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Replying To sligo joe: "Are you havin a laugh. These selections are all a bit subjective but to say "Fenton has a bit to do" takes the bikkie for the silly billy comment of the week. 5 celtic crosses, 4 all-stars, 2018 player of the year, 35 championship games played, none lost, and M.O.M many times." Fenton joined an experienced multiple all ireland winning team used to completely dominating games already when he joined their senior team. Good midfielders are rear at the moment and couldn't count them all on one hand at the moment in the country. Midfield is now quite loose and the ball not contested as much as it once was. There's no denying he is an excellent athlete and very good at getting on the end of things but I stand by my word. Would like to have seen him in a previous era battling against players I have mentioned. Opposition and overall standard of opposition much weaker compared to the past. Dublin have an excellent all round team and there's no denying Cluxton deserves his place. James McCarthy is also worth a mention but wouldn't put Fenton in that category.
winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 237 - 20/05/2020 19:33:47
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Replying To bdbuddah: "In fairness it was easier to play as a defender for Tyrone than Kerry back in that decade. Remember that Tyrone team were the first to really adopt tactics where forwards were dropped back to their own half of the pitch to crowd out the opposition attack." Worked out well for them though when they had men to take their scores at the other end.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5955 - 20/05/2020 20:23:42
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Replying To winatallcost: "Fenton joined an experienced multiple all ireland winning team used to completely dominating games already when he joined their senior team. Good midfielders are rear at the moment and couldn't count them all on one hand at the moment in the country. Midfield is now quite loose and the ball not contested as much as it once was. There's no denying he is an excellent athlete and very good at getting on the end of things but I stand by my word. Would like to have seen him in a previous era battling against players I have mentioned. Opposition and overall standard of opposition much weaker compared to the past. Dublin have an excellent all round team and there's no denying Cluxton deserves his place. James McCarthy is also worth a mention but wouldn't put Fenton in that category." Everyone has there own opinion but regarding eras and how the midfield position has evolved Brian Fenton has the physique and fielding ability to more than break even with any of the older players you mention, but how many of them could match his athleticism and speed, certainly not McDermott or O'Shea for example. The argument that the quality of the Dublin team diminishes Fenton's stature holds little water because he has been a leader of this team from a very young age and has particularly come to the fore in tight Mayo and Kerry games, bar the drawn game last year when he was doubtful up to throw-in due to illness. Consistently outstanding player.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 205 - 20/05/2020 20:24:59
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Trevor Giles......Two times POTY.
Kepak10 (Meath) - Posts: 153 - 20/05/2020 20:36:50
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Replying To TheUsername: "These polls are only water cooler ramblings, a million different opinions, for a million different reasons.
If you were serious player or team you wouldn't be less bothered about the Sunday Game team, its a nothing really in the big scheme of things." Water cooler ramblings? A bit like your posts Dr Dre :-)
And how would you know what a serious player would or wouldn't be bothered by?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11732 - 20/05/2020 20:45:25
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I've seen all the greats since the 60s but ive never seen a better forward than matt connor, he could be mentioned in the same sentence as any player really, says enough.
lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1357 - 20/05/2020 21:29:46
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Replying To Kepak10: "Trevor Giles......Two times POTY." Shout, always amazes me Colm O Rourke never gets a bigger shout in these pie in the sky teams. Darren Fay also - in-fact you'd quite fancy your chances against that named back line. St Stephen would probably save the day as usual.
Graham Geraghty to, he could play anywhere which probably counts against him a lot.
Super players, god how they tortured me.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3671 - 20/05/2020 21:49:20
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Replying To sligo joe: "Everyone has there own opinion but regarding eras and how the midfield position has evolved Brian Fenton has the physique and fielding ability to more than break even with any of the older players you mention, but how many of them could match his athleticism and speed, certainly not McDermott or O'Shea for example. The argument that the quality of the Dublin team diminishes Fenton's stature holds little water because he has been a leader of this team from a very young age and has particularly come to the fore in tight Mayo and Kerry games, bar the drawn game last year when he was doubtful up to throw-in due to illness. Consistently outstanding player." O'Se and McDermott were excellent athletes especially in their younger days and more likely to dominate in crowded areas than Fenton. Both defending their goal as much as going forwards. Rarely see Fenton catching ball under his own crossbar. See him more of an attacking player getting on end of things similar to Tohill and Buckley who I would argue were the most talented midfielders I had seen play granted Buckley not around very long. Both were more likely to score long range points from play than Buckley and could kick frees off the ground from distance. Not denying Fenton's pedigree, I just argue I've seen better.
winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 237 - 20/05/2020 22:17:57
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Replying To winatallcost: "O'Se and McDermott were excellent athletes especially in their younger days and more likely to dominate in crowded areas than Fenton. Both defending their goal as much as going forwards. Rarely see Fenton catching ball under his own crossbar. See him more of an attacking player getting on end of things similar to Tohill and Buckley who I would argue were the most talented midfielders I had seen play granted Buckley not around very long. Both were more likely to score long range points from play than Buckley and could kick frees off the ground from distance. Not denying Fenton's pedigree, I just argue I've seen better." You're making my point, game has moved on, congestion where the likes of McDermott thrived are much rarer now, usually congestion only occurs now when a player carries the ball into trouble and of course the lack of congestion under the high ball is down to improved fitness levels but Fenton's natural athleticism is a step ahead of the rest.
Remember Dublin Donegal 2016, Fenton running the game, Donegal brought M Murphy out to curb Fenton, chasing shadows, Murphy finally landed a closed fist on Fenton's jaw in frustration, what a compliment. Regarding catches in his own goal area, a non-point, Fenton isn't used in that role, Brian Howard covers that now, previously McCarthy and Bastick.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 205 - 20/05/2020 22:53:14
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Comparing Fenton to the former greats like tohill, o' shea and Buckley is like comparing apples to oranges..I was lucky enough to see tohill playing numerous times and my God what a player he was awesome he was a truly incredible player... there is very little contested kick outs nowadays compared to back then.. it was win your own ball or else you would be getting the curly finger fairly swiftly..when it was kicked out into the mixer it was a battle of the bravest in them days..
In my opinion Fenton would struggle playing in them days physically, the likes of darragh and tohill would throw him about physically.. take an average player like jack Barry from Kerry who's a big unit he can nearly always keep Fenton quiet due to his size so imagine what tohill or o'sea would do with twice the ability that Barry has and power to boot...Fenton wouldn't be seen...
I'm not disputing Fenton is a serious player and athlete but it's all short kick outs and running off the shoulder which suits athletes like Fenton added into the fact that he's playing in a great side that's pumping most teams.. when Cluxton is kicking the ball out for Dublin he has a choice off 5 free men usually.. I'd safely say if I stick a pair of boots on my aul fella who's 75 he could even kick the ball out for Dublin..
Even take my own county we have a few average ball plAyers on the team currently but they can run and run so that's mostly why there on the team.. athletes over skill..average defenders limations are masked over by the blanket.. go back to another ex Derry player Kieran mc keever corner back what a marvellous player in his day would grace any side current or past.. he was like glue and marked the likes of Mickey linden, James mc carton one on one
mick2007 (Monaghan) - Posts: 271 - 21/05/2020 10:01:07
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Replying To mick2007: "Comparing Fenton to the former greats like tohill, o' shea and Buckley is like comparing apples to oranges..I was lucky enough to see tohill playing numerous times and my God what a player he was awesome he was a truly incredible player... there is very little contested kick outs nowadays compared to back then.. it was win your own ball or else you would be getting the curly finger fairly swiftly..when it was kicked out into the mixer it was a battle of the bravest in them days..
In my opinion Fenton would struggle playing in them days physically, the likes of darragh and tohill would throw him about physically.. take an average player like jack Barry from Kerry who's a big unit he can nearly always keep Fenton quiet due to his size so imagine what tohill or o'sea would do with twice the ability that Barry has and power to boot...Fenton wouldn't be seen...
I'm not disputing Fenton is a serious player and athlete but it's all short kick outs and running off the shoulder which suits athletes like Fenton added into the fact that he's playing in a great side that's pumping most teams.. when Cluxton is kicking the ball out for Dublin he has a choice off 5 free men usually.. I'd safely say if I stick a pair of boots on my aul fella who's 75 he could even kick the ball out for Dublin..
Even take my own county we have a few average ball plAyers on the team currently but they can run and run so that's mostly why there on the team.. athletes over skill..average defenders limations are masked over by the blanket.. go back to another ex Derry player Kieran mc keever corner back what a marvellous player in his day would grace any side current or past.. he was like glue and marked the likes of Mickey linden, James mc carton one on one" I too saw those players you mention . I saw Anthony Tohill at his best and yes he was a terrific footballer . I saw Jacko in every All Ireland final he ever played . I saw Darragh O Se in every All Ireland final he ever played . In my opinion Brian Fenton is the equal of if not better than all of them . Yes those men you mention were magnificent players . But so too is Brian Fenton . To characterise him as an athlete is disrespectful and wrong . He is so much more than that . He has mastered every skill in the game including high fielding . To say he wouldn't have been seen in the company of Darragh O Se and Anthony Tohill is conjecture on your part and not something I agree with . I know it's only my opinion but I would rate Brian Fenton and Jack O Shea as the two best midfielders I have ever seen . Tohill would be very close to them .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5166 - 21/05/2020 17:30:25
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Replying To mick2007: "Comparing Fenton to the former greats like tohill, o' shea and Buckley is like comparing apples to oranges..I was lucky enough to see tohill playing numerous times and my God what a player he was awesome he was a truly incredible player... there is very little contested kick outs nowadays compared to back then.. it was win your own ball or else you would be getting the curly finger fairly swiftly..when it was kicked out into the mixer it was a battle of the bravest in them days..
In my opinion Fenton would struggle playing in them days physically, the likes of darragh and tohill would throw him about physically.. take an average player like jack Barry from Kerry who's a big unit he can nearly always keep Fenton quiet due to his size so imagine what tohill or o'sea would do with twice the ability that Barry has and power to boot...Fenton wouldn't be seen...
I'm not disputing Fenton is a serious player and athlete but it's all short kick outs and running off the shoulder which suits athletes like Fenton added into the fact that he's playing in a great side that's pumping most teams.. when Cluxton is kicking the ball out for Dublin he has a choice off 5 free men usually.. I'd safely say if I stick a pair of boots on my aul fella who's 75 he could even kick the ball out for Dublin..
Even take my own county we have a few average ball plAyers on the team currently but they can run and run so that's mostly why there on the team.. athletes over skill..average defenders limations are masked over by the blanket.. go back to another ex Derry player Kieran mc keever corner back what a marvellous player in his day would grace any side current or past.. he was like glue and marked the likes of Mickey linden, James mc carton one on one" I too saw those players you mention . I saw Anthony Tohill at his best and yes he was a terrific footballer . I saw Jackie in e dry All Ireland final he ever played . I saw Darrsgh O Se in every All Ireland final he ever played . In my opinion Brian Fenton is the equal of and better than all of them . Yes those men you mention were magnificent players . But so too is Brian Fenton . To characterise him as an athlete is disrespectful and wrong . He is so much more than that . He has mastered every skill in the game
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5166 - 21/05/2020 18:00:25
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Replying To Greengrass: "I too saw those players you mention . I saw Anthony Tohill at his best and yes he was a terrific footballer . I saw Jackie in e dry All Ireland final he ever played . I saw Darrsgh O Se in every All Ireland final he ever played . In my opinion Brian Fenton is the equal of and better than all of them . Yes those men you mention were magnificent players . But so too is Brian Fenton . To characterise him as an athlete is disrespectful and wrong . He is so much more than that . He has mastered every skill in the game" 6ft 5 and 14 stone, not surprising then, I've never seen Brian Fenton out-muscled and is surely the fastest player with that sort of physique in the game, certainly much speedier than those mentioned.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 205 - 21/05/2020 18:33:10
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Replying To mick2007: "Comparing Fenton to the former greats like tohill, o' shea and Buckley is like comparing apples to oranges..I was lucky enough to see tohill playing numerous times and my God what a player he was awesome he was a truly incredible player... there is very little contested kick outs nowadays compared to back then.. it was win your own ball or else you would be getting the curly finger fairly swiftly..when it was kicked out into the mixer it was a battle of the bravest in them days..
In my opinion Fenton would struggle playing in them days physically, the likes of darragh and tohill would throw him about physically.. take an average player like jack Barry from Kerry who's a big unit he can nearly always keep Fenton quiet due to his size so imagine what tohill or o'sea would do with twice the ability that Barry has and power to boot...Fenton wouldn't be seen...
I'm not disputing Fenton is a serious player and athlete but it's all short kick outs and running off the shoulder which suits athletes like Fenton added into the fact that he's playing in a great side that's pumping most teams.. when Cluxton is kicking the ball out for Dublin he has a choice off 5 free men usually.. I'd safely say if I stick a pair of boots on my aul fella who's 75 he could even kick the ball out for Dublin..
Even take my own county we have a few average ball plAyers on the team currently but they can run and run so that's mostly why there on the team.. athletes over skill..average defenders limations are masked over by the blanket.. go back to another ex Derry player Kieran mc keever corner back what a marvellous player in his day would grace any side current or past.. he was like glue and marked the likes of Mickey linden, James mc carton one on one" Agree with alot of your points and based on what I've seen I'd still have those players ahead of Fenton. O'Se and McDermott more physical while Tohill and Buckley had a wider range of skills. Football around the middle is so loose now. I'm not denying Fenton is a good player just not the best over 40 plus years at midfield. Equally I would make the point James McCarthy may deserve a place on the team given his influence.
winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 237 - 21/05/2020 21:00:10
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Replying To Greengrass: "I too saw those players you mention . I saw Anthony Tohill at his best and yes he was a terrific footballer . I saw Jacko in every All Ireland final he ever played . I saw Darragh O Se in every All Ireland final he ever played . In my opinion Brian Fenton is the equal of if not better than all of them . Yes those men you mention were magnificent players . But so too is Brian Fenton . To characterise him as an athlete is disrespectful and wrong . He is so much more than that . He has mastered every skill in the game including high fielding . To say he wouldn't have been seen in the company of Darragh O Se and Anthony Tohill is conjecture on your part and not something I agree with . I know it's only my opinion but I would rate Brian Fenton and Jack O Shea as the two best midfielders I have ever seen . Tohill would be very close to them ." No matter what sport it's very hard to compare players from different eras.. styles/tactics have changed over the years and not all for the better either.. when you hear of teams bringing in basketball coaches it speaks volumes of the current game and then don't get me started on the blanket defences.. the likes of Greg blaney for down was a magician on the field, would he shine in the current era - prob not because it's all about what your GPS system reads that determines if you get a starting Berth or not.. moral of the story fitness over skill trumps nowadays..
Its just a personal opinion of mine that Fenton couldn't boss a game the way tohill and darragh could in that era especially in a team that isn't vastly superior to every other team as is the case with Dublin now..
If a ball was put out into the mixer between Fenton and either tohill or darragh I know who I'd be putting my money on..or even jack Barry for that matter either!!
mick2007 (Monaghan) - Posts: 271 - 21/05/2020 21:25:39
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Replying To TheUsername: "Shout, always amazes me Colm O Rourke never gets a bigger shout in these pie in the sky teams. Darren Fay also - in-fact you'd quite fancy your chances against that named back line. St Stephen would probably save the day as usual.
Graham Geraghty to, he could play anywhere which probably counts against him a lot.
Super players, god how they tortured me." All super players. Obviously the numbers from Meath didn't vote in their droves like Kerry. Colm O'Rourke's career lasted 19 years with Meath. Won a sigerson cup in the 70's, 2 all irelands and a centenary cup in the 80's and a footballer of the year award in the 90's being a leading player throughout. O'Malley, Lyons, Fay, O'Connell, Geraghty, Giles, Dowd wouldn't be out of place on any team. Dowd 4 all-stars in four different positions. Geraghty in forwards and backs. Giles double footballer of the year winner. I could go on.
winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 237 - 21/05/2020 22:51:55
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Replying To mick2007: "No matter what sport it's very hard to compare players from different eras.. styles/tactics have changed over the years and not all for the better either.. when you hear of teams bringing in basketball coaches it speaks volumes of the current game and then don't get me started on the blanket defences.. the likes of Greg blaney for down was a magician on the field, would he shine in the current era - prob not because it's all about what your GPS system reads that determines if you get a starting Berth or not.. moral of the story fitness over skill trumps nowadays..
Its just a personal opinion of mine that Fenton couldn't boss a game the way tohill and darragh could in that era especially in a team that isn't vastly superior to every other team as is the case with Dublin now..
If a ball was put out into the mixer between Fenton and either tohill or darragh I know who I'd be putting my money on..or even jack Barry for that matter either!!" What's this game called "mixer". Players get the ball in open spaces by playing intelligent heads-up football, reading the game and drifting away from their markers. Like if we're going to rank players on their ability to snaffle the ball in the "mixer" then your best man would be someone like the Irish lock forward James Ryan who would excel, but I don't think he'd make it onto a county football team.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 205 - 21/05/2020 22:54:06
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1.Cluxton
2.Marc O'Se
3.Darren Fay
4.O'Connell
5.Keegan
6.McGeeney
7.McCaffrey
8.Fenton
9.Cavanagh
10.Galvin
11.Giles
12.Geraghty
13.Cooper
14.Murphy
15.Fitzgerald
grahamc9897 (Meath) - Posts: 1083 - 22/05/2020 05:07:37
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Replying To sligo joe: "What's this game called "mixer". Players get the ball in open spaces by playing intelligent heads-up football, reading the game and drifting away from their markers. Like if we're going to rank players on their ability to snaffle the ball in the "mixer" then your best man would be someone like the Irish lock forward James Ryan who would excel, but I don't think he'd make it onto a county football team." I'm Actually not surprised that you can't grasp the point I'm trying to make.. no doubt your one of the 1000s I'd dubs that go to 1 game of football a year stand on the hill and sing your wee heart out "cmon you boys in blue" cluxo, dermo, Berno, Cono and go home and put the joints away til the following year...... when I was playing the mixer was called the middle of the field area.. it's an area where Fento wouldn't survive with the likes of tohill and darragh.. they would eat him without salt..
Next you'll be trying to tell us that Connolly is the greatest forward that ever played the game..
Fenton reminds me of Wayne Rooney in his 1st few years playing with England he was one of the greatest Strikers ever played the game and that was coming from knowledgable lads as well like yourself within soccer circles.......over hyped
mick2007 (Monaghan) - Posts: 271 - 22/05/2020 07:33:22
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Replying To mick2007: "I'm Actually not surprised that you can't grasp the point I'm trying to make.. no doubt your one of the 1000s I'd dubs that go to 1 game of football a year stand on the hill and sing your wee heart out "cmon you boys in blue" cluxo, dermo, Berno, Cono and go home and put the joints away til the following year...... when I was playing the mixer was called the middle of the field area.. it's an area where Fento wouldn't survive with the likes of tohill and darragh.. they would eat him without salt..
Next you'll be trying to tell us that Connolly is the greatest forward that ever played the game..
Fenton reminds me of Wayne Rooney in his 1st few years playing with England he was one of the greatest Strikers ever played the game and that was coming from knowledgable lads as well like yourself within soccer circles.......over hyped" The term you used was mixer, which is what old school English football men refer to the Penalty box as.
If I've ever heard of it in a GAA context it is usually referring to the in front of goal. But again not really a GAA term, more a soccer one.
I personally wouldn't pick Fenton in my all time midfield pairing but I also find your derision of him a little strange. He's clearly an excellent midfielder who would have done well against anyone from any era.
Your little rant against the poster being some sort of 'once a year, joint smoking Dub who also thinks he's a knowledgeable soccer man that used to love Wayne Rooney' is very funny and quite revealing as to what you really think.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13145 - 22/05/2020 09:14:57
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