National Forum

Could A Professional Hurling/Football League Survive In Ireland?

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Replying To jfk21:  "The joe mcdonagh is a good compitition, try 2 football championships with 4 up and 4 down . This give all county somthing to play for . The gap it hurling team standards is more noticeable maybe weak football team have a wee bit of delusions of grandeur and always hoped for more that was ever possible . 4 down from the 1st champions would make good viewing and give near all the second championship a clear aim"
If its one up and one down from the top championship you could be stuck in the second championship for years , through bad luck and the sheer difficulty of winning any championship. 4 up and 4 down take the sting out of not being top 16

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 18/05/2020 21:36:35    2278649

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Replying To jfk21:  "The joe mcdonagh is a good compitition, try 2 football championships with 4 up and 4 down . This give all county somthing to play for . The gap it hurling team standards is more noticeable maybe weak football team have a wee bit of delusions of grandeur and always hoped for more that was ever possible . 4 down from the 1st champions would make good viewing and give near all the second championship a clear aim"
I was listening to an interview with Paul Rouse from a year ago. He made a good point about the noughties. The old League format coincided with the rise of several teams (Limerick, Sligo, Wexford, etc). Reduce the number of divisions to 2 and split both into 2 pools of 8. Retain the current Championship format (minus the Super 8s). The League should be the premier competition or at least played in the Spring/Summer.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 18/05/2020 21:37:21    2278650

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i have seen a good few dyed in the wool dublin fans go support meath at minor and u 16 level once the sons and daughters are picked and playing intercounty for Meath, the all out support for dublin becomes more novelty after that. Seen a girl from my own club whos one of the biggest Dublin fans I know , goes everywhere to watch them , up at the Meath v Mayo game this year wearing her Meath ladies tracksuit, she plays with Meath ladies minor. Seen a good few youngsters like this and they actually cop on once they get to 16 that its just a bit sad to not support the county you live in and maybe even play intercounty for.there support for the dubs is still very much there but gets watered down becoming a bit like man utd or liverpool support, espically when the speak totally culchie. if these kids are in decent clubs they usually become Meath or Kildare or whatever because they dont want to look like like a clown.

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 532 - 18/05/2020 23:28:22    2278658

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "I was listening to an interview with Paul Rouse from a year ago. He made a good point about the noughties. The old League format coincided with the rise of several teams (Limerick, Sligo, Wexford, etc). Reduce the number of divisions to 2 and split both into 2 pools of 8. Retain the current Championship format (minus the Super 8s). The League should be the premier competition or at least played in the Spring/Summer."
Limerick had nothing to do with the league format. We were lucky that some talented footballers came along the same time that a very strong hurling team switched over due to a dispute

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 19/05/2020 08:49:46    2278664

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Replying To omahant:  "Rugby split into two codes (Union and League) due to professionalism. The same may happen with GAA (say, GAA Union and renegade GAA League).

Independent 'GAA League' could be the following -
1) Pro or Semi Pro.
2) 8 franchise teams in each code.
3) Franchises controlled centrally (like US MLS).
4) 11 players on field per side.
5) Teams rent out/play at Rugby or Soccer venues.
6) Treble round robin, 21-match league.
7a) Open Draw KO Championship (2 leg QFs, SFs).
7b) Extra time if 2 legs are split (no aggregate win).
8) League & KO concurrent 7-mo season (Mar-Sep).
9) Expand to 10 teams if economicably feasible.
10) Franchises based on Cities & Prov Regions.

11a) Some playing rule changes.
11b) 45s & 65s lengthened to 55s & 85s.
11c) Allow pickup only 30 cms below the knee.
11d) Handpass needs 30 cms between ball & hand.
11e) Broken line added midway in each pitch half.
11f) Football defence must always kick ball from behind broken line to beyond midfield.
11g) No hurling score from own half, if directly from puck out, or indirectly from short puck out."
You're changing the game completely there. Rugby Union and League are now two completely different sports, though with transferrable skills. Whilst changing the game isn't necessarily a bad thing, GAA doesn't have the numbers for two rival associations.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 369 - 19/05/2020 09:35:07    2278669

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Replying To Breezy:  "Limerick had nothing to do with the league format. We were lucky that some talented footballers came along the same time that a very strong hurling team switched over due to a dispute"
Fine. Still applies to the other counties. The old format allowed them to play teams at their own level and above.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 19/05/2020 10:04:45    2278673

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "You're changing the game completely there. Rugby Union and League are now two completely different sports, though with transferrable skills. Whilst changing the game isn't necessarily a bad thing, GAA doesn't have the numbers for two rival associations."
Rugby Union and League are now two completely different sports, though with transferrable skills?

Gaelic Football and soccer are different sports with some transferable skills. Gaelic football and rugby even have some transferrable skills.

Rugby Union and Rugby League are the same sport with different team sizes and different rules, line outs, scrums, tackling is less aggressive, for me, in league in many cases to slow down opponent before play the ball. They're both rugby.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5955 - 19/05/2020 10:07:04    2278674

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Rugby Union and League are now two completely different sports, though with transferrable skills?

Gaelic Football and soccer are different sports with some transferable skills. Gaelic football and rugby even have some transferrable skills.

Rugby Union and Rugby League are the same sport with different team sizes and different rules, line outs, scrums, tackling is less aggressive, for me, in league in many cases to slow down opponent before play the ball. They're both rugby."
League and union are extremely different
You have watched virtually no rugby league especially NRL if you think tackling is less aggressive. NRL is nuts.
They are both rugby but having no breakdown and scrums are so different make the sports completely different

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 19/05/2020 11:56:40    2278685

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for professionalism maybe we should look to cricket/rugby for inspiration. Cricket brought in 20/20 and it has proved a great success forgetting people in, much quicker game. It is pretty much build around watching some sport and having a few beers. Also Rugby 7's is another sport which has greatly grown in popualrity and has been successful in non traditional rugby countries. Maybe 7's is the GAA game we should be looking at going professional with, maybe have a round in London, New York, Dubai, Melbourne

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 1990 - 19/05/2020 11:58:21    2278686

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "I was listening to an interview with Paul Rouse from a year ago. He made a good point about the noughties. The old League format coincided with the rise of several teams (Limerick, Sligo, Wexford, etc). Reduce the number of divisions to 2 and split both into 2 pools of 8. Retain the current Championship format (minus the Super 8s). The League should be the premier competition or at least played in the Spring/Summer."
Yeah I do think the intercounty game would benefit from something along those lines.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 19/05/2020 13:01:24    2278692

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I actually do think the GAA would be healthier if the club system was grown out. Not with an aim to go professional but with an aim to just get teams playing more.

It'd mean removing parish rules and giving players more freedom to transfer.

It'd have to be grown from a long way out though. It'd have to live beside the intercounty game for a while before then taking over from it. I do think there are a lot of advantages to it.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 19/05/2020 13:05:45    2278693

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah I do think the intercounty game would benefit from something along those lines."
It would. I'm not a fan of any of proposals put forward by the Fixtures Review.

You'd be looking at a Division 2 with this groups.

Pool A: Cork, Derry, Limerick, Longford, Sligo, Tipperary, Wexford, and Wicklow.

Pool B: Antrim, Carlow, Down, Leitrim, Louth, London, Offaly, and Waterford.

4 up and 4 down between each division.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 19/05/2020 13:57:13    2278696

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I actually do think the GAA would be healthier if the club system was grown out. Not with an aim to go professional but with an aim to just get teams playing more.

It'd mean removing parish rules and giving players more freedom to transfer.

It'd have to be grown from a long way out though. It'd have to live beside the intercounty game for a while before then taking over from it. I do think there are a lot of advantages to it."
It would require a reduced intercounty season. League with the old format plus the Championship equals 15 or 16 games at most for every county. Most will play less than that. The IC season should be no more than 6 months. Less if possible.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 19/05/2020 14:08:36    2278698

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Replying To KillingFields:  "You can split Dublin and not cork. Because of rate of success etc of the two. Cork doesn't need to be split because it isnt totally dominant because of its population etc.
Amalgamation isnt the answer as some counties have never been competitive and never will.
Ultimately a tiered competition should be in place. No reason division 4 sides should be playing often against division 1 sides"
What about a league/championship of two divisions of 16 teams .. split division one into 4 groups the top 2 in each group play all ireland quater finals . the bottom 4 teams are relagated ! With a 4 up 4 down system , championship 2 is not so bad place to be. Teams fear being stuck for in the second championship for years .. promotions is not so difficult with 4 teams going up per year .. everybody in danger of relegation or chasing promotion work ! I dont follow soccer but I know enough the chase for Europe and relegation make all game important

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 19/05/2020 14:47:04    2278702

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Replying To KillingFields:  "You can split Dublin and not cork. Because of rate of success etc of the two. Cork doesn't need to be split because it isnt totally dominant because of its population etc.
Amalgamation isnt the answer as some counties have never been competitive and never will.
Ultimately a tiered competition should be in place. No reason division 4 sides should be playing often against division 1 sides"
What about a league/championship of two divisions of 16 teams .. split division one into 4 groups the top 2 in each group play all ireland quater finals . the bottom 4 teams are relagated ! With a 4 up 4 down system , championship 2 is not so bad place to be. Teams fear being stuck for in the second championship for years .. promotions is not so difficult with 4 teams going up per year .. everybody in danger of relegation or chasing promotion work ! I dont follow soccer but I know enough the chase for Europe and relegation make all game important

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 19/05/2020 14:59:07    2278705

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Replying To KillingFields:  "League and union are extremely different
You have watched virtually no rugby league especially NRL if you think tackling is less aggressive. NRL is nuts.
They are both rugby but having no breakdown and scrums are so different make the sports completely different"
On the 6th tackle or if the attacker is close to the try line then yes the League tackling is as ferocious as Union. Maybe more so because players are a more similar size 1-15 compared to Union. But 1st to 5th tackle the attacker isn't as aggressive, when tackled the tackler has to release him and he has to play the ball back for the next play so for me that's less aggressive than Union tackling. Of course there are some differences, but it's an oval ball, kick forward, pass flat or backwards through the hands, tries, penalties, conversions, for me there are more similarities than differences. Not such a fan of League, too fast, League is less stop start than Union but I prefer Union.

I saw the New Zealand Maoris playing Rugby League once upon a time, in Tolka Park! It's a better game to be at than watch on TV.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5955 - 19/05/2020 15:00:00    2278706

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Replying To KillingFields:  "League and union are extremely different
You have watched virtually no rugby league especially NRL if you think tackling is less aggressive. NRL is nuts.
They are both rugby but having no breakdown and scrums are so different make the sports completely different"
Less aggressive ? You could spend all day watching Big Hits videos on YouTube.

Here's a short compilation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKnf4xbV4Ak

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 369 - 19/05/2020 15:00:22    2278707

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "Less aggressive ? You could spend all day watching Big Hits videos on YouTube.

Here's a short compilation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKnf4xbV4Ak"
They are mighty hits indeed but most tackles in League are just slowing down the attacker to play the ball, not hits to hurt and/or stop them gaining ground or passing the ball out of the tackle .

'tackling is less aggressive, for me, in league in many cases to slow down opponent before play the ball.'

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5955 - 19/05/2020 15:14:53    2278708

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Replying To jfk21:  "What about a league/championship of two divisions of 16 teams .. split division one into 4 groups the top 2 in each group play all ireland quater finals . the bottom 4 teams are relagated ! With a 4 up 4 down system , championship 2 is not so bad place to be. Teams fear being stuck for in the second championship for years .. promotions is not so difficult with 4 teams going up per year .. everybody in danger of relegation or chasing promotion work ! I dont follow soccer but I know enough the chase for Europe and relegation make all game important"
4 up 4 down in 16 team competition isnt a good thing. Too easy to be promoted. 2 up 2 down makes proper challenge to be peo.oted.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 19/05/2020 15:24:35    2278709

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "On the 6th tackle or if the attacker is close to the try line then yes the League tackling is as ferocious as Union. Maybe more so because players are a more similar size 1-15 compared to Union. But 1st to 5th tackle the attacker isn't as aggressive, when tackled the tackler has to release him and he has to play the ball back for the next play so for me that's less aggressive than Union tackling. Of course there are some differences, but it's an oval ball, kick forward, pass flat or backwards through the hands, tries, penalties, conversions, for me there are more similarities than differences. Not such a fan of League, too fast, League is less stop start than Union but I prefer Union.

I saw the New Zealand Maoris playing Rugby League once upon a time, in Tolka Park! It's a better game to be at than watch on TV."
That league has to 'play the ball' and that there isnt a ruxk/breakdown doesnt mean the sport is less aggressive
I've done a laws course for league but not actually reffed it. I dont see any issue with the pace of it. But I would prefer union and the intricacies of it

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 19/05/2020 15:27:27    2278711

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