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Was just reading about Mayos extended deal with Elverys and Smyths etc. Fair play.
This isn't having a go at Mayo, but always strikes me that when County Boards enter to sponsorship and other commercial deals the figures never seem to be published. The only one I see in the Public domain is our AIG one. I know we have many more, not public and likely lead the way in the whole area. Not about that though.
Anyway got me thinking, there are two sources or revenue, one centrally from the GAA, this is published annually. It generally leads to conclusions around equality etc. But then not much is known about the second source of county turnover, sponsorship, fundraising and commercial revenue and the sporting impact that can have comparatively. Which in some cases is huge, from the occasional cumulative articles we see. I know we are marginally on top.
Are we in the day an age that County boards should give a break down, of commercial, sponsorship and fundraising deals collectively and should those figures being in the public domain? Seems like an awful lot of income, that seems to just go of the radar when talking about equity of finance, who gets what and potential to have a sporting impact etc. Even in term of accountability and transparency, it's seems to be what most organisations see being the contemporary, best practice and ethical thing to do.
Should they made be in the public domain, transparent and added to the GAA central funding to get a proper analysis of every counties financial situation and what that creates in terms of equality?
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 28/07/2020 22:52:10
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Figures are published once a year by the County Boards in the audited accounts.
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1583 - 29/07/2020 10:52:51
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Replying To witnof: "Figures are published once a year by the County Boards in the audited accounts." Ive often looked for the audited them for individual counties, they arent really in the public domain like the GAA figures. nor are they subdivided for the value of particular deals often just lumped together. You often get a general statement from the county chairman or the like, but its broad strokes stuff.
For example what the actual break down and comparative with of say Mayo, Dublin, Kerrys, Galway, Kilkennys etc etc main sponsorship and shirt sponsor deals. Breath of individual sponsorship and commercial income. How much is each county raising annually from fundraising and whats the source.
Its becoming a multi million euro industry, but an awful lot of the break down isnt transparent or available to the public.
You hear much how central funds are divided, but very little about this income - which is significant raised by individual county boards.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 29/07/2020 11:29:29
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Each CB publishes a treasurers report annually, it is given directly to clubs, presented at the AGM and made available to media etc. Kerry GAA has a total of € 786k in commercial revenue in 2019, which was a distant second to Dublin at over € 2m so they are a lot more than marginally ahead.
As most county boards are not incorporated they are not legally required to publish this information, but it is not really that hard to find the figures. I'm sure the annual report is on most county board websites.
There really isn't any reason to look for anything more. I honestly doubt the general public is that interested beyond the headline figures.
Colm Keyes has a topline a summary of some of the most prominent counties in an article below.
link
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1957 - 29/07/2020 12:09:01
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This is what i mean though, taking the Kerry example you can have general figure of 786k for Kerry as Commerical revenue. but what is that " a €120,000 increase up from 661k in2018 is accounted for by increased revenues from competition sponsors, including Garvey's SuperValu (County SFC & SHC), Kerry Petroleum (Club Championships), Acorn Life (U-21 championships), Keane's SuperValu (Minor Championships) and all other associate sponsors totalling €400,000"
So Kerry commerical revenue is defined be sponsorship, im not sure if that includes the Kerry group sponsorship
Then there are other sub headings:
Fundraising an additional : 553k
Domestic gate receipts: 513k
All before central council funding. Thats over 2 mill, before you look at central council allocations.
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/sport/gaa/success-costs-money-and-a-final-appearance-helps-fill-the-coffers-38751582.html
Not about any particular county, but you can see how that information is off the radar and while it might be reported in a general sense or bits and pieces, its different from county to county in and if it shard. Its the area of the biggest income for counties yet, is often less discussed or talked about in frequency then say something like games development is.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 29/07/2020 13:24:10
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Each CB publishes a treasurers report annually, it is given directly to clubs, presented at the AGM and made available to media etc. Kerry GAA has a total of € 786k in commercial revenue in 2019, which was a distant second to Dublin at over € 2m so they are a lot more than marginally ahead. As most county boards are not incorporated they are not legally required to publish this information, but it is not really that hard to find the figures. I'm sure the annual report is on most county board websites. There really isn't any reason to look for anything more. I honestly doubt the general public is that interested beyond the headline figures. Colm Keyes has a topline a summary of some of the most prominent counties in an article below. link"
I wonder would advancedmark from Mayo have the Mayo figures.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11732 - 29/07/2020 13:41:20
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Of the two articles posted the Dublin one by Colm Keys and my one by the Kerryman.
They state:
1).
"Dublin's overall income for 2019 was €5.24m, up from €4.4m a year earlier thanks chiefly to that €802k rise in commercial revenue".
2).
"Income of KCC for 2019 is €6.14 million, up from €3.5m in 2018."
Weird, but lets not turn this into the Dublin Kerry yoke.
Its intended to be a discussion on all other counties and income as well.
Mayo were a couple of years ago, just behind Dublin in cumulative commercial income, not sure where they are now. Also how other counties fair? What impact do people think this have on Sporting outcome.
Does commercial income say inhibit Meath from competing with Dublin, Clare with Kerry or sligo with Mayo? Many examples, if so can that gap ever be recovered? is success in the game now commercially and similar revenue driven.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 29/07/2020 14:03:44
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Some CB's might categorise certain income slightly differently but I don't necessarily think it is a big issue.
I know in Kerry's case the Kerry Group sponsorship is performance based so it fluctuates from year to year based on how far they get in the championship etc., so it would probably be difficult to announce a set multi year deal. Commercial income and fundraising are split in their report which I think is the way it should be.
I don't think any particular county is trying to hide anything, more that they provide the required information to those that need it and there isn't any reason to do any more. If the GAA published an annual county by county, line by line comparison of income & expenditure I wonder how many people would actually care enough to read it. I'd probably glance at it out of curiosity myself. It would be useful for journalists too, but they should have the info already if they are any good.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1957 - 29/07/2020 14:17:21
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You've also got to take into consideration when talking about dublins finance against the country teams that dublin only have 1 away game in the championship whereas all others will have up to 5 or 6 depending on if they get to the finals and draws like we had last year in the final and Mayo had many times before.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11732 - 29/07/2020 14:31:55
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Income figures would include capital grant aid and can be misleading depending on if a county is undertaking a capital project in a given year.
In terms of success being revenue driven, to a point absolutely yes. The quality of coaching, facilities, access to physiotherapy, diet and subsistence, statisticians, sports psychology, things like having a full time S & C team and just generally being well prepared all contributes to success.
Professional sports teams spend an absolute fortune on the above for a reason but money is just one aspect, implementation is key, and innate ability even more so. There will be a point of diminishing returns of course, and like everything in life, 80% of the results probably come from 20% of the input.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1957 - 29/07/2020 14:36:46
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I don't know how much Mayo get from Elverys but I believe Mayo jersey sales in recent years has made Elverys a tidy sum...I assume all counties get a cut from Jersey sales?
I was actually not aware of the Smyths toys deal....Smyths of course being Claremorris natives.
Although I think it was a 2017 report that showed the vast majority of fundraising funds came from supporters and not commercial sponsorship.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10339 - 29/07/2020 14:56:34
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Replying To yew_tree: "I don't know how much Mayo get from Elverys but I believe Mayo jersey sales in recent years has made Elverys a tidy sum...I assume all counties get a cut from Jersey sales?
I was actually not aware of the Smyths toys deal....Smyths of course being Claremorris natives.
Although I think it was a 2017 report that showed the vast majority of fundraising funds came from supporters and not commercial sponsorship." Yew, are they the same Smyths that had the newsagents near the square in Claremorris?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5955 - 29/07/2020 15:35:45
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I would worry about the future of a lot of GAA county team sponsorship. Especially post Covid. I can see some really lean times ahead sadly for a lot of county teams. What is a way around it. Well I think the GAA should embrace our language and culture more. It is one big way to differentiate an CLG with our competitors of Soccer and Rugby.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1927 - 29/07/2020 22:55:53
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Yew, are they the same Smyths that had the newsagents near the square in Claremorris?" Yes, that newsagent is still open to this day. The first and original toy store operated there until it was moved out to a new superstore on the old ballindine road about 10 years ago.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10339 - 30/07/2020 07:05:53
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Do we need transparency ?
Does every company publish details of all its deals ? No. So why do we expect sporting bodies to do it ? Are we just nosy?
Sure - there needs to be some oversight but that's a matter for the counties themselves, not the worfld in general.
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 369 - 30/07/2020 09:41:08
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Replying To lionofludesch: "Do we need transparency ?
Does every company publish details of all its deals ? No. So why do we expect sporting bodies to do it ? Are we just nosy?
Sure - there needs to be some oversight but that's a matter for the counties themselves, not the worfld in general." I suppose there are a few issues at play im raising. One is a counties ability to raise fiance through, sponsorship - commercial deals, fundraising and gate receipt and other revenue streams. That obviously varies from County to county. There is often a debate about equity in Games development funding or central funds funding from the GAA to County boards in terms of equity. Yet it seems that that central funds are just a part of a County funds - the biggest revenue stream are through commercial, gate, sponsorship and fundraising. Yet there isnt the same debate on the equality of that in a communal organisation or the competitive edge it seems to give - if im reading this thread right on general consensus. People get het up over central funds yet there seems a bigger inequality in this area. Perhaps its fair enough - counties are raising this money themselves, perhaps its unfair on equality amongst all counties - with say Dublin and bigger counties at a bigger advantage - thats the question im posing?
Does it need to be transparent, well obviously not if its not really available, should it be? Well there is a significant fundraising element to to GAA activates, subs and money from the public going in to Counties - some accountability or transparency i would think is best practice.
We talked yesterday, about Dublin and Kerry income - we would have all lost money on who had more income in 19, Dublin and Kerry, turns out its Kerry and fair play to them (not to start the Dublin and Kerry thing), based on the articles above. so that presumption is perhaps evidence that the whole area is under the radar a bit.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 30/07/2020 13:17:55
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Replying To TheUsername: "I suppose there are a few issues at play im raising. One is a counties ability to raise fiance through, sponsorship - commercial deals, fundraising and gate receipt and other revenue streams. That obviously varies from County to county. There is often a debate about equity in Games development funding or central funds funding from the GAA to County boards in terms of equity. Yet it seems that that central funds are just a part of a County funds - the biggest revenue stream are through commercial, gate, sponsorship and fundraising. Yet there isnt the same debate on the equality of that in a communal organisation or the competitive edge it seems to give - if im reading this thread right on general consensus. People get het up over central funds yet there seems a bigger inequality in this area. Perhaps its fair enough - counties are raising this money themselves, perhaps its unfair on equality amongst all counties - with say Dublin and bigger counties at a bigger advantage - thats the question im posing?
Does it need to be transparent, well obviously not if its not really available, should it be? Well there is a significant fundraising element to to GAA activates, subs and money from the public going in to Counties - some accountability or transparency i would think is best practice.
We talked yesterday, about Dublin and Kerry income - we would have all lost money on who had more income in 19, Dublin and Kerry, turns out its Kerry and fair play to them (not to start the Dublin and Kerry thing), based on the articles above. so that presumption is perhaps evidence that the whole area is under the radar a bit." And out of Kerry and dublin who had the biggest expenditure? Kerry who had to play 7 of our 8 championship games away from home or dublin who had to play 2 of their championship games away from home?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11732 - 30/07/2020 14:28:20
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "And out of Kerry and dublin who had the biggest expenditure? Kerry who had to play 7 of our 8 championship games away from home or dublin who had to play 2 of their championship games away from home?" I remember some Dublin fans pointing out Mayo spent a lot of money on travel logistics and accommodation while completely ignoring the cost of bringing an inter county squad to Dublin and putting them for for a night or 2 and doing this 5/6 times a year....these are costs Dublin don't incur but its not their fault and outside of anyone's control but it's a fact counties the furthest from Dublin like Kerry, Mayo, Donegal etc will incur huge logistical cost
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10339 - 30/07/2020 15:02:50
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Replying To yew_tree: "I remember some Dublin fans pointing out Mayo spent a lot of money on travel logistics and accommodation while completely ignoring the cost of bringing an inter county squad to Dublin and putting them for for a night or 2 and doing this 5/6 times a year....these are costs Dublin don't incur but its not their fault and outside of anyone's control but it's a fact counties the furthest from Dublin like Kerry, Mayo, Donegal etc will incur huge logistical cost" Ya I remember that yew, and that was the year when ye had 3-4 replays.
Maybe the gaa should build a hotel on the outskirts of dublin where gaa teams can stay and feed their players for free, they're quick to throw away money on other things maybe this would buy them a bit of goodwill.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11732 - 30/07/2020 17:33:45
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