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A Look Back On 2017 All Ireland SFC Final

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You'd be sick of watching re runs of old matches but Mayo really kicked that one away. The missed chances, Aidan O'Shea point attempt after the goal, Cillian O'Connor free off the post, Donie Vaughan's sending off and they pretty much dominated Dublin in the first half.

gaelicgab (USA) - Posts: 871 - 14/06/2020 21:18:01    2280837

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Replying To gaelicgab:  "You'd be sick of watching re runs of old matches but Mayo really kicked that one away. The missed chances, Aidan O'Shea point attempt after the goal, Cillian O'Connor free off the post, Donie Vaughan's sending off and they pretty much dominated Dublin in the first half."
Mr Vaughan take a bow . That was the moment Mayo lost that one imo.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1647 - 14/06/2020 21:50:48    2280838

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Replying To gaelicgab:  "You'd be sick of watching re runs of old matches but Mayo really kicked that one away. The missed chances, Aidan O'Shea point attempt after the goal, Cillian O'Connor free off the post, Donie Vaughan's sending off and they pretty much dominated Dublin in the first half."
A great game. Mayo were wasteful, but Dublin were uncharacteristically wasteful too in the first half.
Mayo should have won at least one AI in the 10s, but alas they were facing Gavin's Dubs twice, and we're taken down by a more physical Donegal. Mayo also could have won an AI or two in the 00's, but alas faced the Kerry of the gooch, Donaghy, and the O'Sé's, etc. They could've won in 96 only were taken down by a more physical Meath team etc. There is an unhealthy pattern regarding Mayo and finals, and simply not having the full hand required to win the final. If they had even one more top quality forward they may well have won in 2016/2017. It might seem harsh of me to say but I look at the Mayo of the 10s and I think that certain players were massively over-rated media darlings who could do no wrong, who ultimately were found out toward the end of the decade. It's a shame. I always said that the day Mayo eventually do win an all-Ireland is the day the media will suddenly hate them. Every sport has it's celebrity losers and god does love a trier.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 391 - 14/06/2020 22:14:45    2280840

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Donie Vaughan will be haunted by that sending off forever. Massive turning point in the game

superdub (Dublin) - Posts: 369 - 14/06/2020 22:23:00    2280843

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Replying To catch22:  "Mr Vaughan take a bow . That was the moment Mayo lost that one imo."
Nothing unexpected about Mayo hitting a few wides, though in 2017 their conversion rate in the final was higher at 62% than in either of the two finals in 2016. This Dublin team's conversion rate from scoring attempts is unprecedented, any team hoping to beat Dublin in championship would need to dominate possession convincingly unless they can match Dublin's conversion rate which as I said is unrivalled, past or present. Regarding Vaughan's dismissal, I believe it's simplistic to think Dublin would not have adapted and found a way to survive as they did last year.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 205 - 14/06/2020 22:33:09    2280844

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One event from this final that seems to be overlooked is Doherty's chance just before half-time. He had a lot of goal to aim for but seemed to just blast it straight at Cluxton.
It would have put a whole different complexion on things had that gone in...

streaker (Galway) - Posts: 385 - 14/06/2020 23:04:45    2280848

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Still don't know how we won that game. Pin of our collars and had to dig deep and use every string to our bow, we lucked out with the Donnie Vaughan incident to.

Can only say that Mayo team were the only one team to get close to our level over this successful period, Donegal bet us deservedly of course but we were starting out in our development and got ambushed, but went on to develop into a 5 in a row side and in hindsight weren't at our peak in 14.

16/17 was serious stuff, nothing in those games, hugely competitive and every quarter was battled for. Worse sides then that Mayo team have one more then one All Ireland. Huge respect for them and very unlucky to come up against us in this era.

Keegan man marking Kilkenny was a masterstroke, asked a Dublin big questions and caused a lot of chaos, until Dermo ran the show second half, thankfully they just had the one Lee Keegan, the tactical battle was as immense as the drama on the bench. Rockford was a clever manager.

Will go down as one the great finals.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 14/06/2020 23:07:40    2280849

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Nothing unexpected about Mayo hitting a few wides, though in 2017 their conversion rate in the final was higher at 62% than in either of the two finals in 2016. This Dublin team's conversion rate from scoring attempts is unprecedented, any team hoping to beat Dublin in championship would need to dominate possession convincingly unless they can match Dublin's conversion rate which as I said is unrivalled, past or present. Regarding Vaughan's dismissal, I believe it's simplistic to think Dublin would not have adapted and found a way to survive as they did last year."
Dublin may well have adapted but we'll never know. What we do know is that having 15 on the field would have given Mayo numerical advantage and if you have an advantage in a final you don't throw it away.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1647 - 15/06/2020 07:52:13    2280861

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Replying To Young_gael:  "A great game. Mayo were wasteful, but Dublin were uncharacteristically wasteful too in the first half.
Mayo should have won at least one AI in the 10s, but alas they were facing Gavin's Dubs twice, and we're taken down by a more physical Donegal. Mayo also could have won an AI or two in the 00's, but alas faced the Kerry of the gooch, Donaghy, and the O'Sé's, etc. They could've won in 96 only were taken down by a more physical Meath team etc. There is an unhealthy pattern regarding Mayo and finals, and simply not having the full hand required to win the final. If they had even one more top quality forward they may well have won in 2016/2017. It might seem harsh of me to say but I look at the Mayo of the 10s and I think that certain players were massively over-rated media darlings who could do no wrong, who ultimately were found out toward the end of the decade. It's a shame. I always said that the day Mayo eventually do win an all-Ireland is the day the media will suddenly hate them. Every sport has it's celebrity losers and god does love a trier."
Some of our players love winning more than they hate losing. Dublin absolutely detest losing and will do what it takes to win. The same for Kerry, Tyrone and Donegal. I think some of our players and some of our supporters, myself included, get anxious on the day of the final. Not all have the self belief that we'll do what it takes to win. As far back as October 1997 some smart people should have sat down and worked out why we were good enough to get to finals but fail on the big day.

Just my own opinion but I think successive managers have failed Cillian O'Connor and consequently affected the other forwards. Cillian is a quality footballer, twice Young Player of the Year, that's been let regress to the role of freetaker. He's capable of a lot more from play but it seems like too many of our forwards, including and in many cases especially Cillian, get to a scoring position, see nothing on or don't have the confidence to shoot, and manufacture a free for Cillian to take. How will that breed confidence in forwards to kick points from play? We're too reliant on Cillian's frees since 2011, just like we were relying on Ciaran Mac before that. But ultimately for me it's a mental thing, self belief. If we had a squad of Lee Keegans, Keith Higgins', Chris Barrets, Andy Morans, we'd gave at keast won one Sam since '51. I'd include Cillian in that list but he always seem to be left with a free at the end of the game when we should have scored enough by then. We don't though, but we should look at these players mindset and learn and have a squad of self believers that hate losing. Rather than shot shy footballers who fall over to give one man most of the pressure because they're not coached well enough to kick their own points.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5955 - 15/06/2020 08:28:50    2280863

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Replying To Young_gael:  "A great game. Mayo were wasteful, but Dublin were uncharacteristically wasteful too in the first half.
Mayo should have won at least one AI in the 10s, but alas they were facing Gavin's Dubs twice, and we're taken down by a more physical Donegal. Mayo also could have won an AI or two in the 00's, but alas faced the Kerry of the gooch, Donaghy, and the O'Sé's, etc. They could've won in 96 only were taken down by a more physical Meath team etc. There is an unhealthy pattern regarding Mayo and finals, and simply not having the full hand required to win the final. If they had even one more top quality forward they may well have won in 2016/2017. It might seem harsh of me to say but I look at the Mayo of the 10s and I think that certain players were massively over-rated media darlings who could do no wrong, who ultimately were found out toward the end of the decade. It's a shame. I always said that the day Mayo eventually do win an all-Ireland is the day the media will suddenly hate them. Every sport has it's celebrity losers and god does love a trier."
They simply didn't have squad depth. In that 2017 final, Colm Boyle, Andy Moran and Keith Higgins were all taken off as they had blown their gaskets, but their replacements were a step-down in quality. Although I think Rochford took off Boyle too soon. In comparison Dublin had the luxury of removing Paddy Andrews and Eoghan O'Gara at half-time to introduce Diarmuid Connolly and Kevin McManamon. That right there alone shows the difference in respective panel strength, particularly when you bear in mind that McCaffrey had got injured early on.

I know Keegan scored a goal at what looked to be a crucial time, but they definitely had a knack of either missing a good goal chance or making an error in each of their finals far too frequently for it to be a coincidence. In 2017, Doherty was clean through but hit it straight at Cluxton, and in one of the prior finals (I think 2012) Freeman had a similar chance that he failed to take. In 2012, they conceded a goal pretty much off the bat by not making sure Murphy wasn't fed an early ball, and another goal came soon after when Keane misjudged the rebound down off the post.

2013 saw a chunk of Dublin's first-half scores come off the back of Mayo mistakes (one gimme point when a back kicked a free straight to an unmarked Dublin player, while another point arose from two Mayo lads colliding into one another when dealing with an unconstested breaking ball). Even Brogan's goal in the first half was a result of indecisive goalkeeping and miscommunication. In the 2016 drawn game then Mayo scored TWO own goals in the final- I would say there has been very few own goals scored in the history of the finals. Considering they lost every final this decade by very slim margins, its fair to say that a lot of their bad luck was avoidable. They just seem to have a mental block when it comes to getting the job done.

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 598 - 15/06/2020 10:45:48    2280876

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That mayo side were a very curious animal. They seemed to play down to inferior opponents regularly and were extremely lucky to avoid defeat on a couple of occasions on the way to that final. They always performed on the big days however.

Ultimately as others have said I think they lacked the ruthlessness in front of the posts that all great teams seem to have, albeit they probably should have won one final the past decade. Beano's point about their squad depth is also well made, although no team in history could compare to the panel Dublin have had in the recent past where they often finished with a better 15 than they started with.

That Mayo half back line was a joy to watch, one of the best units in football probably ever. I know there had been a reluctance to write them off in recent years but I feel their window is well and truly closed at this stage. It will be a huge source of regret for everyone involved with the team and panel that they couldn't land the big prize but sport can be a cruel mistress as we all know.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1957 - 15/06/2020 11:20:57    2280881

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I haven't watched the game back and honestly don't have any immediate plans to do so. I remember reading a few times since that Mayo's shot conversion was the highest of any defeated side in an All-Ireland senior final, and we still couldn't fecking win it!

Jason Doherty's missed goal chance and Donal Vaughan's sending off tipped the balance, certainly.

Goals were a big thing in all of those games against Dublin, too. We always struggled to get more than one whereas that was the minimum that Dublin would get. If you're leaking two or three it's very unlikely that you're going to be successful in a final, especially given Dublin's attacking threat.

The other thing is that X factor we have for shooting ourselves in the foot. Whether it was crazy sendings-off, switching an All-Star keeper for one with a history of imploding on the big day, own goals or going for a point rather than a goal with the last kick, we were always good for some sort of drama or malfunction.

It's a shame that that group of players didn't collect at least one Celtic cross for their endeavours, but what can you do? There were several opportunities there.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1803 - 15/06/2020 12:28:29    2280894

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Replying To catch22:  "Dublin may well have adapted but we'll never know. What we do know is that having 15 on the field would have given Mayo numerical advantage and if you have an advantage in a final you don't throw it away."
You do if you're Kerry:)

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 527 - 15/06/2020 13:40:28    2280905

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Replying To Gleebo:  "I haven't watched the game back and honestly don't have any immediate plans to do so. I remember reading a few times since that Mayo's shot conversion was the highest of any defeated side in an All-Ireland senior final, and we still couldn't fecking win it!

Jason Doherty's missed goal chance and Donal Vaughan's sending off tipped the balance, certainly.

Goals were a big thing in all of those games against Dublin, too. We always struggled to get more than one whereas that was the minimum that Dublin would get. If you're leaking two or three it's very unlikely that you're going to be successful in a final, especially given Dublin's attacking threat.

The other thing is that X factor we have for shooting ourselves in the foot. Whether it was crazy sendings-off, switching an All-Star keeper for one with a history of imploding on the big day, own goals or going for a point rather than a goal with the last kick, we were always good for some sort of drama or malfunction.

It's a shame that that group of players didn't collect at least one Celtic cross for their endeavours, but what can you do? There were several opportunities there."
Make you wonder about An Mhallacht...

Galwaymaster9 (Galway) - Posts: 270 - 15/06/2020 14:06:29    2280910

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It was the best All Ireland final in a long time.

Concerned_Supp (Westmeath) - Posts: 60 - 15/06/2020 16:48:41    2280930

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Replying To Galwaymaster9:  "Make you wonder about An Mhallacht..."
It honestly doesn't. If none of the 51 squad could remember any such thing happening, that's good enough for me. Also consider that there were no funerals in Foxford that week...

The only curse is a dearth of clinical forwards over the last few decades.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1803 - 15/06/2020 16:57:20    2280933

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Doherty's missed goal chance was big, but Mannion also missed a great goal chance when he blasted it at Clarke in the second half.
There was another almost certain goal for Dublin if Rock passed to Mannion instead of punching over the bar late on. It would have been close to an open goal.
Mayo took some great scores in the game and I don't think it was wastefulness that cost them this one. The Vaughan sending off for sure, has to be considered a huge factor. I'm sure he's had nightmares about it, which must be very tough to take.
It was definitely one of the best finals I've ever seen.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 875 - 15/06/2020 17:34:58    2280941

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Some of our players love winning more than they hate losing. Dublin absolutely detest losing and will do what it takes to win. The same for Kerry, Tyrone and Donegal. I think some of our players and some of our supporters, myself included, get anxious on the day of the final. Not all have the self belief that we'll do what it takes to win. As far back as October 1997 some smart people should have sat down and worked out why we were good enough to get to finals but fail on the big day.

Just my own opinion but I think successive managers have failed Cillian O'Connor and consequently affected the other forwards. Cillian is a quality footballer, twice Young Player of the Year, that's been let regress to the role of freetaker. He's capable of a lot more from play but it seems like too many of our forwards, including and in many cases especially Cillian, get to a scoring position, see nothing on or don't have the confidence to shoot, and manufacture a free for Cillian to take. How will that breed confidence in forwards to kick points from play? We're too reliant on Cillian's frees since 2011, just like we were relying on Ciaran Mac before that. But ultimately for me it's a mental thing, self belief. If we had a squad of Lee Keegans, Keith Higgins', Chris Barrets, Andy Morans, we'd gave at keast won one Sam since '51. I'd include Cillian in that list but he always seem to be left with a free at the end of the game when we should have scored enough by then. We don't though, but we should look at these players mindset and learn and have a squad of self believers that hate losing. Rather than shot shy footballers who fall over to give one man most of the pressure because they're not coached well enough to kick their own points."
Cillian O'Connor was very wasteful at times from what I saw. Played too far out the field looking for handy ball and wouldn't stay inside with Andy Moran and fight for his ball. Goalkeepers last four or five kickouts were shocking too. Mayo backline were good but up front they lacked a punch and keepers distribution not good enough.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 237 - 15/06/2020 18:24:14    2280954

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Great game.

2 great goals each. 2 red cards each, 1 goal chance saved each, 1 late free each.

Clarke was great from his kickouts until suddenly he wasn't, and that was at the most crucial part of the game.

The last one was criminal, plenty to time to be played and Dubs down the 13 men and he finds the sideline.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13145 - 15/06/2020 20:50:39    2280965

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Replying To Gleebo:  "It honestly doesn't. If none of the 51 squad could remember any such thing happening, that's good enough for me. Also consider that there were no funerals in Foxford that week...

The only curse is a dearth of clinical forwards over the last few decades."
Ye have had a forward win FOTY and 2 win YFOTY.

The ability was there. The bottle wasn't.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4135 - 15/06/2020 21:38:34    2280975

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