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Tailteann Cup - Tier 2

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The focus should b giving these counties- my own included, a realistic chance of winning something other than a league title. It offers teams the chance to play against similar or better teams with a chance of beating them. It's about time we come to the realisation that theres a huge gulf in terms of the top and the rest. And maybe it's not a 50/50 type split but you have to start somewhere. I hope it develops further like the hurling ones have - christy ring/lower ones and now the joe mcdonagh/christy ring/lower ones. The gaa saw the need to tweak it to bridge the gap to the top (liam McCarthy) and they did so accordingly. I think/hope this is what happens to the football but it has to start somewhere and be bought into. The day of the fairytales is over in the gaa as money is now a driving factor. While the media thing is grand and all, it hasn't hampered the hurling comps. Players want to win and progress. Currently lots of lads leave county panels after the league to head stateside to play. Mainly in the div 3/4 sides. Why? The realism that depending on the draw, it's a hammering and the luck of the draw in the qualifiers. But dublin win in the end anyhow! It might be no different when this is on offer, but it cant be used as a new reason why players leave. Players still get to play in their provincial championship which seems to get over looked.
Anyhow, Carlow for tailteann!

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2624 - 01/03/2020 17:16:21    2271203

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Unfortunately this wont work. Call it any cup u like. 8 of our players that beat meath in leinster championship in 2018, sitting at home this season. It appears to be the same scenario for other counties of our grade. Its telling that it's in the year of the tier 2 competition.

I said before, the only way it would work, is if media, TV players and supporters got behind it. I've not seen much in the media about it nor have I heard of any intentions of rte to schedule any showings. It needs to be promoted to the last, get the interest up and make it prestigious. To date theres been nothing. U could argue that its early in the season, but it is a new and "exciting" competition for these counties???

I honestly think if its treated like the hurling competitions, players will concentrate on their clubs not present for county and use early summer to make a few quid in US. The wont see the value of the sacrifice they make. Any players I've spoken to want to test themselves against the best, and in longfords case, they have overturned a few big teams. The question is though, is getting to a super 8 or beating the Ulster or connacht champions in the proper competition more satisfying that winning the tier 2 championship or a better achievement for that matter??

My final point is, if the gaa are going down this rd, then they definitely need to look at a 3 tier competition. For the life of me, I cannot understand why the wont call it what we're all used to and works well in club football I.e senior, intermediate and junior championships. At club level, a junior club in any county would fight tooth and nail to win their club championship and this goes for the other competitions.

Do not know why they wont go this route that is a proven model at club.level. We've gone down the cup name route before in football at it didnt work. No one outside the counties involved know much about the hurling cups as they don't get coverage....time well tell as they say!

Longfordbaz (Longford) - Posts: 145 - 01/03/2020 17:45:39    2271229

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How can the hurlers in the counties below the liam McCarthy treat their competitions so seriously, but we feel the footballers cant? What's so precious about them??

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2624 - 01/03/2020 18:25:25    2271265

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Replying To old yellar:  "How can the hurlers in the counties below the liam McCarthy treat their competitions so seriously, but we feel the footballers cant? What's so precious about them??"
Egos. All want to still associated with the Sam Maguire cup.

You need to realise your county is not good enough and play at the level suitable to be competitive for silverware.

Laois, Kerry, Carlow, Antrim and Westmeath have all benefited from this in hurling.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 285 - 01/03/2020 20:35:15    2271344

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Tommy Murphy Cup - Take 2 .....ya mean surely

KeshGFC (Fermanagh) - Posts: 240 - 02/03/2020 16:05:44    2271712

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For all the people who say this wont work etc why wont it?

None of the reasons people and players alike make any sense.

''It wont get any tv coverage'' Like i said before are the teams who are in it getting covege as is? For example have the Waterford footballers ever had a game live on TV? When's the last time the likes of Wicklow, Leitrim or Antrim were on live?

''Players don't train all year for a ''B'' Championship'' Where do they train for so? To get hammered? For the summer to be over after two games? For the off chance to maybe have a surprirse win over someone?

For some teams who'll be in it how many championship games have they even won over the last 10 years?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 402 - 02/03/2020 16:19:32    2271721

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Replying To old yellar:  "How can the hurlers in the counties below the liam McCarthy treat their competitions so seriously, but we feel the footballers cant? What's so precious about them??"
They're different circumstances.

Hurling only ever had a small number of counties competing.

Football has had a couple of B championships already that have not been successful.

There are more footballing counties with histories of success in football and the game has just generally had wider participation across the whole island.

I think there should be 2 proper tiers in football but to be lazy and say it works in hurling why not in football is really not a very worthy argument given the vastly different traditions of the competitions between the codes.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 02/03/2020 16:22:01    2271723

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Egos. All want to still associated with the Sam Maguire cup.

You need to realise your county is not good enough and play at the level suitable to be competitive for silverware.

Laois, Kerry, Carlow, Antrim and Westmeath have all benefited from this in hurling."
Those counties have benefitted but they are still a million miles from being competitive at the higher level . Laois, Westmeath and Carlow are propping up Divisions 1A and 1B with one win between them out of 15 games played . That win was recorded by Laois over Carlow. Laois, Carlow and Westmeath have a combined score difference of -161. The only county that has become competitive at the higher level in recent times is Dublin . Yes counties like to win their respective tiered competitions in hurling bit don't kid yourself . These competitions are played out in grounds that are practically empty with little or no media attention . They are played off early in the championship season and the only games that are televised are the finals . The same will happen on the Tailteann Cup . Whatever about players and management will supporters buy in ? The final of the much maligned Tommy Murphy Cup was played before an All Ireland semi final . I heard that the dates for this competition are the weekends of June 20th and 27th and July 4th and 18th. Seems like a graveyard shift to me. I hope thus competition works . However given the series of poorly judged decisions made by the leadership of the GAA over the last 18 months or so I won't be holding my breath.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5166 - 02/03/2020 16:42:34    2271729

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Hear the arguments re hurling and we can argue all we want about the real effects it has in terms of bridging a gap. No problem seeing both sides. But why cant we seem to accept that football doesnt need the same? Theres a huge divide in the football world now and tradition is great and all but counts for zip. If dublin/kerry etc continue to dominate, how are you going to keep numbers playing in other counties? Junior clubs have junior players because they see that they are junior for a reason and if good enough, they ll win the junior and get a chance in the next grade. On merit. Not because someone drew their name out of hat and paired them up there. The format might not be perfect but something has to change. How many were at our (carlow) knock out game v longford last year in the qualifiers? Not a whole lot! You ll follow your county no matter where they are at. I ve saw carlow on telly once - I was on hols, as any other time they were on telly, I was at the game! Telly/media is grand but not the be all and end all. I dont see endless articles or books on the weaker counties or players - we dont sell. It's the reality. I m all for the early finish as it might mean club games for the other 95% of the playing population might go ahead! We seem to forget the impact on these.

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2624 - 02/03/2020 17:20:21    2271735

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Replying To old yellar:  "How can the hurlers in the counties below the liam McCarthy treat their competitions so seriously, but we feel the footballers cant? What's so precious about them??"
Doesn't have the same appeal to jersey huggers if your in tier 2 ;-)

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 979 - 02/03/2020 17:26:07    2271737

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Replying To old yellar:  "Hear the arguments re hurling and we can argue all we want about the real effects it has in terms of bridging a gap. No problem seeing both sides. But why cant we seem to accept that football doesnt need the same? Theres a huge divide in the football world now and tradition is great and all but counts for zip. If dublin/kerry etc continue to dominate, how are you going to keep numbers playing in other counties? Junior clubs have junior players because they see that they are junior for a reason and if good enough, they ll win the junior and get a chance in the next grade. On merit. Not because someone drew their name out of hat and paired them up there. The format might not be perfect but something has to change. How many were at our (carlow) knock out game v longford last year in the qualifiers? Not a whole lot! You ll follow your county no matter where they are at. I ve saw carlow on telly once - I was on hols, as any other time they were on telly, I was at the game! Telly/media is grand but not the be all and end all. I dont see endless articles or books on the weaker counties or players - we dont sell. It's the reality. I m all for the early finish as it might mean club games for the other 95% of the playing population might go ahead! We seem to forget the impact on these."
I agree there needs to be change.

I agree that there needs to be a 2 tier championship.

I disagree with the idea that all 2 tier formats are better than what we had last year.

I think we need an improved top tier competition and that from that the second tier gains prestige as the entry point to the top tier.

The proposals that we've gone with are rubbish because the top tier is rubbish. Antrim win the Tailteann cup say. We get to round 1 of 3 of the qualifiers in 2021. We got to round 2 of 4 of the qualifiers last year by beating Louth. Why would teams or fans care more about the Tailteann cup than the current qualifiers. I just don't get the logic.

I really don't think that a shiny cup at the end of it with no previous history and uncertainty over whether it will have any future prestige is a reason to be excited for this competition. That's my problem with it.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 03/03/2020 05:20:10    2271840

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I agree there needs to be change.

I agree that there needs to be a 2 tier championship.

I disagree with the idea that all 2 tier formats are better than what we had last year.

I think we need an improved top tier competition and that from that the second tier gains prestige as the entry point to the top tier.

The proposals that we've gone with are rubbish because the top tier is rubbish. Antrim win the Tailteann cup say. We get to round 1 of 3 of the qualifiers in 2021. We got to round 2 of 4 of the qualifiers last year by beating Louth. Why would teams or fans care more about the Tailteann cup than the current qualifiers. I just don't get the logic.

I really don't think that a shiny cup at the end of it with no previous history and uncertainty over whether it will have any future prestige is a reason to be excited for this competition. That's my problem with it."
Always hitting the auld nail on the head regarding this subject..

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1073 - 03/03/2020 08:33:25    2271852

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Great competition. After all the complaining by weaker counties. Yous now have your own tier 2 trophy. Let the big boys fight for Sam and enjoy your mickey mouse cup. Yous made enough noise for a long time. Here it is and it's exactly what yous asked for. No division 3 or 4 team has a hope in a million of winning sam so why waste time and money putting yous into it. Enjoy !!!!

monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 208 - 03/03/2020 08:52:39    2271859

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "Great competition. After all the complaining by weaker counties. Yous now have your own tier 2 trophy. Let the big boys fight for Sam and enjoy your mickey mouse cup. Yous made enough noise for a long time. Here it is and it's exactly what yous asked for. No division 3 or 4 team has a hope in a million of winning sam so why waste time and money putting yous into it. Enjoy !!!!"
Are you putting Monaghan among the giants of the game?

OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 224 - 03/03/2020 10:03:33    2271878

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Replying To OGarmaile:  "Are you putting Monaghan among the giants of the game?"
Division 1 the last 6 years

monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 208 - 03/03/2020 10:35:40    2271888

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I sincerely hope it works, I never played at that high a level but some of my greatest memories from playing are the craic had when we won the odd championship. We all know the sacrifices that county players make. Surely an extended run of games in a tournament where there is at least a chance of winning is better than a provincial defeat followed by a potentially even more demoralizing defeat in the qualifiers?

Like others have said though, the GAA have an obligation to get this right in its first year especially. If it is marketed properly and given proper respect then there is definite scope for this to become a treasured medal to win.
Give it proper exposure and TV coverage. An proper All Stars award ceremony. Send the Tailteann All Stars away on a trip etc.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7075 - 03/03/2020 10:37:33    2271891

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "Division 1 the last 6 years"
The sky's the limit. A decade ago and you'd have been in the Tailteann Cup.

OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 224 - 03/03/2020 11:03:07    2271897

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "I sincerely hope it works, I never played at that high a level but some of my greatest memories from playing are the craic had when we won the odd championship. We all know the sacrifices that county players make. Surely an extended run of games in a tournament where there is at least a chance of winning is better than a provincial defeat followed by a potentially even more demoralizing defeat in the qualifiers?

Like others have said though, the GAA have an obligation to get this right in its first year especially. If it is marketed properly and given proper respect then there is definite scope for this to become a treasured medal to win.
Give it proper exposure and TV coverage. An proper All Stars award ceremony. Send the Tailteann All Stars away on a trip etc."
See that's part of why I dislike it. There's no extra games.

It's a similar set of teams in this that'd be in round 1 of the qualifiers. So the same sort of teams will lose their first round.

On average 1 division 3/4 reached the quarterfinals in the old format each year.

I think reaching a quarterfinal is a bigger achievement than winning a B competition.

So both are similarly difficult achievements of taken seriously but the new system is going to be lower prestige and it may not even be taken seriously.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3111 - 03/03/2020 11:58:06    2271917

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Replying To Whammo86:  "See that's part of why I dislike it. There's no extra games.

It's a similar set of teams in this that'd be in round 1 of the qualifiers. So the same sort of teams will lose their first round.

On average 1 division 3/4 reached the quarterfinals in the old format each year.

I think reaching a quarterfinal is a bigger achievement than winning a B competition.

So both are similarly difficult achievements of taken seriously but the new system is going to be lower prestige and it may not even be taken seriously."
Yeah I hear ya. And look, it's easy for the likes of me to be saying this or that. Donegal are in the current top tier and with the advantages we have in terms of size, resources and playing numbers I'd like to think we'll remain there.

Each to their own and that, but personally I'd rather aim to win a championship than get to a quarter final of the main competition. In years to come nobody will remember who made up the 8 quarter finalists. But with a championship win your name is in the record books and there's a medal of the mantlepiece.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7075 - 03/03/2020 13:38:47    2271954

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Ive no interest in this competition and I predict that this Tommy Murphy take 2 will suffer the same fate as Tommy Murphy 1
Does anyone watch the early rounds of the FA cup, you dont see the lower teams complaining playing those early rounds knowing they will never see Wembley stadium.
Its the same for the championship, its the dream and each year for lower teams its all about the journey, Dom Corrigan said as much on some of those Friday evening programmes a few years back and he, like myself, sees that the bigger teams just dont get that its the journey along the championship getting as far as you can that remains the thrill for the likes of fermanagh anyway and alot of other tier 2 teams
I think there is a tier 3 that may benefit from Tommy Murphy 2 and thats the teams that win 1 championship game in 10, but you cant say the same for ourselves, Longford, Westmeath, Clare, Derry etc.
Anyway like the endless tinkering of the rules the hierarchy are soooooo out of touch with what grassroots wants that I think a revolution is in order !

KeshGFC (Fermanagh) - Posts: 240 - 03/03/2020 13:41:46    2271957

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