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Replying To CiarraiMick: "A tad harsh Sam but maybe there s some truth in it but I don't know for sure. What I do know from talking to my fellow County men in Dublin and when I travel home and meet up with old friends and family ithere is no agenda and most admit that Dublin were and still are a great team. Also the common view us Tyrone also had our number and had some great players like Canavan and Kavanagh etc that are much admired down in the Kingdom. Also If you go back through this thread and other threads you will notice that while there is a lot of Kerry people on hoganstand it's only two or three and mainly two that constantly belittle the dubs achievements so please Do Not tar us all with the same brush. I Do Not agree with those naive views. I gave seen Kerry win and lose many finals and on many of the losses I and my fellow County men have shook hands with the victors" I'll tell you one thing Mick ,and I'm sure you don't need me to tell you this boy , you'll find that you will get a hard time of it for you're sportsmanship. You'll be told you're an imposter by those who prefer that they control the narrative and don't like it when the bully boy tactics don't put a lad off.
I am sure that Kerry supporters don't like the current dominance by the Dubs but it's good to know that there's a contingent that recognise them for what they are and can perhaps begrudgingly admire the standards that they have set for all others to try and emulate. The couple of posters you refer to are accommodated more than most on here by the moderators and I think there does need to be more stringent policing of how they continue to sidetrack every thread with their bitterness and downright bad manners.
I wish you the best of luck as long as you are posting here.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1647 - 05/10/2020 17:12:09
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Replying To catch22: "I'll tell you one thing Mick ,and I'm sure you don't need me to tell you this boy , you'll find that you will get a hard time of it for you're sportsmanship. You'll be told you're an imposter by those who prefer that they control the narrative and don't like it when the bully boy tactics don't put a lad off.
I am sure that Kerry supporters don't like the current dominance by the Dubs but it's good to know that there's a contingent that recognise them for what they are and can perhaps begrudgingly admire the standards that they have set for all others to try and emulate. The couple of posters you refer to are accommodated more than most on here by the moderators and I think there does need to be more stringent policing of how they continue to sidetrack every thread with their bitterness and downright bad manners.
I wish you the best of luck as long as you are posting here." Thank you Catch and wishing you well too.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 630 - 05/10/2020 17:38:19
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Replying To catch22: "I'll tell you one thing Mick ,and I'm sure you don't need me to tell you this boy , you'll find that you will get a hard time of it for you're sportsmanship. You'll be told you're an imposter by those who prefer that they control the narrative and don't like it when the bully boy tactics don't put a lad off.
I am sure that Kerry supporters don't like the current dominance by the Dubs but it's good to know that there's a contingent that recognise them for what they are and can perhaps begrudgingly admire the standards that they have set for all others to try and emulate. The couple of posters you refer to are accommodated more than most on here by the moderators and I think there does need to be more stringent policing of how they continue to sidetrack every thread with their bitterness and downright bad manners.
I wish you the best of luck as long as you are posting here." Stop your crawling boy :-)
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11732 - 05/10/2020 19:08:12
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Not always a fan of All Stars but for me Paudie Maher won six - the most of the decade in hurling and Brian Fenton has won four all stars and a player of the year in his first five years. Both also put many half forwards to shame in terms of the scores they regularly put up every year.
All Stars isn't the reason I picked both but it backs up my point that they have been the two most influential players in the country. Paudie over the whole decade and Fenton has done more in five years than most of the rest mentioned in a whole career. Incredibly consistent also and both rarely miss a minute.
I remember watching Fenton's first or second game and I was laughed out of the house when I said he's going to be one of the greats. I think he has already achieved that.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 2911 - 05/10/2020 23:19:17
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Sees interesting topic. Hmmm I'll look at that
Goes to last page, multiple posts from familiar faces throwing the same mud that's in most other threads.
See post accusing "the dubs" of starting it
Goes to first page, sees good reasoned debated by people from multiple counties.
Gets to page 3, kerryman takes umbrage, decries GAA, Dublin's money, how Kerry we're wronged, calls Dublin poster a wind up merchant
Turns to page 4 Kerry men can't debate a point properly and starts insulting people, accuses fellow kerryman of being from Dublin, questions other posters being closet dubs..
Page 5 multiquotes and no idea where a point starts and ends...
rinse repeat and I'm bored
By page 3 little to no discussion on the actual topic of the thread....
Anyaways for me dunno what parameters are around a generation and when it starts is in its middle or ends... I mean have we not had multiple threads on best team since 00, and 10 - 20 etc
Anyways I think of this generation 05 - 20 if a team has won 7 All Ireland titles they've a huge claim to a lot of the best of,...
For me
Dublin cluxton, McCarthy, mccaffrey, Fenton, rock, brogans, Mannion Connolly on his day... Kilkenny is vastly over rated for handling and hand passing the ball a lot
Kerry gooch, Declan o,Sullivan, Marc and Tomas(dara was on the wane I think)
Mayo Keegan
Tyrone Kavanagh, O'Neill
Donegal Lacey, murphy
Monaghan McManus
I'm sure I've missed some and Kerry posters will be upset at their "representation" It it's late and I'm tired so ...cest la vie
brian (Meath) - Posts: 909 - 06/10/2020 01:44:15
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Stop your crawling boy :-)" Eamonn Fitzmaurice, the former Kerry player and manager had a really good piece in the Examiner on Connolly. It was informative, objective and well-written.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 31 - 06/10/2020 06:41:33
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Replying To brian: "Sees interesting topic. Hmmm I'll look at that
Goes to last page, multiple posts from familiar faces throwing the same mud that's in most other threads.
See post accusing "the dubs" of starting it
Goes to first page, sees good reasoned debated by people from multiple counties.
Gets to page 3, kerryman takes umbrage, decries GAA, Dublin's money, how Kerry we're wronged, calls Dublin poster a wind up merchant
Turns to page 4 Kerry men can't debate a point properly and starts insulting people, accuses fellow kerryman of being from Dublin, questions other posters being closet dubs..
Page 5 multiquotes and no idea where a point starts and ends...
rinse repeat and I'm bored
By page 3 little to no discussion on the actual topic of the thread....
Anyaways for me dunno what parameters are around a generation and when it starts is in its middle or ends... I mean have we not had multiple threads on best team since 00, and 10 - 20 etc
Anyways I think of this generation 05 - 20 if a team has won 7 All Ireland titles they've a huge claim to a lot of the best of,...
For me
Dublin cluxton, McCarthy, mccaffrey, Fenton, rock, brogans, Mannion Connolly on his day... Kilkenny is vastly over rated for handling and hand passing the ball a lot
Kerry gooch, Declan o,Sullivan, Marc and Tomas(dara was on the wane I think)
Mayo Keegan
Tyrone Kavanagh, O'Neill
Donegal Lacey, murphy
Monaghan McManus
I'm sure I've missed some and Kerry posters will be upset at their "representation" It it's late and I'm tired so ...cest la vie" Blaming everything on Dublin's money is the Godwin's law of Hoganstand
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 06/10/2020 10:45:48
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Well no surprise to see the reaction to my post from some of the usual suspects.
This is all I'm going to say on the matter and I'll leave it at that.
First, please point out anything that I have said that is wrong, or inaccurate, or is made up and plain lies?
You see the "shout you down for dare bringing up a well known and heavily reported issue" brigade on here would like to portray anyone critical of Dublin and their dominance as some mad crackpot, "tinfoil hat wearing" conspiracy theorist. You'd swear I was discussing something that wasn't based in FACT, that hasn't been well known for years and that isn't an issue that has had tens of thousands of words printed about it in every newspaper, and has not been extensively discussed on national radio and television!!
This is not a conspiracy theory it is FACT. Everyone knows what has gone on, yet so many of you refuse to set any discussion of Dublin and their players achievements within that most necessary context as if, contrary to every known study on sport, the GAA is different and access to huge amounts of money at all levels for a county's GAA setup does not matter to a team's success! To say nothing of home advantage, competition structures skewed to favouring them etc.
I never claimed money was all it took; I have never claimed Dublin are some rag-tag of journey men that were made superstars by Croke Park cheques. They would have won plenty this past ten years. But they would never have dominated to this unprecedented extent if it wasn't for the FACT that they are so hugely funded in comparison to anyone else. Not just the nearly rans but also everyone of their main rivals.
We are not talking about one county just manging to get, through their own endeavours, a little more than their main rivals. We are talking about one county being systematically funded 20 times that of their nearest rival (by Croke Park money alone). That's not even considering the rest of the funding they received from State agencies or the massive commercial revenue they are allowed. But somehow that has not made any difference?
Somehow having a development officer attached to every school or club while other counties have 1 or 2 covering multiple clubs/schools across massive geographical areas is not a benefit. Somehow being able to pay for a small army of backroom personal with expertise on every possible facet of sport science is not a help? Somehow paid expert coaching all the way up does not make players better?
The fact so many of you refuse to accept this simple point is very worrying for the future of this sport. Whatever about the Dubs, I'd be fascinated to understand the mentality behind this from some of the rest of you.
I could actually stomach some of the Dubs on here if even one was gracious enough to acknowledge the massive funding imbalance has contributed to Dublin's success. But no, they refuse to accept that incredibly basic premise because they know deep down how much truth there is to it.
Sam1884 you've posted some more utter guff earlier. You claim that all this is some Kerry orchestrated witch-hunt at a national level?? I'm sorry Sam can you explain to me what Kerry people run RTE, or the Irish Times or the Independent etc etc. Is Kevin McStay from Kerry, I never knew that. I know Colm Parkinson played with IT Tralee for a couple of years maybe that makes him a Kerryman too. That's just to pick two critical voices among so many in the GAA world.
You go to any GAA clubhouse or pub in Ireland today outside of Dublin and you'll hear plenty of people discussing this issue and being angry and frustrated (as I most certainly am) about how one county has been privileged and facilitated to win above all others.
Which brings me to another point, the constant stupidity on here by claiming anything critical of Dublin is a "thread getting hijacked and descending into a Kerry/Dublin thing".
This is not a Kerry/Dublin thing, it is a fundamental crisis in the inter-county game, it's a Dublin v every other county and the future sustainability of the All Ireland as a concept thing.
And just because on here a few Kerry posters are vocal on the subject (as we should be) will you stop trying to paint it as that as a childish way of trying to belittle anyone wanting to discuss a fundamental crisis in the GAA.
It is absolutely pathetic that so many of you can't simply deal with dissenting voices and have the utter inability to take accept opposing viewpoints and opinions that challenge your perceptions. Even when what they are discussing is a well know issue that been constantly highlighted far and wide! But that's the twitter generation I suppose.
So you can all go back to convincing yourself that anything critical said about Dublin is just the ravings of embittered Kerrymen and no one else - in the same way you can convince yourself climate change is a lie because, sure wasn't the weather this summer crap!!
Finally, can you people all stop with the, "oh your letting yourself/your county down there with this" garbage. I'm a poster on an internet forum. From time to time I like to speak my mind and share my opinion.
What I posted was, in my opinion, completely relevant to any discussion on how Dublin's players should be judge compared to their opponents.
I am not here to "represent" Kerry's good name or tradition or by my thoughts reinforce or challenge your perceptions of what Kerry GAA is. Do some of you ever actually read this crap you write before you post it?!!
Do you think I should be ashamed or made to feel I can't express a perfectly reasonable opinion because what a bunch of strangers behind a keyboard might think about me (and aren't slow in telling me the same)? To those people on here I'll say this, I couldn't give a damn what you might think of me and I think its quite worrying that you are obviously so concerned what strangers on an internet forum might think of you that you would believe anyone would be worried by you telling them what your personal opinion of them is!
For example, if I judged Dublin GAA fans by what most Dublin posters write on here, I'd cross the road to avoid them after every game. Thankfully Hoganstand and the real world are a good bit different.
So to sum up, I gave an opinion that I feel is relevant to judging Dublin's success and that of their players.
If you want I can spend 20mins on google supplying links to dozens of pieces on the current situation between Dublin and funding for those of you who lived under a rock these past 4 years and have no idea what is going on.
And lastly just because there is a certain brigade of posters on here that like to act as the thought police- shouting down/belittling/insulting anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview - that isn't going to stop me expressing a valid point or opinion as troubling as some of you seem to find it.
But if your all so worried about myself and my vile propaganda why don't you organise a petition to ban me - it might make you all feel better.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 5828 - 06/10/2020 10:52:55
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Replying To Breezy: "Blaming everything on Dublin's money is the Godwin's law of Hoganstand" You see the problem on hoganstand breezy is that a lot of the dublin posters have multiple accounts and they run the narrative using these accounts , you can't debate anything dublin you're just supposed to bow down and bend the knee and don't mention €€€€ cos that's whinging and bad sportsmanship even though it is very relivent to conversations involving the dubs.
Now you being from limerick you're probably a hurling man and you might only follow football as a 2nd or 3rd sport so it probably won't bother you about the money being pumped in but eventually dublin are going to take over the hurling the same way the have the football, it'll take a little longer due to their hurlers starting point compared to their footballers.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11732 - 06/10/2020 11:20:29
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Can i make a suggestion to The Hermit and Kingdom Boy.
Could you maybe stick to discussing the actual point of topic. This was about best talent of a generation and it was dragged into a discussion of its all about the $$$$. Dub's have money, existential crisis, on and on ad nauseum followed on with insulting people and telling them from on high how they're wrong and statements of opinion as fact and then essay's about something totally unrelated to the original topic of the thread. Multiple other topics have gone exactly the same way
If you want to talk about the financial doping and yes there's an element of truth in it, set up a separate thread and have a proper discussion about it over there. But please try and stay on topic, people generally are trying to talk about.
We all know you're both passionate about football, that much is obvious but when you constantly drag every discussion down to Dublin financial doping and how Kerry have been wronged it gets old quick. People might actually have better things to say if you actually discuss the topic and leave it at that.
I'm not trying to police or that but it would be god to see a thread where people give opinions and everyone has a fair and reasoned discussion about that point.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 909 - 06/10/2020 11:46:06
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Replying To brian: "Can i make a suggestion to The Hermit and Kingdom Boy.
Could you maybe stick to discussing the actual point of topic. This was about best talent of a generation and it was dragged into a discussion of its all about the $$$$. Dub's have money, existential crisis, on and on ad nauseum followed on with insulting people and telling them from on high how they're wrong and statements of opinion as fact and then essay's about something totally unrelated to the original topic of the thread. Multiple other topics have gone exactly the same way
If you want to talk about the financial doping and yes there's an element of truth in it, set up a separate thread and have a proper discussion about it over there. But please try and stay on topic, people generally are trying to talk about.
We all know you're both passionate about football, that much is obvious but when you constantly drag every discussion down to Dublin financial doping and how Kerry have been wronged it gets old quick. People might actually have better things to say if you actually discuss the topic and leave it at that.
I'm not trying to police or that but it would be god to see a thread where people give opinions and everyone has a fair and reasoned discussion about that point." I tried a couple of times over the past couple of years to start a recurring thread where I could post up links to new evidence, debates etc about the Dublin GAA situation.
For whatever reason the topics were never allowed to appear on the forum. Make of that what you will.
And to reiterate in my opinion what I have talked about in my two posts is very relevant to any discussion about judging Dublin players individually and collectively, how could it not be?
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 5828 - 06/10/2020 12:06:01
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Replying To Breffni39: "Poor aul Kerry" Aye the poor cratúrs. Kerrygold must only have been providing the butter for their post match spuds all these years....
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7075 - 06/10/2020 12:19:36
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Lads it's abundantly clear that the yerra boys on here just don't get it and they never will. They've been reared to believe every All Ireland is their's to lose so every other county winning Sam has to come with a caveat to explain why Kerry didn't. It's a waste of time trying to reason with them. They're just never gonna see you as an equal in the discussion.
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11690 - 06/10/2020 12:29:59
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Replying To TheHermit: "Well no surprise to see the reaction to my post from some of the usual suspects.
This is all I'm going to say on the matter and I'll leave it at that.
First, please point out anything that I have said that is wrong, or inaccurate, or is made up and plain lies?
You see the "shout you down for dare bringing up a well known and heavily reported issue" brigade on here would like to portray anyone critical of Dublin and their dominance as some mad crackpot, "tinfoil hat wearing" conspiracy theorist. You'd swear I was discussing something that wasn't based in FACT, that hasn't been well known for years and that isn't an issue that has had tens of thousands of words printed about it in every newspaper, and has not been extensively discussed on national radio and television!!
This is not a conspiracy theory it is FACT. Everyone knows what has gone on, yet so many of you refuse to set any discussion of Dublin and their players achievements within that most necessary context as if, contrary to every known study on sport, the GAA is different and access to huge amounts of money at all levels for a county's GAA setup does not matter to a team's success! To say nothing of home advantage, competition structures skewed to favouring them etc.
I never claimed money was all it took; I have never claimed Dublin are some rag-tag of journey men that were made superstars by Croke Park cheques. They would have won plenty this past ten years. But they would never have dominated to this unprecedented extent if it wasn't for the FACT that they are so hugely funded in comparison to anyone else. Not just the nearly rans but also everyone of their main rivals.
We are not talking about one county just manging to get, through their own endeavours, a little more than their main rivals. We are talking about one county being systematically funded 20 times that of their nearest rival (by Croke Park money alone). That's not even considering the rest of the funding they received from State agencies or the massive commercial revenue they are allowed. But somehow that has not made any difference?
Somehow having a development officer attached to every school or club while other counties have 1 or 2 covering multiple clubs/schools across massive geographical areas is not a benefit. Somehow being able to pay for a small army of backroom personal with expertise on every possible facet of sport science is not a help? Somehow paid expert coaching all the way up does not make players better?
The fact so many of you refuse to accept this simple point is very worrying for the future of this sport. Whatever about the Dubs, I'd be fascinated to understand the mentality behind this from some of the rest of you.
I could actually stomach some of the Dubs on here if even one was gracious enough to acknowledge the massive funding imbalance has contributed to Dublin's success. But no, they refuse to accept that incredibly basic premise because they know deep down how much truth there is to it.
Sam1884 you've posted some more utter guff earlier. You claim that all this is some Kerry orchestrated witch-hunt at a national level?? I'm sorry Sam can you explain to me what Kerry people run RTE, or the Irish Times or the Independent etc etc. Is Kevin McStay from Kerry, I never knew that. I know Colm Parkinson played with IT Tralee for a couple of years maybe that makes him a Kerryman too. That's just to pick two critical voices among so many in the GAA world.
You go to any GAA clubhouse or pub in Ireland today outside of Dublin and you'll hear plenty of people discussing this issue and being angry and frustrated (as I most certainly am) about how one county has been privileged and facilitated to win above all others.
Which brings me to another point, the constant stupidity on here by claiming anything critical of Dublin is a "thread getting hijacked and descending into a Kerry/Dublin thing".
This is not a Kerry/Dublin thing, it is a fundamental crisis in the inter-county game, it's a Dublin v every other county and the future sustainability of the All Ireland as a concept thing.
And just because on here a few Kerry posters are vocal on the subject (as we should be) will you stop trying to paint it as that as a childish way of trying to belittle anyone wanting to discuss a fundamental crisis in the GAA.
It is absolutely pathetic that so many of you can't simply deal with dissenting voices and have the utter inability to take accept opposing viewpoints and opinions that challenge your perceptions. Even when what they are discussing is a well know issue that been constantly highlighted far and wide! But that's the twitter generation I suppose.
So you can all go back to convincing yourself that anything critical said about Dublin is just the ravings of embittered Kerrymen and no one else - in the same way you can convince yourself climate change is a lie because, sure wasn't the weather this summer crap!!
Finally, can you people all stop with the, "oh your letting yourself/your county down there with this" garbage. I'm a poster on an internet forum. From time to time I like to speak my mind and share my opinion.
What I posted was, in my opinion, completely relevant to any discussion on how Dublin's players should be judge compared to their opponents.
I am not here to "represent" Kerry's good name or tradition or by my thoughts reinforce or challenge your perceptions of what Kerry GAA is. Do some of you ever actually read this crap you write before you post it?!!
Do you think I should be ashamed or made to feel I can't express a perfectly reasonable opinion because what a bunch of strangers behind a keyboard might think about me (and aren't slow in telling me the same)? To those people on here I'll say this, I couldn't give a damn what you might think of me and I think its quite worrying that you are obviously so concerned what strangers on an internet forum might think of you that you would believe anyone would be worried by you telling them what your personal opinion of them is!
For example, if I judged Dublin GAA fans by what most Dublin posters write on here, I'd cross the road to avoid them after every game. Thankfully Hoganstand and the real world are a good bit different.
So to sum up, I gave an opinion that I feel is relevant to judging Dublin's success and that of their players.
If you want I can spend 20mins on google supplying links to dozens of pieces on the current situation between Dublin and funding for those of you who lived under a rock these past 4 years and have no idea what is going on.
And lastly just because there is a certain brigade of posters on here that like to act as the thought police- shouting down/belittling/insulting anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview - that isn't going to stop me expressing a valid point or opinion as troubling as some of you seem to find it.
But if your all so worried about myself and my vile propaganda why don't you organise a petition to ban me - it might make you all feel better." [/quoteThe problem for you lad is that you have a short memory and had you and your ilk had the good grace and a small bit of class instead of the pathetic attempts you boys made to undermine and discredit Tyrone"a victories over ye you might have some credibility Now yourself and your sidekick are happy to sidle up and say it was all just a misunderstanding see as you are not being dominated by them.
You're on here repeatedly telling anyone who will listen about how hard done by Kerry are whenever yer beaten so cop onto yourself a small bit as you haven't a jot of credibility left and you could have spared yourself that yawn of a rant.
By the way there's plenty of your own county men who have been nothing but complimentary and acknowledged what the Dubs have achieved but then again they actually played the game and have some idea of what they are talking about.
Lastly , it shows just how arrogant you are by suggesting anyone would go to the bother of arranging a petition to get rid of you. More delusional nonsense.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1647 - 06/10/2020 12:50:19
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Replying To TheHermit: "I tried a couple of times over the past couple of years to start a recurring thread where I could post up links to new evidence, debates etc about the Dublin GAA situation.
For whatever reason the topics were never allowed to appear on the forum. Make of that what you will.
And to reiterate in my opinion what I have talked about in my two posts is very relevant to any discussion about judging Dublin players individually and collectively, how could it not be?" Hermit, fair points well made.
I'd disagree though on the dublin players thing. Every player has to have some level of ability to even make it to county teams. Yes the Dubs might have more resources there to further improve them but I would say some Kerry players have more natural ability so are already at a higher level. But to say the money has a huge impact on there performance belittles the effort all of those players have put into improving themselves individually and collectively. They're a driven bunch (much like the great Kerry team of the 70's and 80's) who work to find a percentage point to improve each year. That deserves to be talked about with out looking at money.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 909 - 06/10/2020 13:02:43
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "You see the problem on hoganstand breezy is that a lot of the dublin posters have multiple accounts and they run the narrative using these accounts , you can't debate anything dublin you're just supposed to bow down and bend the knee and don't mention €€€€ cos that's whinging and bad sportsmanship even though it is very relivent to conversations involving the dubs.
Now you being from limerick you're probably a hurling man and you might only follow football as a 2nd or 3rd sport so it probably won't bother you about the money being pumped in but eventually dublin are going to take over the hurling the same way the have the football, it'll take a little longer due to their hurlers starting point compared to their footballers." From 2000-2015, Kilkenny won 10 hurling All Ireland's. That's what hurling people had to endure for a decade and a half.
Tipperary for example were brilliant in that era but only managed 2 all Ireland's.
Hurling counties were up against a level of dominance that puts Dublin into perspective in my opinion..
I think that the problem you have is the perception whether fair or not is basic jealousy that a better team that yourselves has come along.
In fact if any county has a right to complain about Dublin finances It would be Mayo, considering they were so close to getting over the line on so many occasions but couldn't do it. Yet I don't think I have ever read a Mayo supporter on here relentlessly bang on about Dublins advantages.
Its not that I disagree with you it's just that every thread seems to end in the same old argument..
Its not censorship to wish that an interesting GAA thread doesn't end up the same way all the time.
skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 710 - 06/10/2020 13:30:22
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So we're all in agreement on Cluxton then. ;)
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 06/10/2020 13:45:18
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Replying To catch22: " Replying To TheHermit: "Well no surprise to see the reaction to my post from some of the usual suspects.
This is all I'm going to say on the matter and I'll leave it at that.
First, please point out anything that I have said that is wrong, or inaccurate, or is made up and plain lies?
You see the "shout you down for dare bringing up a well known and heavily reported issue" brigade on here would like to portray anyone critical of Dublin and their dominance as some mad crackpot, "tinfoil hat wearing" conspiracy theorist. You'd swear I was discussing something that wasn't based in FACT, that hasn't been well known for years and that isn't an issue that has had tens of thousands of words printed about it in every newspaper, and has not been extensively discussed on national radio and television!!
This is not a conspiracy theory it is FACT. Everyone knows what has gone on, yet so many of you refuse to set any discussion of Dublin and their players achievements within that most necessary context as if, contrary to every known study on sport, the GAA is different and access to huge amounts of money at all levels for a county's GAA setup does not matter to a team's success! To say nothing of home advantage, competition structures skewed to favouring them etc.
I never claimed money was all it took; I have never claimed Dublin are some rag-tag of journey men that were made superstars by Croke Park cheques. They would have won plenty this past ten years. But they would never have dominated to this unprecedented extent if it wasn't for the FACT that they are so hugely funded in comparison to anyone else. Not just the nearly rans but also everyone of their main rivals.
We are not talking about one county just manging to get, through their own endeavours, a little more than their main rivals. We are talking about one county being systematically funded 20 times that of their nearest rival (by Croke Park money alone). That's not even considering the rest of the funding they received from State agencies or the massive commercial revenue they are allowed. But somehow that has not made any difference?
Somehow having a development officer attached to every school or club while other counties have 1 or 2 covering multiple clubs/schools across massive geographical areas is not a benefit. Somehow being able to pay for a small army of backroom personal with expertise on every possible facet of sport science is not a help? Somehow paid expert coaching all the way up does not make players better?
The fact so many of you refuse to accept this simple point is very worrying for the future of this sport. Whatever about the Dubs, I'd be fascinated to understand the mentality behind this from some of the rest of you.
I could actually stomach some of the Dubs on here if even one was gracious enough to acknowledge the massive funding imbalance has contributed to Dublin's success. But no, they refuse to accept that incredibly basic premise because they know deep down how much truth there is to it.
Sam1884 you've posted some more utter guff earlier. You claim that all this is some Kerry orchestrated witch-hunt at a national level?? I'm sorry Sam can you explain to me what Kerry people run RTE, or the Irish Times or the Independent etc etc. Is Kevin McStay from Kerry, I never knew that. I know Colm Parkinson played with IT Tralee for a couple of years maybe that makes him a Kerryman too. That's just to pick two critical voices among so many in the GAA world.
You go to any GAA clubhouse or pub in Ireland today outside of Dublin and you'll hear plenty of people discussing this issue and being angry and frustrated (as I most certainly am) about how one county has been privileged and facilitated to win above all others.
Which brings me to another point, the constant stupidity on here by claiming anything critical of Dublin is a "thread getting hijacked and descending into a Kerry/Dublin thing".
This is not a Kerry/Dublin thing, it is a fundamental crisis in the inter-county game, it's a Dublin v every other county and the future sustainability of the All Ireland as a concept thing.
And just because on here a few Kerry posters are vocal on the subject (as we should be) will you stop trying to paint it as that as a childish way of trying to belittle anyone wanting to discuss a fundamental crisis in the GAA.
It is absolutely pathetic that so many of you can't simply deal with dissenting voices and have the utter inability to take accept opposing viewpoints and opinions that challenge your perceptions. Even when what they are discussing is a well know issue that been constantly highlighted far and wide! But that's the twitter generation I suppose.
So you can all go back to convincing yourself that anything critical said about Dublin is just the ravings of embittered Kerrymen and no one else - in the same way you can convince yourself climate change is a lie because, sure wasn't the weather this summer crap!!
Finally, can you people all stop with the, "oh your letting yourself/your county down there with this" garbage. I'm a poster on an internet forum. From time to time I like to speak my mind and share my opinion.
What I posted was, in my opinion, completely relevant to any discussion on how Dublin's players should be judge compared to their opponents.
I am not here to "represent" Kerry's good name or tradition or by my thoughts reinforce or challenge your perceptions of what Kerry GAA is. Do some of you ever actually read this crap you write before you post it?!!
Do you think I should be ashamed or made to feel I can't express a perfectly reasonable opinion because what a bunch of strangers behind a keyboard might think about me (and aren't slow in telling me the same)? To those people on here I'll say this, I couldn't give a damn what you might think of me and I think its quite worrying that you are obviously so concerned what strangers on an internet forum might think of you that you would believe anyone would be worried by you telling them what your personal opinion of them is!
For example, if I judged Dublin GAA fans by what most Dublin posters write on here, I'd cross the road to avoid them after every game. Thankfully Hoganstand and the real world are a good bit different.
So to sum up, I gave an opinion that I feel is relevant to judging Dublin's success and that of their players.
If you want I can spend 20mins on google supplying links to dozens of pieces on the current situation between Dublin and funding for those of you who lived under a rock these past 4 years and have no idea what is going on.
And lastly just because there is a certain brigade of posters on here that like to act as the thought police- shouting down/belittling/insulting anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview - that isn't going to stop me expressing a valid point or opinion as troubling as some of you seem to find it.
But if your all so worried about myself and my vile propaganda why don't you organise a petition to ban me - it might make you all feel better." [/quoteThe problem for you lad is that you have a short memory and had you and your ilk had the good grace and a small bit of class instead of the pathetic attempts you boys made to undermine and discredit Tyrone"a victories over ye you might have some credibility Now yourself and your sidekick are happy to sidle up and say it was all just a misunderstanding see as you are not being dominated by them. You're on here repeatedly telling anyone who will listen about how hard done by Kerry are whenever yer beaten so cop onto yourself a small bit as you haven't a jot of credibility left and you could have spared yourself that yawn of a rant. By the way there's plenty of your own county men who have been nothing but complimentary and acknowledged what the Dubs have achieved but then again they actually played the game and have some idea of what they are talking about. Lastly , it shows just how arrogant you are by suggesting anyone would go to the bother of arranging a petition to get rid of you. More delusional nonsense."
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 31 - 06/10/2020 13:53:24
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Aye the poor cratúrs. Kerrygold must only have been providing the butter for their post match spuds all these years...." I had 5 big flowery spuds for dinner last night with lashings of kerrygold butter, which is hands down the best butter in the world.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11732 - 06/10/2020 14:15:40
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Replying To catch22: " Replying To TheHermit: "Well no surprise to see the reaction to my post from some of the usual suspects.
This is all I'm going to say on the matter and I'll leave it at that.
First, please point out anything that I have said that is wrong, or inaccurate, or is made up and plain lies?
You see the "shout you down for dare bringing up a well known and heavily reported issue" brigade on here would like to portray anyone critical of Dublin and their dominance as some mad crackpot, "tinfoil hat wearing" conspiracy theorist. You'd swear I was discussing something that wasn't based in FACT, that hasn't been well known for years and that isn't an issue that has had tens of thousands of words printed about it in every newspaper, and has not been extensively discussed on national radio and television!!
This is not a conspiracy theory it is FACT. Everyone knows what has gone on, yet so many of you refuse to set any discussion of Dublin and their players achievements within that most necessary context as if, contrary to every known study on sport, the GAA is different and access to huge amounts of money at all levels for a county's GAA setup does not matter to a team's success! To say nothing of home advantage, competition structures skewed to favouring them etc.
I never claimed money was all it took; I have never claimed Dublin are some rag-tag of journey men that were made superstars by Croke Park cheques. They would have won plenty this past ten years. But they would never have dominated to this unprecedented extent if it wasn't for the FACT that they are so hugely funded in comparison to anyone else. Not just the nearly rans but also everyone of their main rivals.
We are not talking about one county just manging to get, through their own endeavours, a little more than their main rivals. We are talking about one county being systematically funded 20 times that of their nearest rival (by Croke Park money alone). That's not even considering the rest of the funding they received from State agencies or the massive commercial revenue they are allowed. But somehow that has not made any difference?
Somehow having a development officer attached to every school or club while other counties have 1 or 2 covering multiple clubs/schools across massive geographical areas is not a benefit. Somehow being able to pay for a small army of backroom personal with expertise on every possible facet of sport science is not a help? Somehow paid expert coaching all the way up does not make players better?
The fact so many of you refuse to accept this simple point is very worrying for the future of this sport. Whatever about the Dubs, I'd be fascinated to understand the mentality behind this from some of the rest of you.
I could actually stomach some of the Dubs on here if even one was gracious enough to acknowledge the massive funding imbalance has contributed to Dublin's success. But no, they refuse to accept that incredibly basic premise because they know deep down how much truth there is to it.
Sam1884 you've posted some more utter guff earlier. You claim that all this is some Kerry orchestrated witch-hunt at a national level?? I'm sorry Sam can you explain to me what Kerry people run RTE, or the Irish Times or the Independent etc etc. Is Kevin McStay from Kerry, I never knew that. I know Colm Parkinson played with IT Tralee for a couple of years maybe that makes him a Kerryman too. That's just to pick two critical voices among so many in the GAA world.
You go to any GAA clubhouse or pub in Ireland today outside of Dublin and you'll hear plenty of people discussing this issue and being angry and frustrated (as I most certainly am) about how one county has been privileged and facilitated to win above all others.
Which brings me to another point, the constant stupidity on here by claiming anything critical of Dublin is a "thread getting hijacked and descending into a Kerry/Dublin thing".
This is not a Kerry/Dublin thing, it is a fundamental crisis in the inter-county game, it's a Dublin v every other county and the future sustainability of the All Ireland as a concept thing.
And just because on here a few Kerry posters are vocal on the subject (as we should be) will you stop trying to paint it as that as a childish way of trying to belittle anyone wanting to discuss a fundamental crisis in the GAA.
It is absolutely pathetic that so many of you can't simply deal with dissenting voices and have the utter inability to take accept opposing viewpoints and opinions that challenge your perceptions. Even when what they are discussing is a well know issue that been constantly highlighted far and wide! But that's the twitter generation I suppose.
So you can all go back to convincing yourself that anything critical said about Dublin is just the ravings of embittered Kerrymen and no one else - in the same way you can convince yourself climate change is a lie because, sure wasn't the weather this summer crap!!
Finally, can you people all stop with the, "oh your letting yourself/your county down there with this" garbage. I'm a poster on an internet forum. From time to time I like to speak my mind and share my opinion.
What I posted was, in my opinion, completely relevant to any discussion on how Dublin's players should be judge compared to their opponents.
I am not here to "represent" Kerry's good name or tradition or by my thoughts reinforce or challenge your perceptions of what Kerry GAA is. Do some of you ever actually read this crap you write before you post it?!!
Do you think I should be ashamed or made to feel I can't express a perfectly reasonable opinion because what a bunch of strangers behind a keyboard might think about me (and aren't slow in telling me the same)? To those people on here I'll say this, I couldn't give a damn what you might think of me and I think its quite worrying that you are obviously so concerned what strangers on an internet forum might think of you that you would believe anyone would be worried by you telling them what your personal opinion of them is!
For example, if I judged Dublin GAA fans by what most Dublin posters write on here, I'd cross the road to avoid them after every game. Thankfully Hoganstand and the real world are a good bit different.
So to sum up, I gave an opinion that I feel is relevant to judging Dublin's success and that of their players.
If you want I can spend 20mins on google supplying links to dozens of pieces on the current situation between Dublin and funding for those of you who lived under a rock these past 4 years and have no idea what is going on.
And lastly just because there is a certain brigade of posters on here that like to act as the thought police- shouting down/belittling/insulting anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview - that isn't going to stop me expressing a valid point or opinion as troubling as some of you seem to find it.
But if your all so worried about myself and my vile propaganda why don't you organise a petition to ban me - it might make you all feel better." [/quoteThe problem for you lad is that you have a short memory and had you and your ilk had the good grace and a small bit of class instead of the pathetic attempts you boys made to undermine and discredit Tyrone"a victories over ye you might have some credibility Now yourself and your sidekick are happy to sidle up and say it was all just a misunderstanding see as you are not being dominated by them. You're on here repeatedly telling anyone who will listen about how hard done by Kerry are whenever yer beaten so cop onto yourself a small bit as you haven't a jot of credibility left and you could have spared yourself that yawn of a rant. By the way there's plenty of your own county men who have been nothing but complimentary and acknowledged what the Dubs have achieved but then again they actually played the game and have some idea of what they are talking about. Lastly , it shows just how arrogant you are by suggesting anyone would go to the bother of arranging a petition to get rid of you. More delusional nonsense."
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11732 - 06/10/2020 14:24:43
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