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Could A Professional Hurling/Football League Survive In Ireland?

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Replying To Trump2020:  "In the vast majority of sports most DONT play local. I mean the Liverpool team doesn't have all local Liverpool lads nor does any NFL team for example. But you could still have both as in 99% of hurlers or footballers do NOT make the county team for various reasons so you have a huge pool to choose from."
Interesting. It will obviously never happen but I wonder what a Premier League would look like if teams could only play lads from within a 30km radius of their home?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7075 - 15/05/2020 09:36:07    2278207

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Replying To Trump2020:  "You made some great points but you seem too tied to the GAA. What I mean is for example if the GAA would quadruple ticket prices would you be ok with it? And charge triple for parking any near an event? If they're not running it all correctly doesn't it open the door for another entity? I know they're the only show in town now for Gaelic Games but it doesn't have to be."
A rival association ?

Didn't you say it wouldn't be competing with the GAA ?

Google "World Series Cricket" for a bit of background. We shouldn't be too proud to learn from other sports.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 369 - 15/05/2020 10:21:16    2278211

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Most stadiums wouldn't be suitable for a professional game."
Really ?

In what way ?

The crowds would probably be smaller than official GAA games so, if the grounds aren't fit for a professional game, they're probably not fit for what we have now.

Well - not "now" so much as "before lockdown".

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 369 - 15/05/2020 10:24:43    2278212

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "A rival association ?

Didn't you say it wouldn't be competing with the GAA ?

Google "World Series Cricket" for a bit of background. We shouldn't be too proud to learn from other sports."
Yes I said it wouldn't compete with the GAA but I was just making a point to another poster that seems to think it's "GAA or Nothing".

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1082 - 15/05/2020 11:04:49    2278216

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "Trump, you're usually a sensible poster but I think the lockdown may have got to you!

So you're thinking the players not quite good enough to play for the county would go professional and the people would have interest in watching and paying money to see them as a product, playing for Pepsi Cola or whatever? Think about that for a minute and then come out of the fog!"
Ha ha ha. Yes it has finally gotten to me. Players not quite good enough, players that can't afford to dedicate themselves, players that go abroad for employment reasons, players that went the soccer or rugby route due to hope of some type of payment, etc. As for Coke or Pepsi or Samsung, etc sponsoring a team just look at the Korean Baseball. I believe Kia and Samsung and others have teams there.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1082 - 15/05/2020 11:11:07    2278218

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Ha ha ha. Yes it has finally gotten to me. Players not quite good enough, players that can't afford to dedicate themselves, players that go abroad for employment reasons, players that went the soccer or rugby route due to hope of some type of payment, etc. As for Coke or Pepsi or Samsung, etc sponsoring a team just look at the Korean Baseball. I believe Kia and Samsung and others have teams there."
Kia, samsung are Korean companies. Them sponsoring teams in Korean sport isnt that surprising.
Now if you mentioned large multinational Irish companies yes possibly.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1636 - 15/05/2020 13:40:44    2278236

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "Really ?

In what way ?

The crowds would probably be smaller than official GAA games so, if the grounds aren't fit for a professional game, they're probably not fit for what we have now.

Well - not "now" so much as "before lockdown"."
A lot of the stadiums aren't fit but an amateur game can get away with it.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 15/05/2020 14:31:48    2278240

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if a rival to the GAA then I would expect the GAA would not allow their grounds to be used, and that any players who did take part they would then be banned by the GAA. Surely first steps to something professional would be along the lines of the Railway Cup and then maybe add a fifth team - Team World, that had the best from round the world and they could purchase 2 players from each of the provinces and they play games in NY/London/Dubai (Just thinking of someway to try and jazz up the Railway Cup).
Regarding sponsors sure we already have Kerry Group, AIG, Investec and Guinness involved in sponsorship deals!

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 1990 - 15/05/2020 15:03:59    2278243

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Replying To Trump2020:  "In the vast majority of sports most DONT play local. I mean the Liverpool team doesn't have all local Liverpool lads nor does any NFL team for example. But you could still have both as in 99% of hurlers or footballers do NOT make the county team for various reasons so you have a huge pool to choose from."
My point however is that it's the local element that drives the interest in Gaelic Games and the larger than average crowds for sports in a country of our size. Without that interest, I don't think any professional version would be viable and therefore, I think this element would have to be retained. Otherwise, I think you'd be looking at League of Ireland soccer type numbers, at best.
That wouldn't sustain a professional league and you'd have a very hard time getting any decent investors involved.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 875 - 15/05/2020 15:20:17    2278246

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "My point however is that it's the local element that drives the interest in Gaelic Games and the larger than average crowds for sports in a country of our size. Without that interest, I don't think any professional version would be viable and therefore, I think this element would have to be retained. Otherwise, I think you'd be looking at League of Ireland soccer type numbers, at best.
That wouldn't sustain a professional league and you'd have a very hard time getting any decent investors involved."
Yeah it wouldn't be easy that's for sure. But there are worse and more boring sports flourishing that have Pro and Amateur side by side with no real issues: Darts and Billiards are two examples that are easily seen. Anyone in a pub can play darts or billiards yet turn on the television and it's there too. There's Amateur Darts Leagues everywhere where the most average lad can join. Bowling is another example. Room for plenty if the product is great and proper organization, etc.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1082 - 15/05/2020 15:57:33    2278251

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Kia, samsung are Korean companies. Them sponsoring teams in Korean sport isnt that surprising.
Now if you mentioned large multinational Irish companies yes possibly."
Very true. There's multiple places money can come from: National and International Sponsors, the Government, Merchandise, TV and streaming contracts, etc.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1082 - 15/05/2020 16:05:14    2278254

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Replying To Trump2020:  "You made some great points but you seem too tied to the GAA. What I mean is for example if the GAA would quadruple ticket prices would you be ok with it? And charge triple for parking any near an event? If they're not running it all correctly doesn't it open the door for another entity? I know they're the only show in town now for Gaelic Games but it doesn't have to be."
If you mean the GAA would have to take those extreme price increase steps to support professionalism, I think you've made the best argument as to why a pro league run by a new/different organization wouldn't work.

Just as an example, if I look at my own county, Tipp hurlers played 8 games in the championship last year. If I average the crowds at those games, the average attendance over those 8 games was 42853
2 of those games had crowds of over 60,000
6 of those games had crowds of over 30,000

And if I'm being honest, Tipp aren't even the best supported county in hurling, Limerick, Cork, and Wexford can bring bigger crowds. And then you have football, and the following teams like Dublin have.

So if the GAA, who already get crowds like that, who already have huge sponsorship deals at numerous levels (per team, per competition, per stadia), who own their own stadia, and who have multiple lucrative TV deals, if they can't support professionalism without quadrupling their prices, how would a new organization, with none of those things, support a pro league?

Now maybe somewhat ironically, the above stats I gave for the GAA's status/income, could actually be used as an argument for some degree of professionalism in the games. I think its just a reality that in Ireland, the GAA are the only ones who have the means to afford it.

It is an interesting idea to discuss though.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1774 - 15/05/2020 16:16:23    2278258

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "A lot of the stadiums aren't fit but an amateur game can get away with it."
Why ?

Don't spectators need to be safe if the players aren't paid ?

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 369 - 15/05/2020 17:00:12    2278266

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "Why ?

Don't spectators need to be safe if the players aren't paid ?"
I didn't say the spectators weren't safe. The facilities in most GAA grounds are poor compared to facilities in professional sports grounds.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 15/05/2020 17:22:11    2278270

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "I didn't say the spectators weren't safe. The facilities in most GAA grounds are poor compared to facilities in professional sports grounds."
People will either come or they won't. In fact there's an argument to say that amateur grounds should be better as they don't spend money on players' wages,

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 369 - 15/05/2020 17:39:16    2278273

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "People will either come or they won't. In fact there's an argument to say that amateur grounds should be better as they don't spend money on players' wages,"
They'll come because they don't expect the grounds to be like the ones used by professional sports.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 193 - 15/05/2020 18:01:13    2278281

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "If you mean the GAA would have to take those extreme price increase steps to support professionalism, I think you've made the best argument as to why a pro league run by a new/different organization wouldn't work.

Just as an example, if I look at my own county, Tipp hurlers played 8 games in the championship last year. If I average the crowds at those games, the average attendance over those 8 games was 42853
2 of those games had crowds of over 60,000
6 of those games had crowds of over 30,000

And if I'm being honest, Tipp aren't even the best supported county in hurling, Limerick, Cork, and Wexford can bring bigger crowds. And then you have football, and the following teams like Dublin have.

So if the GAA, who already get crowds like that, who already have huge sponsorship deals at numerous levels (per team, per competition, per stadia), who own their own stadia, and who have multiple lucrative TV deals, if they can't support professionalism without quadrupling their prices, how would a new organization, with none of those things, support a pro league?

Now maybe somewhat ironically, the above stats I gave for the GAA's status/income, could actually be used as an argument for some degree of professionalism in the games. I think its just a reality that in Ireland, the GAA are the only ones who have the means to afford it.

It is an interesting idea to discuss though."
Once again you bring up great points. I was going extreme with the GAA just to prove a point that they shouldn't be the only entity no matter what. And keep in mind I am not Anti-GAA and I don't want them to go away. I just think there's room for more and if run right could flourish. And yes currently the GAA are the only show in town with no other competition in sight but that can be seen as both a good and a bad thing.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1082 - 15/05/2020 18:33:20    2278286

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A profesional league is very possible ( not in favour of it) . Nobody makes any reasonable argument in favour of professionalism on here because nobody wants it ...anybody can see the commmercial side of the Dublin team , that could be replcated in Antrim if you had a profesional league ! dublin, tipp ,waterford , cork Limerick , galway, wexford and kilkenny would be 8 teams with great support...most dual player in dublin would choose hurlin over amateur football ! People in Antrim will follow a team thst compedative . The huling championship took in 10 million lasy year , double the game and make that 20 million ...8 × 30 player a panel is 240 players . 50 k a year wages is 1.5 million a team wages , that a total of 12 million wages . A profesional league is very possible the maths are simple enough . To further my point ireland is not that small ! The original afl was run from one state with a polulation of 5 million !

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 16/05/2020 00:35:00    2278322

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Replying To jfk21:  "A profesional league is very possible ( not in favour of it) . Nobody makes any reasonable argument in favour of professionalism on here because nobody wants it ...anybody can see the commmercial side of the Dublin team , that could be replcated in Antrim if you had a profesional league ! dublin, tipp ,waterford , cork Limerick , galway, wexford and kilkenny would be 8 teams with great support...most dual player in dublin would choose hurlin over amateur football ! People in Antrim will follow a team thst compedative . The huling championship took in 10 million lasy year , double the game and make that 20 million ...8 × 30 player a panel is 240 players . 50 k a year wages is 1.5 million a team wages , that a total of 12 million wages . A profesional league is very possible the maths are simple enough . To further my point ireland is not that small ! The original afl was run from one state with a polulation of 5 million !"
Yeah. Some people here have a "can't do" attitude. I mean starting Netflix for example can't have been easy but someone did it despite the fact that you had Giants like Blockbuster and Walmart selling and renting Videos and DVDs, etc. Amazon lost money for years before becoming the Goliath it is now. Food for thought.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1082 - 16/05/2020 01:24:11    2278328

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Replying To jfk21:  "A profesional league is very possible ( not in favour of it) . Nobody makes any reasonable argument in favour of professionalism on here because nobody wants it ...anybody can see the commmercial side of the Dublin team , that could be replcated in Antrim if you had a profesional league ! dublin, tipp ,waterford , cork Limerick , galway, wexford and kilkenny would be 8 teams with great support...most dual player in dublin would choose hurlin over amateur football ! People in Antrim will follow a team thst compedative . The huling championship took in 10 million lasy year , double the game and make that 20 million ...8 × 30 player a panel is 240 players . 50 k a year wages is 1.5 million a team wages , that a total of 12 million wages . A profesional league is very possible the maths are simple enough . To further my point ireland is not that small ! The original afl was run from one state with a polulation of 5 million !"
The Wexford hurlers alone would fill most stadiums, never seen support like it over the last 3-4 years.

Absolutely love their hurling down in Wexico!

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 285 - 16/05/2020 02:27:03    2278329

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