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Replying To arock: "Well the GAA and a tiny portion of it, seem only interested in the Inter-county game, simply because there is money in it, no other reason at all. So we either curtail the Inter-county season or divide the year up. IMO the leagues should be scrapped and that one free up a good proportion of the year schedules. It would also make the Inter-county season far more interesting with probably a bigger following. But as I say the GAA and its minority supporters want the money at the expense of everything." I dont see how removing the league would aid anyone. You would just see inter county coaches arranging friendlies all over the place to replace the games played in the league.
You also remove any chance of smaller/weaker counties ever getting to the top or challenging the top sides.
Remove the league if you turn the provincial/all ireland championships into a group format that guarantees all counties plenty of games
I think its unfair to say the GAA are only interested in the inter county game for financial reasons.
You can keep the county sides playing 10-15 competitive games a year with clubs getting 10-15 competitive games a year with strict control over when players train/play.
Penalise county coaches who stop players playing club games.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 30/08/2020 22:22:01
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The league has to go to make any system work or split season work. With regards managers organizing other things, you just make rules and if they are broken you ban the offenders. What is so hard about having rules and enforcing them? If one thing that covid has done is to hi-light the value of the club game. It is actually exciting to contemplate the possibilities. New streams of revenue, advertising, viewing players on t.v. who you would never see and they never appreciated for their skill. Derek McGrath said lately this is an epiphany for the GAA and hopefully they will grab it. Follow that up with inter county and we are in sporting heaven.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 979 - 30/08/2020 23:07:21
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Replying To KillingFields: "Do you full off season in place then? And is completely segregated seasons really needed when inter county only involves a tiny percentage of players overall" Yes we do need segregated seasons because when the club and county seasons overlap, the clubs always play second fiddle. When the seasons run side-by-side, the needs of the county team always take priority. Club sides have to prepare with very limited access to their county players and all club players are negatively affected when a complete round of fixtures is postponed at the last minute to suit the preparations of the county team - which happens all too often. There has been a lot of positive feedback from players about how the improvised club season due to Covid has worked out, despite the fact that has been so condensed. I think that if the GPA's proposal were implemented, it would be very popular and a big success.
Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 841 - 31/08/2020 02:01:07
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The league has to go to make any system work or split season work. With regards managers organizing other things, you just make rules and if they are broken you ban the offenders. What is so hard about having rules and enforcing them? If one thing that covid has done is to hi-light the value of the club game. It is actually exciting to contemplate the possibilities. New streams of revenue, advertising, viewing players on t.v. who you would never see and they never appreciated for their skill. Derek McGrath said lately this is an epiphany for the GAA and hopefully they will grab it. Follow that up with inter county and we are in sporting heaven.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 825 - 30/08/2020 23:07:21Many inter county players wont continue playing if theyre not guaranteed a decent amount of games especially if in a weaker/smaller county.
The club game is great and needed but if you reduce number of inter county games by huge percentage then how do you replace that income as the club game will not replace that income.
Yes we do need segregated seasons because when the club and county seasons overlap, the clubs always play second fiddle. When the seasons run side-by-side, the needs of the county team always take priority. Club sides have to prepare with very limited access to their county players and all club players are negatively affected when a complete round of fixtures is postponed at the last minute to suit the preparations of the county team - which happens all too often. There has been a lot of positive feedback from players about how the improvised club season due to Covid has worked out, despite the fact that has been so condensed. I think that if the GPA's proposal were implemented, it would be very popular and a big success.
Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 813 - 31/08/2020 02:01:07 You dont need completely segregated seasons as you should be able to play both at the same time. Their will be a priority at times for the county team but you set dates well in advance and dont allow intercounty coaches determine that club games and county players involvement in club games should be.
Also when do top players get off season if you completely segregate the seasons?
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 31/08/2020 10:12:21
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Two key questions for me:
1) how many games with a regular club player have in a typical season? Giving players a proper schedule of games needs to be incorporated within this proposal. I suggest a minimum of 15 meaningful games (league and championship) each year - otherwise, a club player might be better served playing junior soccer, where he will get regular games throughout the season.
2) how many games will each county player be guaranteed? Again, there needs to be a proper schedule of games to keep players from weaker counties involved.
football first (None) - Posts: 1181 - 31/08/2020 10:37:05
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KillingFields it is about priorities. Is the goal to facilitate the 1% of elite players at the demise of the 99% because that is what is going on with the existing format of clubs playing two games in April and not playing again until September. Droves of players have quit our sport for that reason. Some altogether and some to the guaranteed schedule of soccer as another poster pointed out. If you want to make money the priority then that is going to trump everything. The GAA existed when money was minimum or did not exist.
I love the inter county game but is it more important to meet their satisfactory requirements than the mass who play the games. So a few quit inter county because of not enough games. Good bye to them if we keep thousands active in the club scene. Something has to give or else if you want to make a sport that has its priorities geared towards the elites you better go down a different road altogether that has them operate separately to the club game and we all know what that is called.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 979 - 31/08/2020 17:08:48
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Replying To KillingFields: "The league has to go to make any system work or split season work. With regards managers organizing other things, you just make rules and if they are broken you ban the offenders. What is so hard about having rules and enforcing them? If one thing that covid has done is to hi-light the value of the club game. It is actually exciting to contemplate the possibilities. New streams of revenue, advertising, viewing players on t.v. who you would never see and they never appreciated for their skill. Derek McGrath said lately this is an epiphany for the GAA and hopefully they will grab it. Follow that up with inter county and we are in sporting heaven.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 825 - 30/08/2020 23:07:21Many inter county players wont continue playing if theyre not guaranteed a decent amount of games especially if in a weaker/smaller county.
The club game is great and needed but if you reduce number of inter county games by huge percentage then how do you replace that income as the club game will not replace that income.
Yes we do need segregated seasons because when the club and county seasons overlap, the clubs always play second fiddle. When the seasons run side-by-side, the needs of the county team always take priority. Club sides have to prepare with very limited access to their county players and all club players are negatively affected when a complete round of fixtures is postponed at the last minute to suit the preparations of the county team - which happens all too often. There has been a lot of positive feedback from players about how the improvised club season due to Covid has worked out, despite the fact that has been so condensed. I think that if the GPA's proposal were implemented, it would be very popular and a big success.
Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 813 - 31/08/2020 02:01:07 You dont need completely segregated seasons as you should be able to play both at the same time. Their will be a priority at times for the county team but you set dates well in advance and dont allow intercounty coaches determine that club games and county players involvement in club games should be.
Also when do top players get off season if you completely segregate the seasons?" They can't get time off with an unsegregated season either.
All the segregated season does is hide the fact that there are too many games to be played and not enough time to do so and that manifests itself each year in the fixture congestion and teams having to play county championship games the same weekend. Play a county final on a Sunday and be out playing a provincial championship game on a Wednesday, that happened my home club, I'm sure it happens others. Something else that happens is that guys can play a college match midweek and then have national league to play at the weekend.
The inter county season needs to be better organised. That's all this is.
It's too long for the top teams to facilitate time for club competitions too.
National league 8 rounds.
It's then possible to need to play 6 rounds to reach the super 8. (2 provincial ties plus 4 rounds of qualifiers)
Another 5 rounds then from Super 8s on. 19 potential rounds of matches. You then need to factor in preseason. You need to factor in break weekends.
How do clubs get access to their players during this time? How do county boards schedule the games because when the county team will play is not known at the start of the year.
When all that is taken into consideration how many games can actually be guaranteed for players in each code remembering that in Leinster 11 weeks are needed to run off Provincial and All Ireland club competitions.
The evidence is there for all to see except you that playing inter county and club championship seasons concurrently just doesn't work in practice.
As for the demands on top players.
I contend that training with a county team for 23 weeks rather than the 40+ weeks that the current system can involve will be most important for them to get some rest time.
Playing club competitions is going to be so much less intense for them than regular county training. It's part of the reason why the GPA are pushing this.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 01/09/2020 08:36:54
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If many counties finish their season in June, will we see an exodus of players to America for the summer, leaving clubs without key players? (In "normal" times, obviously, where travel becomes common again!).
football first (None) - Posts: 1181 - 01/09/2020 11:37:55
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They can't get time off with an unsegregated season either.
All the segregated season does is hide the fact that there are too many games to be played and not enough time to do so and that manifests itself each year in the fixture congestion and teams having to play county championship games the same weekend. Play a county final on a Sunday and be out playing a provincial championship game on a Wednesday, that happened my home club, I'm sure it happens others. Something else that happens is that guys can play a college match midweek and then have national league to play at the weekend.
The inter county season needs to be better organised. That's all this is.
It's too long for the top teams to facilitate time for club competitions too.
National league 8 rounds.
It's then possible to need to play 6 rounds to reach the super 8. (2 provincial ties plus 4 rounds of qualifiers)
Another 5 rounds then from Super 8s on. 19 potential rounds of matches. You then need to factor in preseason. You need to factor in break weekends.
How do clubs get access to their players during this time? How do county boards schedule the games because when the county team will play is not known at the start of the year.
When all that is taken into consideration how many games can actually be guaranteed for players in each code remembering that in Leinster 11 weeks are needed to run off Provincial and All Ireland club competitions.
The evidence is there for all to see except you that playing inter county and club championship seasons concurrently just doesn't work in practice.
As for the demands on top players.
I contend that training with a county team for 23 weeks rather than the 40+ weeks that the current system can involve will be most important for them to get some rest time.
Playing club competitions is going to be so much less intense for them than regular county training. It's part of the reason why the GPA are pushing this.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3030 - 01/09/2020 08:36:54They can completely get time off with an unsegregated season.
Completely segregating the seasons puts the interests of the tiny percent who play inter county ahead of the 99% who play club only.
You have to structure the season better and that cant be having two separate seasons. There has to be some level of players not playing on every team they are eligible to play on.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 01/09/2020 13:37:46
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Replying To KillingFields: "They can't get time off with an unsegregated season either.
All the segregated season does is hide the fact that there are too many games to be played and not enough time to do so and that manifests itself each year in the fixture congestion and teams having to play county championship games the same weekend. Play a county final on a Sunday and be out playing a provincial championship game on a Wednesday, that happened my home club, I'm sure it happens others. Something else that happens is that guys can play a college match midweek and then have national league to play at the weekend.
The inter county season needs to be better organised. That's all this is.
It's too long for the top teams to facilitate time for club competitions too.
National league 8 rounds.
It's then possible to need to play 6 rounds to reach the super 8. (2 provincial ties plus 4 rounds of qualifiers)
Another 5 rounds then from Super 8s on. 19 potential rounds of matches. You then need to factor in preseason. You need to factor in break weekends.
How do clubs get access to their players during this time? How do county boards schedule the games because when the county team will play is not known at the start of the year.
When all that is taken into consideration how many games can actually be guaranteed for players in each code remembering that in Leinster 11 weeks are needed to run off Provincial and All Ireland club competitions.
The evidence is there for all to see except you that playing inter county and club championship seasons concurrently just doesn't work in practice.
As for the demands on top players.
I contend that training with a county team for 23 weeks rather than the 40+ weeks that the current system can involve will be most important for them to get some rest time.
Playing club competitions is going to be so much less intense for them than regular county training. It's part of the reason why the GPA are pushing this.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3030 - 01/09/2020 08:36:54They can completely get time off with an unsegregated season.
Completely segregating the seasons puts the interests of the tiny percent who play inter county ahead of the 99% who play club only.
You have to structure the season better and that cant be having two separate seasons. There has to be some level of players not playing on every team they are eligible to play on." When I hear segregated season, I am assuming that secondary club competitions are taking place during the county championships with county players.
In that case I just don't see how the segregated season isn't a winner.
Yes there's an all round calendar but it's pretty much an 8 month March to October main season just with some bonus competitions at the end of the year that very few would expect to play in regularly.
College competitions in January would only affect any individual for 3 or 4 years of their career max.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 01/09/2020 17:42:47
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Replying To football first: "If many counties finish their season in June, will we see an exodus of players to America for the summer, leaving clubs without key players? (In "normal" times, obviously, where travel becomes common again!)." I've made the point the motivation of the GPA proposals is to have a completly seperate inter county season for their own elite benefits. The GAA starts and ends with the club however whilst many don't want to admit it we have an elite element to our games - inter county. The GPA proposals will:
1) Allow a dedicated no interruption inter county season with set fixtures and in time significant competition reform which fully benefits the commercial potential of our games. This will lead to significant revenue increases and the platform to push for semi professionalism.
In the meantime
2) Whilst this won't be for everyone your point is spot on. Inter county players stay at home for the dedicated inter county season and then a large percentage of players head to the states/London to make significant money playing football in the summer months of July/August.
This argument about helping club players sounds thoughtful however it is 2020; the world has changed and when particularly students (big percentage of inter county players) are presented with cheques, accommodation, travelling, sunshine and football for 8 weeks you'll find the club will be second choice.
After all the complaining about inter county affecting the club in the end inter county members of those clubs in significant numbers will choose a summer lifestyle over their club.
Having an incoming New York president may well get these proposals through as he will clearly see the benefits to Amercian GAA competitions.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 707 - 04/09/2020 10:25:42
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Replying To sam1884: "I've made the point the motivation of the GPA proposals is to have a completly seperate inter county season for their own elite benefits. The GAA starts and ends with the club however whilst many don't want to admit it we have an elite element to our games - inter county. The GPA proposals will:
1) Allow a dedicated no interruption inter county season with set fixtures and in time significant competition reform which fully benefits the commercial potential of our games. This will lead to significant revenue increases and the platform to push for semi professionalism.
In the meantime
2) Whilst this won't be for everyone your point is spot on. Inter county players stay at home for the dedicated inter county season and then a large percentage of players head to the states/London to make significant money playing football in the summer months of July/August.
This argument about helping club players sounds thoughtful however it is 2020; the world has changed and when particularly students (big percentage of inter county players) are presented with cheques, accommodation, travelling, sunshine and football for 8 weeks you'll find the club will be second choice.
After all the complaining about inter county affecting the club in the end inter county members of those clubs in significant numbers will choose a summer lifestyle over their club.
Having an incoming New York president may well get these proposals through as he will clearly see the benefits to Amercian GAA competitions." Guys are going to the US from weaker counties regardless of whether their county team is still in or not. Been a problem for Antrim for years.
I don't know what you can do about that, nor do I think there's a lot should be done about it. If young people want to leave for a while there's plenty of people at home to continue on without those.
Again I don't think what a small enough cohort do should weigh hugely on what would be a positive change for the bulk of our players.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 04/09/2020 12:01:54
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Having looked at all the arguments, I'd flip the GPA proposals around: begin the season with club games, and start the inter-county season from August onwards. The GAA would need to impose a strict ban on inter-county training until the club championship is finished. Club championship form would help county managers to select the county squad. Club leagues could continue into the summer and early autumn.
football first (None) - Posts: 1181 - 04/09/2020 12:27:42
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Replying To Whammo86: "Guys are going to the US from weaker counties regardless of whether their county team is still in or not. Been a problem for Antrim for years.
I don't know what you can do about that, nor do I think there's a lot should be done about it. If young people want to leave for a while there's plenty of people at home to continue on without those.
Again I don't think what a small enough cohort do should weigh hugely on what would be a positive change for the bulk of our players." Correct it's more of a problem for the weaker counties and I totally agree there shouldn't be anything done to stop it despite what some may think.
The reason it's more of a problem for weaker counties is the committment required at inter county level for very little realistic rewards. The mid to strong counties in the main play inter county football well into the summer and have something to aim towards.
Now if the GPA proposal's get through apart from the two All Ireland finalists every county in the country will be finished by the middle/end of June. That leaves a lot of very well conditioned quality football players for the Amercian and London clubs to choose from for July - September. Will the love of the club stop most of these players from accepting these tempting offers?
I love the club game as much as the county game but some in the club scene are not realistic if they believe their inter county members will all just stay at home at the best time of the year when these tempting offers are put to them.
The push to curtail the inter county season to benefit the clubs will only increase the quality of championships outside Ireland. We'll have no inter county football during the majority of July/August and a club programme with a significant number of their inter county players travelling leaving an all round weaker GAA summer in Ireland.
My guess is the GPA proposals are about the protected county season but also providing an opportunity for it's younger members to become semi professional (outside Ireland) during the summer months.
We need to find a way to help the clubs but people are falling into the GPA/GAA trap of splitting the season; the motivation isn't what it seems imo.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 707 - 04/09/2020 12:32:17
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Replying To sam1884: "Correct it's more of a problem for the weaker counties and I totally agree there shouldn't be anything done to stop it despite what some may think.
The reason it's more of a problem for weaker counties is the committment required at inter county level for very little realistic rewards. The mid to strong counties in the main play inter county football well into the summer and have something to aim towards.
Now if the GPA proposal's get through apart from the two All Ireland finalists every county in the country will be finished by the middle/end of June. That leaves a lot of very well conditioned quality football players for the Amercian and London clubs to choose from for July - September. Will the love of the club stop most of these players from accepting these tempting offers?
I love the club game as much as the county game but some in the club scene are not realistic if they believe their inter county members will all just stay at home at the best time of the year when these tempting offers are put to them.
The push to curtail the inter county season to benefit the clubs will only increase the quality of championships outside Ireland. We'll have no inter county football during the majority of July/August and a club programme with a significant number of their inter county players travelling leaving an all round weaker GAA summer in Ireland.
My guess is the GPA proposals are about the protected county season but also providing an opportunity for it's younger members to become semi professional (outside Ireland) during the summer months.
We need to find a way to help the clubs but people are falling into the GPA/GAA trap of splitting the season; the motivation isn't what it seems imo." Absolute nonsense....talk about conspiracy theory....if lads are heading to the States or whatever during the summer rather than playing with their clubs somehow that is the GPA faults??? Talk about reds under the bed....there has been some crazy posts from time to time on this board but that is up there with them
ArmaghCat (Armagh) - Posts: 61 - 04/09/2020 13:46:25
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Replying To sam1884: "I've made the point the motivation of the GPA proposals is to have a completly seperate inter county season for their own elite benefits. The GAA starts and ends with the club however whilst many don't want to admit it we have an elite element to our games - inter county. The GPA proposals will:
1) Allow a dedicated no interruption inter county season with set fixtures and in time significant competition reform which fully benefits the commercial potential of our games. This will lead to significant revenue increases and the platform to push for semi professionalism.
In the meantime
2) Whilst this won't be for everyone your point is spot on. Inter county players stay at home for the dedicated inter county season and then a large percentage of players head to the states/London to make significant money playing football in the summer months of July/August.
This argument about helping club players sounds thoughtful however it is 2020; the world has changed and when particularly students (big percentage of inter county players) are presented with cheques, accommodation, travelling, sunshine and football for 8 weeks you'll find the club will be second choice.
After all the complaining about inter county affecting the club in the end inter county members of those clubs in significant numbers will choose a summer lifestyle over their club.
Having an incoming New York president may well get these proposals through as he will clearly see the benefits to Amercian GAA competitions." just going to point out its rare for county players to come over to London after being knocked out of the championship and its also rare for London clubs to offer cash incentives. Last year I believe may have been an exception, and looking at the transfers this year that club look like they may be struggling badly.
Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 1990 - 04/09/2020 14:19:52
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Replying To football first: "Having looked at all the arguments, I'd flip the GPA proposals around: begin the season with club games, and start the inter-county season from August onwards. The GAA would need to impose a strict ban on inter-county training until the club championship is finished. Club championship form would help county managers to select the county squad. Club leagues could continue into the summer and early autumn." Not a bad idea.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 04/09/2020 14:24:08
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Replying To ArmaghCat: "Absolute nonsense....talk about conspiracy theory....if lads are heading to the States or whatever during the summer rather than playing with their clubs somehow that is the GPA faults??? Talk about reds under the bed....there has been some crazy posts from time to time on this board but that is up there with them" It may sound nonsense at the minute but watch the GAA landscape significantly change over the next decade if these exact proposals get through and then review if it was nonsense. Splitting the season isn't completly a bad idea; there is huge benefits to doing it. It will provide club players with set dates but you'd be naive to think the GPA haven't thought about the significant benefits of having a standalone 6 to 7 month inter county season. The GPA is an impressive body and are much more progressive than any other GAA body; before these proposals there'd have been a lot of research and analysis.
We can't deny these proposals will result in a large number of players playing their summer football outside Ireland; we wouldn't blame them.
Therefore does a more commercialised inter county competition from January to June (except for July final) and an exodus of inter county players before the start of the club window improve the current situation!?
The GPA's proposal's are a good start but I'not sure the exact proposals would help the inter county game, club game or the GAA as a whole and for me there is room to make slight changes.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 707 - 04/09/2020 14:48:19
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There is a look at how the format will be in today's independent . No league finals, team that finishes top wins the League. No Provincial championship, first round would be cross divisional.
Top 4 in Division 1 v bottom 4 in division 2.
Bottom 4 Division 1 v bottom 4 div 2.
Same for div 3 and 4.
Round 2 the losers enter the Tailtean Cup
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2216 - 05/09/2020 10:01:49
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Replying To FoolsGold: "There is a look at how the format will be in today's independent . No league finals, team that finishes top wins the League. No Provincial championship, first round would be cross divisional.
Top 4 in Division 1 v bottom 4 in division 2.
Bottom 4 Division 1 v bottom 4 div 2.
Same for div 3 and 4.
Round 2 the losers enter the Tailtean Cup" Would the last 16 be seeded as well I wonder!? If so it has the potential of getting all or the majority of Div 1 teams to the super 8 series without having to play another div 1 team. So a system that increases the chance of finishing the season with the biggest counties in a super series. On paper it looks good but I do believe there is still elite thinking to the proposals.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 707 - 05/09/2020 11:52:46
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