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Can Success Be Bought With Money?

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Replying To Breffni39:  "When you think back to 1991 when Kerry Group, one of the largest multinationals in Ireland began sponsoring Kerry GAA. They were in the doldrums. Then just a few short years later they're contesting and winning multiple All-Irelands. Pretty sure they sponsored them with money and not magic beans so I'd had say there's merit in the suggestion yeah."
If only it were that simple....Kingspan have over 14,000 people working for them worldwide and had revenue of over 4 billion in 2018...why aren't Cavan winning All Ireland's...?

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10339 - 12/10/2020 17:10:55    2297062

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Replying To Fionn:  "
Replying To Crinigan:  "[quote=Stmunnsriver:  "can money really buy u sucess if u dont have the population? if some lad died in say america and left say carlow [or leitrim
gaa 200 million to win a senior all ireland in hurling or football in 10 years could they?"
No. You need the GAA on board to support you as well and you'll need to have all your matches at home, have your own dressing rooms, reserved terrace for your supporters and a population about 40 times that of competing counties. The money does help give you a professional setup though and a back room setup alone the size of other competing counties."]Jeez - you are in great form today....
Hope your shadow doesnt get too close to you today or it will be in big trouble.....

Perfect name by the way..."]Haha that's a good one tbf! I'm actually in flying form though! :)

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 926 - 12/10/2020 17:22:58    2297064

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Replying To yew_tree:  "If only it were that simple....Kingspan have over 14,000 people working for them worldwide and had revenue of over 4 billion in 2018...why aren't Cavan winning All Ireland's...?"
A Cavan man spend lots of money.?????? lol

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3309 - 12/10/2020 17:31:58    2297066

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Replying To yew_tree:  "If only it were that simple....Kingspan have over 14,000 people working for them worldwide and had revenue of over 4 billion in 2018...why aren't Cavan winning All Ireland's...?"
Too mane yew_tree, won't spend the money :-)

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8583 - 12/10/2020 17:33:27    2297068

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Interesting topic, previously I followed a thread on the games development funding but I can't say I've really seen breakdown comparing what county boards are actually spending on inter county team preparation, what they are getting for this money and what other services/ facilities are being provided free to them for team prep.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 768 - 12/10/2020 17:47:20    2297075

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "Incoming bitter Kerrymen in 3....2....1..."
That was quick. thread once again hijacked, time to move on, your Infatuation with Kerry posters is unhealthy.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 1432 - 12/10/2020 18:34:49    2297087

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "Interesting topic, previously I followed a thread on the games development funding but I can't say I've really seen breakdown comparing what county boards are actually spending on inter county team preparation, what they are getting for this money and what other services/ facilities are being provided free to them for team prep."
Games development and GAA central contributions are only half the story. ISC also provide funding to some counties and then you have commercial sponsorship which varies wildly from county to county, that won't be in the accounts. Added to that counties are not required to publish financial information as they are not incorporated, (albeit Dublin are).

If somebody did an impartial review of the whole space I would be interested to read it but like yourself I have never seen such a document. People on here will tell you to read the GAA accounts but they really don't tell you much apart from what the GAA are giving each county directly. You would need to do a detailed review of each counties financial statements/ treasurers report in order to get the full picture of what teams are spending and on what, but that information is not all that easy to get, certainly not online anyway. Fellas on here quoting figures from the GAA accounts as if they are experts on the topic are bluffing for the most part.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1957 - 12/10/2020 19:17:11    2297097

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If you have time and perseverance and good analysis skills it is possible to get a picture of a county overall turnover and also micro aspects of an overall profile. The bigger counties can turnover 5-7 million annually generally, but often through different means.

Expenditure is often trickier, exactly what, who, why money is spent is rarely detailed, more under generic headings.

I often wonder particularly around back room teams does location and attraction of location make a difference in term of caliber of recruitment. For example if Dublin were recruiting a nutritionalist or S/C coach would there be loads applying given the population of graduates in Dublin or the attraction of living in the county. Obviously the more apply the higher the competition for the best candidate. Equally with Galway or Cork, is it easier recruiting in urban areas and all that bring then more rural locations, meaning you may get more bang for your buck.

Maybe it works the other way to, with some wanting to live more rurally, curious though.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 12/10/2020 22:36:39    2297142

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Sure it can! Nobody calls Chelsea the "Pensioners" anymore. Money transformed the club!

Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 535 - 12/10/2020 23:55:37    2297154

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Ask the Dubs...

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 5828 - 13/10/2020 08:44:15    2297171

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Ask the Dubs..."
No need to "Ask the Dubs.." You tell us often enough !!

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2113 - 13/10/2020 09:35:41    2297178

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Ask the Dubs..."
the question was not meant as a cut at the dubs at all, in fact i believe money CANT buy success, its all to do with population in my opinion, i think itsd only right dublin get a bigger slice of the cake , they have more mouths to feed, its basic logic , the point of it is i thing its the bottom line is u need the bodies to play, u can pump all the money u can dream of into small counties, they will NEVER win an all ireland

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 1925 - 13/10/2020 10:06:03    2297183

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Replying To Stmunnsriver:  "the question was not meant as a cut at the dubs at all, in fact i believe money CANT buy success, its all to do with population in my opinion, i think itsd only right dublin get a bigger slice of the cake , they have more mouths to feed, its basic logic , the point of it is i thing its the bottom line is u need the bodies to play, u can pump all the money u can dream of into small counties, they will NEVER win an all ireland"
What's the answer then? Maybe deviding those counties with massive population in 2 or 4?

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11732 - 13/10/2020 10:14:54    2297185

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over the years a few teams in London have tried to buy their way to the London senior title and have failed and have ended up struggling. Other clubs who invest in a long term plans have been much more successful and are still thriving.
For long term success you need to invest the money in facilities, coaching, building your club county, a well organised board will develop in thrive. Whereas if you have a poor board and throw them a load of money they will just look at quick fixes which long term will not help.

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 1990 - 13/10/2020 10:30:06    2297189

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Replying To Stmunnsriver:  "the question was not meant as a cut at the dubs at all, in fact i believe money CANT buy success, its all to do with population in my opinion, i think itsd only right dublin get a bigger slice of the cake , they have more mouths to feed, its basic logic , the point of it is i thing its the bottom line is u need the bodies to play, u can pump all the money u can dream of into small counties, they will NEVER win an all ireland"
Those kerry boys will be calling for Dublin to be split in 2 or 4 now..... oh wait they just have..... ;o)
no talk of this when they are dominating...

They will want Cork split now also because population at this rate..... oh but maybe not - how many times have cork beaten them recently....

Dont hear Kilkenny hurlers calling for Dublin to split.

Common dominator here - kerry whinging because they are not top dog.
Get over it - it is Not your divine right to be top dog, even though you think it is....!

As another poster rightly commented - when Tyrone were dominating them - they were moaning about puke anti-football etc etc.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3309 - 13/10/2020 10:44:21    2297191

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Replying To Fionn:  "Those kerry boys will be calling for Dublin to be split in 2 or 4 now..... oh wait they just have..... ;o)
no talk of this when they are dominating...

They will want Cork split now also because population at this rate..... oh but maybe not - how many times have cork beaten them recently....

Dont hear Kilkenny hurlers calling for Dublin to split.

Common dominator here - kerry whinging because they are not top dog.
Get over it - it is Not your divine right to be top dog, even though you think it is....!

As another poster rightly commented - when Tyrone were dominating them - they were moaning about puke anti-football etc etc."
Jay's you're cranky this morning, it a valid question to ask is it not? dublin posters us the population argument as to why they should get 10 times more money than their nearest rivals saying they need that money to get as many people involved in gaelic games in yer county, so would it not be fair for those players to have a chance at playing intercounty football?

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11732 - 13/10/2020 11:06:40    2297197

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "What's the answer then? Maybe deviding those counties with massive population in 2 or 4?"
yes... and while were at it lets split China into 15 to give everyone else a chance at winning the world cup

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1922 - 13/10/2020 11:24:16    2297198

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TBH the dubs are sounding worse than the Kerry boys in this thread. Didn't need to say anything and you've played a blinder into their hands.

Personal thoughts are
1) You invest wisely in youth set up and build up your games development
2) Build development squads and facilities around those teams to keep them involved. Strength and conditioning, Nutrition etc
3) Develop a style of play thats common all the way through from those teams to senior level
4) Involve coaching set ups who move up with the teams and have a succession plan in place
5) Have strategic thinking that there's a five and ten year plan in place
6) Don't deviate from the plan

Its interesting that Tyrone did this from the mid 90's and the Dubs followed suit and the subsequent success they've had in bring teams through from underage into the senior set up. With the dubs we've all known who the next manager was and how the wheel would keep turning.

Flip that over to Kerry and they've had similar levels of investment per head of capita and have very few other competitor sports drawing players away and they've not yet managed to start a new period of domination. They've a great underage and junior set up, with is it 4/5 all irelands in a row at both grades but the senior set up is a little broken. They seem to be unsure of their identity and a plan. This needs to be worked out and then Kerry will be right back into things.

I only wish Meath would get their act together and drag themselves into the 21st century.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 909 - 13/10/2020 11:26:34    2297199

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "What's the answer then? Maybe deviding those counties with massive population in 2 or 4?"
6 in a row -:)

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2113 - 13/10/2020 11:55:00    2297209

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Replying To brian:  "TBH the dubs are sounding worse than the Kerry boys in this thread. Didn't need to say anything and you've played a blinder into their hands.

Personal thoughts are
1) You invest wisely in youth set up and build up your games development
2) Build development squads and facilities around those teams to keep them involved. Strength and conditioning, Nutrition etc
3) Develop a style of play thats common all the way through from those teams to senior level
4) Involve coaching set ups who move up with the teams and have a succession plan in place
5) Have strategic thinking that there's a five and ten year plan in place
6) Don't deviate from the plan

Its interesting that Tyrone did this from the mid 90's and the Dubs followed suit and the subsequent success they've had in bring teams through from underage into the senior set up. With the dubs we've all known who the next manager was and how the wheel would keep turning.

Flip that over to Kerry and they've had similar levels of investment per head of capita and have very few other competitor sports drawing players away and they've not yet managed to start a new period of domination. They've a great underage and junior set up, with is it 4/5 all irelands in a row at both grades but the senior set up is a little broken. They seem to be unsure of their identity and a plan. This needs to be worked out and then Kerry will be right back into things.

I only wish Meath would get their act together and drag themselves into the 21st century."
Great post.

Donegal were in the same boat up until about 2010. We were always capable of unearthing quality players and on our day could give any team in the country a bloody nose. But it was too ad-hoc and it meant we inevitably came a cropper against the better organized sides in Ulster like Tyrone and Armagh.

Since then however we've put the structures in place to harness the talent properly. We're a massive county with an advantage population wise. There has never been a bigger interest in football thanks to the successes we had in the earlier part of the decade at national level. There is a clear pathway now for lads from about u-15 all the way to senior. The components you mention such as nutrition and S&C are all tailored for. It means that the best players are never better prepared for when they make the step to senior.

The evidence is there that it's working. Before 2011 we hadn't won Ulster in almost 20 years. Our record since 2010 has drastically improved.

Referring back to the OP, all of this is great and all but it takes money, influence and determination to get those structures in place. It doesn't automatically mean you're guaranteed success - you still need good players to go out there ang put the ball over the bar. But it gives you a bloody good start.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7075 - 13/10/2020 11:57:13    2297211

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