|
Replying To Pikeman96: "I know there's been other posts on this in the meantime, but I'm going back to the original one here to reply.
I think this is a crazy suggestion and shows a complete lack of empathy and understanding for what the GAA is all about as a community-based organisation.
To suggest that somebody who goes to college or gets a job a couple of hours away from home should immediately be expected to turn his back on his own club and sign up to play with a crowd of strangers instead goes completely against the grain of what the club is supposed to be all about.
And to wade into a discussion that's trying to come up with suggestions about what can be done to improve the lot of the club player, with a proposal that would do nothing but severely hamper rural clubs everywhere, is nothing short of bizarre.
I'm saying no more on this one. I've made my point." crazy is the word
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3841 - 16/08/2020 09:19:53
2287723
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ArmaghCat: "More money being spent on club managers across the country......paid club managers are as big if not a bigger problem than county managers....over 25 million a year been taken out of the GAA by club managers...." Where are the Revenue Commisioners on this, are they deliberately turning a blind eye to it or being influenced to do so ?
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1049 - 16/08/2020 11:35:43
2287734
Link
0
|
|
Replying To moc.dna: "Where are the Revenue Commisioners on this, are they deliberately turning a blind eye to it or being influenced to do so ?" I have often thought the same myself. How many, if any, clubs or counties have been investigated by the Revenue Commisioners?
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1115 - 16/08/2020 12:11:02
2287743
Link
0
|
|
Replying To moc.dna: "Where are the Revenue Commisioners on this, are they deliberately turning a blind eye to it or being influenced to do so ?" A colleague in our tax department told me that a certain man in the top few people in revenue is "related" to a very prominent hurling manager who I won't name....nothing to see here.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 864 - 16/08/2020 12:14:42
2287745
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "I know there's been other posts on this in the meantime, but I'm going back to the original one here to reply.
I think this is a crazy suggestion and shows a complete lack of empathy and understanding for what the GAA is all about as a community-based organisation.
To suggest that somebody who goes to college or gets a job a couple of hours away from home should immediately be expected to turn his back on his own club and sign up to play with a crowd of strangers instead goes completely against the grain of what the club is supposed to be all about.
And to wade into a discussion that's trying to come up with suggestions about what can be done to improve the lot of the club player, with a proposal that would do nothing but severely hamper rural clubs everywhere, is nothing short of bizarre.
I'm saying no more on this one. I've made my point." You know what I do regret that post. It was abrupt and didn't represent the point I wasn't wanting to make.
Obviously we don't want to have people turn their back on their home club unnecessarily.
I just think the focus on accommodating everyone or exclusively playing championship at weekends needs to be reconsidered to allow for a better season and fixture calendar.
You take the example of the Wexford championship.
Would it be beyond the pale to schedule 2 group stage fixtures a season for mid week. Have them set in stone at the start of the year and allow people to plan around them accordingly.
If you're working in Dublin maybe you have to make a decision around your time off, take a half day in the afternoon one day to travel down.
If someone can't do that, is it the end of the world if they miss 2 championship group games when you've 4 from 6 qualifying for knockout rounds.
Honestly, the maths don't quite work to allow Wexford 16 weekends a year to run off their championship without impacting others in some regard.
I know they do provide that currently but that is at the expense of having a well defined schedule of matches.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 16/08/2020 12:32:35
2287748
Link
9
|
|
I spent last winter playing soccer in Dublin. It was good craic and I made a few good friends out of it.
But at the same time, it didn't feel like "my club" in the same way the GAA club in Wexford does.
I am in the fed-up club player category, who wasn't playing this year until Covid hit. All I want (and in the year of our lord, 2020 it can't be that unreasonable to expect) is a fixtures schedule where I can plan my life/holidays/travels.
In Wexford, there is no reason whatsoever that training needs to start in January for 4 max games in April, then meaningless games for the summer months.
What I'd rather do is start training around Paddy's Day, have league matches in May/June and then full tilt ahead for July until the conclusion in October say. That way, from October to Christmas is a proper break for everybody. But once I know "we have matches here here and here, and here's the schedule" I can live with that. I am not bothered if the best they can say is "yeah if Wexford are beaten in the AI quarter final, we'll be out the week after". That is a joke and no use to anyone.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 864 - 16/08/2020 14:53:36
2287762
Link
2
|
|
Replying To StoreysTash: "I spent last winter playing soccer in Dublin. It was good craic and I made a few good friends out of it.
But at the same time, it didn't feel like "my club" in the same way the GAA club in Wexford does.
I am in the fed-up club player category, who wasn't playing this year until Covid hit. All I want (and in the year of our lord, 2020 it can't be that unreasonable to expect) is a fixtures schedule where I can plan my life/holidays/travels.
In Wexford, there is no reason whatsoever that training needs to start in January for 4 max games in April, then meaningless games for the summer months.
What I'd rather do is start training around Paddy's Day, have league matches in May/June and then full tilt ahead for July until the conclusion in October say. That way, from October to Christmas is a proper break for everybody. But once I know "we have matches here here and here, and here's the schedule" I can live with that. I am not bothered if the best they can say is "yeah if Wexford are beaten in the AI quarter final, we'll be out the week after". That is a joke and no use to anyone." "All I want (and in the year of our lord, 2020 it can't be that unreasonable to expect) is a fixtures schedule where I can plan my life/holidays/travels."
Good post and I agree with you. But I have to take slight issue with the above statement.
I like many people, don't play organised sports (too old to in my case) like you. But our lives are also effected, and we can't plan holidays and travel, unless we want to take a chance on the vagaries of lockdowns and quarantines.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1115 - 16/08/2020 15:55:25
2287772
Link
0
|
|
I think the GAA season is arseways.
Open the season with Provincial championships.
Move straight into a proper league based championship then after and just play the season off in a sharper time period.
The 23 week season for intercounty probably is also a touch long.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 831 - 14/08/2020 11:51:23Why open the season with the provincial championships? Why not just start with the league and play the provincial championships in weeks off in between the league based competition? Play friendlies to start season.
This could turn out to be a long one, so please bear with me.
I always think that the problem with calls for defined club/county seasons, or a national fixtures plan, is that every county is different in terms of its needs, because of how they have different structures and different priorities as regards hurling and football.
For example, some counties (like ourselves in Wexford) give equal time to their hurling and football club championships. But others don't - e.g. how Kilkenny plays off its football in just a few weekends early in the year, or how several other counties who have only a handful of hurling clubs only need a few weekends for that, and give much more time to football.
Then there's the championship structures themselves, within counties. As StoreysTash mentioned above, in an ordinary year (not this year!) we've a system in Wexford that takes a minimum 16 weeks to play. There are 12 teams per grade in both hurling and football, and two groups of six in each grade. So that makes five group matches, followed by quarter-finals, semi-finals, and final, for a total of eight rounds of matches in both codes. Having a defined club season starting even on the first weekend of July would still mean it would be at least middle of October before county finals would be played, and that's not even allowing for a spare weekend anywhere along the line for a replay or if games are weather-affected.
You might say "change your structure to something shorter", but this system was introduced in 2012, and clubs have voted to retain it every single year since then, despite there being a number of other options proposed along the way too. So it's obviously popular. So do you have to consider then whether clubs and players would be willing to accept the trade-off of a shorter structure and therefore less games, in return for getting a defined season?
Now let's consider a defined club season of say July to October from another point of view. Would this mean club players get no games at all during February/March/April/May/June? Or do they run secondary competitions where clubs have to accept that they won't have their county players?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 340 - 14/08/2020 12:18:05 Of course every county will be different but if all county boards, players, coaches all know the time frames for which they can play games then the best proposals can be made for each county.
You have all of that correct and then there is another factor not mentioned. Some counties have no problem playing games midweek, but if you are a small club in Mayo or Kerry you will almost definitely be relying on lads working or studying in Dublin who come home every weekend. No problem for counties neighbouring Dublin to have midweek games but almost impossible in other places, you can't expect someone to travel from Dublin to Castlebar to play a big game on Wednesday evening and still get to his job in Dublin the following morning.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2412 - 14/08/2020 16:26:34Well what do you propose then? People wouldnt have to come home every week to play?
Time to scrap County Managers, they are destroying the game and costing County boards a fortune, time to run Club Games from 1st February to end of June , with all players playing and training with their Clubs only. Then let County panels get together on 1st July and train for that month and start County Games on 1st august and have them finished by end of November, with December and January a closed season.
watching some Club games both live and on TV in the last few weeks, there is far better football played by all players but especially by County players who are let express themselves and play the game with some flair. instead of been controlled by County Managers to play to a system and produce football that's a bore to watch especially for neutral supporters.
jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 9 - 14/08/2020 20:08:20How do you select and who coaches county teams. Standards of inter county football would drop hugely with your proposal. TV and revenues would decrease.
It's always been a peeve of mine that the summer and early autumn months which are most suited for hurling and football with the good weather and long days have for decades being a wasted time and a lost opportunity. Counties like Galway regularly compete in the latter stages of inter county senior and underage competitions thus leaving a sometimes 3 month gap in the club senior c'ships leaving players and clubs disillusioned.
The inter country competitions which have in recent years been expanded have more or less made it impossible to play club championships during the summer months, I think that this needs a serious revisiting and a few modifications to the formats could achieve good results.
The objective is a balance between club and county. Also some type of consideration should be give to students doing exams etc. there is a definite need for a closed season.
Less collective training for inter county teams should lead to less costs as the expense of running these teams is spiraling out of control and is going to put many county boards in bad financial positions.
* Discontinue the FBD, McKenna cup etc, go straight into National league in the middle of February.
* Split Divisions 1, 2 & 3 of league into 2 groups of 4 or 5, bottom teams relegated to lower division, either have semi finals or top teams go to final, this would take at most 6 rounds completed by early April.
* Mid April through late July solely for club c'ships, no collective county training, county teams may convene for a few weeks around exam time in early June when club c'ships are suspended until students have finished exams. All county c'ships completed by end of July.
* Inter county c'ships start in mid August and finish in mid October, play the 7 or so rounds necessary to complete competition over 9 weekends.
Galway4ever (Galway) - Posts: 101 - 15/08/2020 05:00:12 Clubs should just go play games more in summer. Just get inter county players to play. Inter county training doesnt necessarily need to be cut too much but inter county players shouldnt be expected to train every session with every team they are involved in.
Yes the pre season competitions should be stopped but teams will still be playing games to prep for the league.
I wouldnt split the league as there isnt a need to reduce the number of league games. Inter county shouldnt be straight knockout. Players dont want that.
That's just a crazy suggestion and would see a huge number of clubs fold as they would be unable to field teams. Any lad who goes to college in Dublin for 4 years from Mayo or Kerry won't join a club in Dublin as he is unlikely to be there in June, July or August, and won't play with his home club as he won't be there April, May or September if a team even exists. They will be lost to the game entirely if they take 4 years out. For lads working away, they understandably like to go home to their family at weekends so not much point them joining a club in Dublin either. And a club like Aran Islands wouldn't be able to exist as nobody would be able to get to a game there midweek. Would you say every intercounty player living in Dublin and training there midweek because the drive back to Mayo or Galway is too far should have to throw their lot in with Dublin at intercounty as well?
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2412 - 15/08/2020 08:40:08 Well something has to change and this would be better than existing situation?
They wouldnt have to take 4 years out.
Where are the Revenue Commisioners on this, are they deliberately turning a blind eye to it or being influenced to do so ?
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1008 - 16/08/2020 11:35:43Cash in hand etc hard for revenue to find evidence
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 16/08/2020 17:59:23
2287778
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Cockney_Cat: ""All I want (and in the year of our lord, 2020 it can't be that unreasonable to expect) is a fixtures schedule where I can plan my life/holidays/travels."
Good post and I agree with you. But I have to take slight issue with the above statement.
I like many people, don't play organised sports (too old to in my case) like you. But our lives are also effected, and we can't plan holidays and travel, unless we want to take a chance on the vagaries of lockdowns and quarantines." i cant speak for him but i would say he wasn't referring to this year,i think it was a general point?
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3841 - 16/08/2020 19:31:23
2287783
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Cockney_Cat: ""All I want (and in the year of our lord, 2020 it can't be that unreasonable to expect) is a fixtures schedule where I can plan my life/holidays/travels."
Good post and I agree with you. But I have to take slight issue with the above statement.
I like many people, don't play organised sports (too old to in my case) like you. But our lives are also effected, and we can't plan holidays and travel, unless we want to take a chance on the vagaries of lockdowns and quarantines." I have no travel plans for this year either, it was referring to a typical year, not this year.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 864 - 17/08/2020 12:46:28
2287879
Link
0
|
|
IMO a shorter Inter-county season is the way it should be. There is no need for a league, it is the growth of the league and the lenghtening of the Championships that has throttled the season. The whole GAA enterprise just prior to Covid was losing its appeal anyway, too many games , diminishing interest it was doing nothing for GAA sport. As so many players here have appealed , surely it is not too much to ask for a reasonable fixture schedule? And as for payments to club managers, that can be easily sorted. Clubs have charity status as far as Revenue is concerned, payments to managers is not covered. If teams do a massive fund raising to get a manager and pay him themselves in cash then that is between Club manager and revenue. All he needs to do is make sure he doesn't drop the wrong person.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4434 - 17/08/2020 16:24:16
2287924
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "You know what I do regret that post. It was abrupt and didn't represent the point I wasn't wanting to make.
Obviously we don't want to have people turn their back on their home club unnecessarily.
I just think the focus on accommodating everyone or exclusively playing championship at weekends needs to be reconsidered to allow for a better season and fixture calendar.
You take the example of the Wexford championship.
Would it be beyond the pale to schedule 2 group stage fixtures a season for mid week. Have them set in stone at the start of the year and allow people to plan around them accordingly.
If you're working in Dublin maybe you have to make a decision around your time off, take a half day in the afternoon one day to travel down.
If someone can't do that, is it the end of the world if they miss 2 championship group games when you've 4 from 6 qualifying for knockout rounds.
Honestly, the maths don't quite work to allow Wexford 16 weekends a year to run off their championship without impacting others in some regard.
I know they do provide that currently but that is at the expense of having a well defined schedule of matches." There is maybe a way to allow for 16 weekends of club action.
January weeks 1-4 no county action, university competitions
Weeks 5-8 All Ireland club semifinals and finals in both codes. Football, hurling, football, hurling
Intercounty preseason alongside this.
Weeks 9-28 (March to Mid July) Intercounty competition over 20 weeks
Hurling is week 10 to week 27 over 18 weeks.
Week 29-44 16 club championship weekends up to the end of October
Week 45+ up to 7 weeks to play provincial club competitions
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 27/08/2020 09:39:44
2289320
Link
3
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "There is maybe a way to allow for 16 weekends of club action.
January weeks 1-4 no county action, university competitions
Weeks 5-8 All Ireland club semifinals and finals in both codes. Football, hurling, football, hurling
Intercounty preseason alongside this.
Weeks 9-28 (March to Mid July) Intercounty competition over 20 weeks
Hurling is week 10 to week 27 over 18 weeks.
Week 29-44 16 club championship weekends up to the end of October
Week 45+ up to 7 weeks to play provincial club competitions" when do some players especially those still in 3rd level and strong clubs who compete in provincial and all ireland get time off then?
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 27/08/2020 12:50:56
2289350
Link
0
|
|
Replying To KillingFields: "when do some players especially those still in 3rd level and strong clubs who compete in provincial and all ireland get time off then?" I think if they want time off they need to manage their workload and not play for every team.
The problem exists now, except college players have multiple teams to play with at the same time.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 27/08/2020 14:25:44
2289365
Link
2
|
|
I haven't read all the thread so I apologise if it's been brought up already. Firstly the GPA proposals on the face of it are a welcome addition and allows all players either club or county to know when they're playing.
However the GPA are playing a very good game of politics on this one. Will the inter county season end at the beginning of July or be pushed back to the August bank holiday weekend?
The real motivation however of the GPA is and always has been elite, that is their bread and butter and number 1 priority. I believe their ultimate aim is to have some form of semi professional competition. The current structures do not allow a consistent pre planned competiton they can sell to sponsors and media. The current structures are stop start which makes it impossible for them.
It's my strong view they need to identify a 6 to 7 month inter county only season. If passed these proposals would allow that. Then when this window is protected just for inter county stage 2 of the plan comes through. A form of super league or changed championship format over a period of 6 to 7 months; you can imagine the money men in Croke Park liking the idea of that. The product can then be sold off; consistent money guaranteed yearly with season tickets etc and then the final stage of the plan will be the push towards semi professionalism.
GPA proposals are about themselves; I have no doubt the plight of the club player was given anymore than a glance; yes on the face of it they're good plans but being sold as a short inter county season is a marketing ploy; it's the protected window they're after.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 707 - 27/08/2020 18:11:15
2289406
Link
0
|
|
What would be the future of the International Rules.? . It was on its last legs, and now the pandemic might have killed it off.
The series was usually played in October. If County football was wrapped up by July, would it have a place
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2216 - 27/08/2020 21:49:07
2289429
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "I think if they want time off they need to manage their workload and not play for every team.
The problem exists now, except college players have multiple teams to play with at the same time." So why not propose something to do that as your proposal will just see the players continuing to play for all teams and not get any time off to recoup and recover
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 27/08/2020 22:02:13
2289431
Link
0
|
|
Replying To sam1884: "I haven't read all the thread so I apologise if it's been brought up already. Firstly the GPA proposals on the face of it are a welcome addition and allows all players either club or county to know when they're playing.
However the GPA are playing a very good game of politics on this one. Will the inter county season end at the beginning of July or be pushed back to the August bank holiday weekend?
The real motivation however of the GPA is and always has been elite, that is their bread and butter and number 1 priority. I believe their ultimate aim is to have some form of semi professional competition. The current structures do not allow a consistent pre planned competiton they can sell to sponsors and media. The current structures are stop start which makes it impossible for them.
It's my strong view they need to identify a 6 to 7 month inter county only season. If passed these proposals would allow that. Then when this window is protected just for inter county stage 2 of the plan comes through. A form of super league or changed championship format over a period of 6 to 7 months; you can imagine the money men in Croke Park liking the idea of that. The product can then be sold off; consistent money guaranteed yearly with season tickets etc and then the final stage of the plan will be the push towards semi professionalism.
GPA proposals are about themselves; I have no doubt the plight of the club player was given anymore than a glance; yes on the face of it they're good plans but being sold as a short inter county season is a marketing ploy; it's the protected window they're after." So no GPA members play for their clubs....never read so much bitter rubbish....GPA on record that they are after sustainable amateurism but don't let that get in the way of your rant
Some of the anti inter county stuff is laughable led by O Rourke and Flynn both who did very well out of their own inter county careers and who both make a good living writing about the same game and players they constantly slate
GPA proposal is genuine and most importantly provides space for both games (club and county) to co exist as well as providing space for the squeezed inter varsity
ArmaghCat (Armagh) - Posts: 61 - 27/08/2020 22:36:05
2289436
Link
0
|
|
Replying To KillingFields: "So why not propose something to do that as your proposal will just see the players continuing to play for all teams and not get any time off to recoup and recover" To be fair many players don't mind the games its the training that is the real issue....if inter varsity players were left to their colleges in Jan and early Feb that would be massive progress, not ideal but lot better than current scenario
To be fair the colleges themselves are supportive of this proposal
ArmaghCat (Armagh) - Posts: 61 - 27/08/2020 22:38:00
2289437
Link
0
|
|
I'll admit not reading all the posts in this subject. However I believe for some warts the GAA is the best sporting organization in the world. It is a tough challenge to maintain an amateur sport with a professional standard that has been achieved. This is because of staying close to grass roots principles. The upper leadership have to be kept in check to maintain this. A balance between professionalIsm and the attraction for players to want to play at the highest level needs to be developed. I would be worried that leadership is focused on maintaining their elite status in the organization on the backs of the work horses, players, dedicated club people, parents etc.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 979 - 27/08/2020 23:18:39
2289441
Link
0
|