greeted as a hero on national tv and radio. Was simply extraordinary.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 773 - 24/10/2020 16:40:25 How was he greated as a hero?
Socially aware is worse. Can we not say 'too cool for school gobshi+e'?!!! Seriously, woke? Sending a few black lives matter gifs on WhatsApp and putting a few anti-racism photos and slogans on Facebook doesn't make you an activist, questionable even if you're a reactivist. And at the same time badmouthing travellers and immigrants and verbally abusing them. If you want to be concerned about racism putting stuff on social media won't stop some cops in the US being racist. But when your in LIDL or ALDI and one of the African or Eastern European staff might sound like they're being abrupt to you, don't look down their noses on them and abuse them but think they're working flat out in these challenging times dealing with us a in challenging times and their skin colour or nationality doesn't stop them having a bad day too. Start there. Be nice to people even if their not always nice back.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5870 - 24/10/2020 16:53:33Whats wrong with being socially aware?
Ive a lot of friends who are socially aware and they do lot more than post on whatsapp, facebook." Iona have lost the last 2 big social battles - same-sex marriage and abortion. They aren't that influential anymore."
lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1357 - 25/10/2020 13:12:55
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