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What Makes A Great Footballer - 19 Like(s)

Replying To gatha:  "I am 62 yrs old and a fan of both codes. After watching the football replay I was wondering what makes a great footballer today. The catching, kick passing, long range scoring and basically taking your man on is gone from the game for the most part you see them occasionally. I wonder would the Gooch even be considered for a senior panel today as an 18 or 19 year old. Now i will say the players today are superior athletes as far as strength and fitness but the skills required today are far different from say the 80's or 90's. To me he skill set from earlier years are more complete then today's footballers. If a player today scores from any kind of distance it is considered a fantastic score. Frank McGuigan and Matt Connor did this regularly with both feet. If you catch a clean ball today you get a free kick JackO, Mullins etc lived catching balls in traffic. Never saw John Egan or Jimmy Keaveney work their way into big square to turn around and go back out the field. I know i am getting a bit old but besides strength and fitness what is required to be an inter-county footballer today?"
Honestly this is just such complete rubbish. Did you see Jack McCaffrey, Sean O'Shea, David Moran or Brian Howard in the first game? Then there was Murchan, Fenton and Mannion in the replay. Players take on their man all the time. These players are pure class. Murchan is a corner back who roasted a midfielder and slotted the ball into bottom corner with the outside of his foot after a 50 yard run. Paddy Durcan, Con O'Callaghan, Peter Harte, Cathal McShane, Michael Murphy, Paddy McBrearty, Conor McManus, Eoin McHugh. I actually pity people who can't appreciate these guys. I don't know what game you're watching if you can't see the skills on show. They're proper ballers these lads and they're testing each other more than players ever did back in the day. The decision making is at a level that wasn't even a consideration 20 years ago.

Whammo86 (National) - 27/09/2019 22:05:04

Posters Crossing The Line - 18 Like(s)

Replying To greysoil:  "Have noticed an emerging unsavoury tone by some posters of late. Indeed, what is surprising is the posts that are being generated by users that would have appeared level headed before. There is no place for personal slights on players or indirectly on their families. Important to remember that these are amateurs giving a big chunk of their time to their counties & for our entertainment. Keep the slagging general. We never know the impact of flippant commentary. #Give respect. Get respect."
The post you refer to was not a personal slight on a player. The post was so obviously satirical. The David Clifford of the post bears next to no resemblance to the real David Clifford. The David Clifford of the post is a caricature and not even one of the real David Clifford. There was nothing specifically targeted at Clifford in that post at all. The character could have been named after any Kerry player and still have worked exactly the same. The target of the satire was categorically not David Clifford, the target of the satire was the Kerry posters who claim to be unable to compete with Dublin financially. The post was highlighting that Kerry players are hardly badly off themselves. I mean my god. I'm far from being an anti pc zealot and believe in respect for all, but we have to be able to allow for good natured humour also. There was just nothing unsavory about that post whatsoever.

Whammo86 (National) - 05/06/2019 05:41:02

Joe Brolly Finished With RTE - 15 Like(s)
I will not miss him. I never understood the Joe Brolly being "box office" (i'm cringing typing that phrase) description. He's an average GAA pundit, with a bit of a colourful turn of phrase and with a sense that he's got free license to say whatever comes into his head. He's hijacked so many conversations at times to discuss whatever it is that's of interest to him. He goes off at all sorts of tangents. I think he views himself as some sort of saviour of the Association, he's more interested in the workings of the upper offices of the sport than he is in the games himself. I actually just think he's not that good of a pundit either. I never feel he's said something new or enlightened. I think it's funny how after the Mayo Dublin semi final we was praising himself for calling their kick outs, the weak link. At halftime of that game he was specifically questioning the short kickout strategy. Mayo in the second half got cleared out in midfield as they went long which was actually what Brolly was advocating they do. His relationship with Joanne is toxic, and although the hurling coverage is far from perfect at least there is some flow to what they're doing. That has me thinking it's less Joanne's fault than Brolly's. I'm glad to see the back of him.

Whammo86 (National) - 11/09/2019 18:23:44

Analyst Claims Dubs 'Actually Being Underfunded' - 15 Like(s)

Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "You can't wait for the rural counties to die."
That's just not true. I just believe that people aren't being sensible at all on this topic. There's an idea out there that the GAA only care about Dublin GAA. It's simply not true. This a the development report for 2015 explaining all the work the GAA is doing all over the country. All I'm saying is that I don't feel Dublin should be defunded with money redistributed to weaker counties. Dublin needs coaches to deal with the sheer number of kids living in the country. It's also not true that Dublin kids aren't playing the games. The Blue Wave 2010-2017 proposal describes the numbers playing Go Games in 2010. Out of of a total population of 38k for the 2 year Go Games age group in 2010 there were over 7k playing football and almost 5k playing hurling. It's hard to know how many played both but those figures show that in 2010, before the start of Blue Wave, there was between 20-30% take up of our games by the children of Dublin. That's boys and girls, includes all the kids with no interest in sport. 20-30% take up. It will only have grown since then. To say that Dublin isn't getting kids participating is a myth.

Whammo86 (National) - 28/07/2019 21:48:09

Dublin's Success Not Down To Money - GAA President - 15 Like(s)
I just don't agree with that last part. The GDF just isn't that inequitable. Dublin also came up with the model and it's now being rolled out to Meath, Kildare, Wicklow, Louth and Belfast. I just don't see how the current 1.23m of a total budget of 11m being spent on Dublin as all that out of step. So outside of that Dublin money there's 3.5m spent development personnel, 1.5m spent on county projects. There's then 2.3m being spent on hurling development. 18m overall spend on Dublin isn't actually that much also. It's always referenced v say 1.2m as being distributed to the next county. That's not a fair comparison as I've tried to point out a number of times. It's 18m of somewhere in the region of 120m total spend on development in the same time period. It's 1/5 of the price of Páirc Ui Chaoimh. It's the going rate of about 4 centres of development. It's money efficiently spent and benefiting 10 of thousands of kids each year. It's clearly getting more people playing Gaelic games in Dublin. Imagine if say the FA implemented a games development initiative in London that was so successful and got the numbers playing soccer greatly increased. There would not be calls of it being a disgrace. There'd be no calls to defund it. It's just because of the nature of the GAA's county system that the top teams are decided by geographic borders that this becomes an issue. The GAA's remit is to promote the games. I think providing a proper coaching infrastructure in the clearly most populous area is part of that remit. If you decide to do that, there's a cost associated with it and it just has to be paid. If you ever budget a project in a business capacity there's ways to save around the edges at times, but to do a project there's a critical amount of money that is required to make it a success. It just has to be paid if the project is worth being done.

Whammo86 (National) - 26/07/2019 18:09:16


Replying To Donegalman:  "The reason I flag fake posters is because there is no other all ireland gaa forum to debate on and this one is ruined by them. I say I believe are not from Antrim. Reason? 1 You have thousands of posts and not a single one on your home county forum in hoganstand. 2 You are not involved in nor have startes any thread about Antrim gaa matches or players. 3 All your threads relate to funding, restructuring of championship formats. Politics rather than sport. 4 For a simple reply to a thread, even on page 6 or 7 of it, you get many green thumbs. Very mysterious indeed. Which leads me to believe that you are a proxy for other user names to join in by developing subjects to 'debate' about to further your own agenda. I am sorry if other posters are distracted or annoyed by this sideline topic, but it is a big one. I've watched this site deteriorate as a result of faker posting. If noone calls bullsh1t on this you will be answering threads that are made up of one user with many user names. Or you can pretend everything is ok and continue contributing to slanted inauthentic threads."
I'm one person. I don't red or green thumb myself and I preferred it when these weren't a feature to be honest. I talk about the Dublin funding a lot because there are a lot of threads on it and a lot of it irritates me into discussing. I discuss the competition structures a lot because I'm a bit of a geek. As someone from a weaker county, ways of improving the games as intercounty level is meaningful for me. I don't have a lot to talk about with Antrim, unfortunately, If you don't know they're not that high profile, but during the NFL I will occasionally post. I'm a bit removed from Antrim club football having moved to an East Meath club, I follow that club scene, although I don't post really on their own forum. No real reason why I don't, just never have. You got a lot more of a response out of me than you deserved there but I've nothing to hide.

Whammo86 (National) - 01/10/2019 17:30:51

"Why Should Anybody Have The God-Given Right To See All Games On Television?" - 13 Like(s)
It's less of a concern for me but I do really hate the overall sports right industry and media platforms in general in how their are fragmenting the market for tv. Adding new players to the market has been about increasing competition and lower costs, it's been an industry wide tactic to extract most value out of an industry that doesn't have much room for natural expansion. There is value add in that more live sport and good quality programming is being produced by my good are they really squeezing people. In the past if you wanted to see a TV3 show instead of RTE you change the channel. If you want to see an Amazon Prime show but you've already gotten Netflix and Sky do you fork out for more. It's also the demographic that this strategy targets. Lower socioeconomic classes watch more tv. They have access to fewer other leisure activities like going to dinner or seeing plays etc. It's specifically squeezing the poorer class and also rural areas. The GAA are in bed with these guys. Look also at the ads on Sky, decent amount for vice activities like gambling and drinking. Pub licensing is an ever growing an significant cut of the profit of the industry. I drink and gamble, I don't have a huge problem with vice industries personally but they do make all their profits from addicts. If it wasn't for addicts by and large drinks companies couldn't survive at their current costs of production. It's not really in keeping with the GAA's healthy lives message. Ah yeah we'll get rid of drink advertising directly but we will still have exposure to it through this middle man, who'll keep most of the profits anyway.

Whammo86 (National) - 06/08/2019 18:31:02

In Lieu Of The Advanced Mark - 13 Like(s)

Replying To omahant:  "I, like many others, am not a fan of the Advanced Mark. It rewards a team for simply catching the ball, possibly with a close range point to follow, and distorts the game. In lieu of the "reward" and to put more kick back in the game - why not "require" certain inter-zone kicks ? I would require a team's defence to kick the ball - optionally, from Behind Own 45 to the Midfield Zone (between two 65s) or beyond, and mandatorily, from Behind Own 65 to Beyond Their 65. Leaving the game otherwise the same (incl unlimited handpass sequences), I think this new rule would freshen up the spectacle."
I don't like it. I'll be honest I don't really like rules that are trying to force how teams play into some style. When there's 2 top teams playing and they're evenly enough matched then there's nothing wrong with the rules of the game. There were plenty of good football matches this year. At club level in Meath, I find the games exciting still. Can teams play really dull, boring, conservative football. Yes absolutely. I think the main issue is with those team's management rather than the rules.

Whammo86 (National) - 16/12/2019 17:49:23

Dublin's Success Not Down To Money - GAA President - 13 Like(s)
Seriously though I am a real person and have been on the site a long time. I'm originally from Antrim but have worked in Dublin for over 10 years and currently live in Dublin. I have also been playing for a Meath club for over 10 years. Up until I read the Irish Times article from 2017 I believed the likes of Ewan McKenna. There will definitely be posts of mine on here from pre 2017 where I'm critical of the money spent on Dublin. I read the article and heard for the first time about how Provincial councils pay GDOs except in Dublin where they are paid by the county board. That prompted me to look into things properly on my own. I really do feel there's a lot of misinformation out there sensationalising the money spent on Dublin. It also annoys me as an Antrim man to here say a Kerry person give out about unfairness now that they're not winning. The money that has been invested by the GAA no doubt has helped Dublin GAA. No doubt. I mean it has gotten more people playing GAA. Surely that is the key principle that is part of the GAA's mission statement to promote Gaelic Games. The GAA still are doing great work all over the country promoting our games. Anyone wanting to learn more, the most recent development report I can find from 2015, has information on what projects the association is doing all over the country to promote the games.

Whammo86 (National) - 27/07/2019 13:46:40

Keeping The Gaa Amateur And Sensible Commitment Levels - 13 Like(s)

Replying To Young_gael:  "Very fascistic, opinionated post. You raise a few good points alright, but your opinion of preservation of amateurism from yesteryear is tainted. I might personally believe in preserving amateurism but its not my place to use the forums to put my opinion across as a statement of fact. The game is evolving. Its not up to any one person to decide what should be and what should not be. Why do yo or I get the right to decide when 16 year olds can kick a ball around a pitch? Why do you or I get to decide how and when people train? Who are you to talk about "sensible commitment level?" To try and force your own ideas of regulation on an ever-changing game in the hopes of meeting some personal standard is very, very selfish. I too dont like the direction the game took over a 20 year period, but I wont create solutions out of thin air and use my own prejudices to try create a narrative that suits my own point of view. All in all a very fascistic post."
No it's not. He's just giving his opinion on what the GAA should do. This is after all a GAA forum. I don't agree with everything he says here but he's definitely highlighting areas that the GAA need to think about.

Whammo86 (National) - 21/12/2019 17:03:03

Dublin's Success Not Down To Money - GAA President - 13 Like(s)
I hate these threads. I hate responding to them because it gives them fuel to continue but I do have to try to get some perspective here. Anyone who is against the GAA's €1.5m a year games development funding going to Dublin GAA is against trying to get as many Dublin born children playing Gaelic games. That's it. That's what you are fighting. There's a project in place to coach as many of the roughly 15k children a year born in Dublin as possible. The cost of that project is currently about 3-3.5m per annum of which the GAA puts up half. Why does the GAA not put that money into other counties? It doesn't cost that amount to coach kids in other counties because there are 15k children being born in those counties each year. Also any stat that compares the money going to Dublin versus say Cork isn't a fair comparison. Anyone using those stats are basing their arguments on a bad faith use of the funding breakdown. Much of that information has been vociferously spread by the completely unbiased reporting from ... Ewan McKenna? Most of the money being spent by the games development funds is being spent on GDO's. Dublin based GDO's are employed by the Dublin county board funded in part by GAA central council. Cork GDO's are employed by Munster Council part funded by GAA central council. Cork children are still having coaching provided to them from funding provided by the GAA central council, it just never flows through the hands of the Cork county board. Dublin GAA gets around €1.5m a year of a total games development budget of around €11m. It's a whole lot less sensational number there isn't it. That's because the story is a lot less sensational than some would have you believe.

Whammo86 (National) - 25/07/2019 05:44:38

Analyst Claims Dubs 'Actually Being Underfunded' - 13 Like(s)

Replying To moc.dna:  "You gave numbers as if they were facts, yet you cannot back up these stated figures. Children under any age in the GAA are supposed to be registered for insurance & child safety reasons. Your Blue Wave figures you gave as fact are anything but & you haven't actually backed it up. It's amazing how many Dubs & GAA employees come on here stating figures & facts as if they are untouchable. Eminently believable & fact are two very different things."
That's a fair criticism. I was certainly presenting the numbers uncritically. This is an Internet forum though and few others are ever held to the scrutiny that you're applying to me. I will be more careful though because I do believe in the spirit of my arguments and don't want to undermine it. I don't believe those Blue Wave numbers to be pulled from nowhere. They actually just can't be, it's illegal to be procuring money under false pretenses. The definitely could be loose in how they've been constructed though. Some on here would have you believe that no one is playing GAA in Dublin. I don't think it's true, although it is a fair point, I don't know why the registered members numbers wouldn't be increasing. Do you have stats for membership and how they've developed. I have struggled to find them. It's becoming less true by the year as more people move from country areas to Dublin and have their kids playing. I'm not employed by the GAA or in anyway associated with a Dublin club. The club I joined since I moved to work in Dublin is based in East Meath, although I do now live in Dublin city.

Whammo86 (National) - 31/07/2019 10:02:40

Meath clubs in Leinster - 13 Like(s)

Replying To ziggy32001:  "I agree I think our structures are wrong and every player nevermind fan knows that. But you seem to think that about 6 teams from Westmeath would have no problem winning the Meath champ.I honestly doubt that."
The structures aren't that bad. The group stage is a little bit long but still from the quarter-finals on it is do or die. The same as any other championship. The group stage does mean that the best teams are more likely to make the quarterfinals, so there's less chance of getting handy quarterfinals or semifinals. The system of 1 up 1 down isn't great though. Too many teams just hanging on to their senior status. Meath teams just aren't quite good enough at Leinster level. It's not the formats fault. There's an arrogance in Meath regarding your standing as a strong football county. It's becoming less justified as the year's go on. You have to stop blaming things like club championship formats and get back to the real problem. You aren't producing the players that you once were and as a result your teams aren't good enough. I'm not really familiar with the juvenile structures but I believe there have been changes to it in recent years. Hopefully that'll see you on the path to improvement. These things don't get reversed overnight though and they don't get fixed by ignoring the real problems.

Whammo86 (Meath) - 26/11/2016 13:47:40

Analyst Claims Dubs 'Actually Being Underfunded' - 13 Like(s)

Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "I didn't suggest that. We can give children a chance to play the games without providing based on birth rates. No other sporting organisation does it."
I'm not saying we provide based on birth rates. There's no formula. Money is distributed for projects not based on an exact formula. All I'm saying is Dublin's piece of the pie is certainly not as out of step as Ewan McKenna would tell you. There isn't financial doping going on. I give birth rates because it indicates how much of a need for coaches there is in Dublin.

Whammo86 (National) - 28/07/2019 21:34:34


Replying To Jack_Goff:  "There are more schools and kids outside of dublin then in Dublin. Yet Dublin received a disproportionate amount of funding for the last 15 years giving them an unfair advantage to build for the future. You can't defend it because it wasn't fair."
I have often. You never answer the fact that you only ever consider games development money going directly to counties and forget that outside of Dublin and now Belfast, it's the Provincial councils paying for development officers. Dublin's spend in that regard comes right back in line once that's considered. There can be arguments over whether Dublin deserve to be getting money close to being in line with their population numbers, since there's likely to be less take up in Dublin than say Kerry or Donegal. That's a fair point, it doesn't tend to be the one you mostly make though. I still disagree with it. If you want to grow a business you'd want to invest in areas of greater potential growth. You have the demographics in Dublin changing such that the rural to urban migration is seeing a greater number of GAA oriented people living in Dublin. There's displacement also in strong soccer playing strongholds. Dublin is only going to be more GAA and those players need to be provided for. The All Ireland is going to be less competitive but I think that's a less important concern than getting strong numbers out playing our games. I actually feel that more focus should be made on the club game anyway and the county game scaled back hugely. That conversation is for another day.

Whammo86 (National) - 26/09/2019 12:24:36

Dublin V Louth - What A Farce - 12 Like(s)

Replying To TheUsername:  "County Dublin has a population of 1.345 mill people at the last census a chara. The exact formula for distribution isnt known in all honesty, for example i dont know why Kerry get significantly more then say Donegal or Mayo, who are counties of a similar make up and status. Personally i believe, demographics come into to a large extent, but perhaps more detailed then i have illustrated, for example i would like to hope that GAA use distribution to high figures of distribution in counties with a high population of a young demographic, targeting counties with a high demographic of minors. I dont think GAA membership comes into it much, why would provide GAA games development funding for people who are members. I would hope it is distributed however on discrepancies, i mean if there is 1.3 mill in Dublin and 39k registered players, that is a shockingly obvious priority for Games development. In truth no body really knows the formula the GAA use, i would suspect and hope its a bit of a hybrid on all of the above."
I tried to read up on this as much as I could. My perception is that there is not exact formula. The money is used in a couple of different ways. Some of it is for infrastructure development. A large amount of it is for coaching initiatives. In Dublin a lot is spent on paying GDOs. These guys are needed to organize the sheer number of kids that are coming down to the largest of clubs. County boards and Provincial councils make a case as to what they require to promote their games. Dublin GAA needs people on the ground. Those saying give that money to other counties, how are they going to use that money. What works in Dublin a part of the country with a population density that completely exceeds every other area of the country will not work in a more rural county. This is an interesting document on the work being done. Dublin definitely have benefited from the money the GAA has put into them. I don't think anything should be done about it. In case people aren't aware there are new kids born in Dublin every year. There's a cost associated with getting them out and playing our games. I think the association just have to pay it. The county game does suffer as a result but I mean what can you do. If one county dwarfs the rest in population and have their act together they are going to be at the top table. Inter county football is certainly high profile but it isn't the be all and end all of our games. This idea that people need to be in counties that can compete for All Ireland's is rubbish. There are plenty of people like me from weak counties who get loads out of the game. I really detest some of the moaning about Dublin on here. It's so resentful, it's petty, it's narrow minded and takes no consideration of all the good going into young children's lives in Dublin GAA clubs many of which are situated in some economically deprived parts of the country.

Whammo86 (National) - 28/05/2019 18:17:12

No Red Thumbs - 12 Like(s)
Very positive update to the forum to remove the red thumbs in my opinion.

Whammo86 (National) - 02/07/2020 05:42:50

Championship Restructure?? - 12 Like(s)

Replying To GerryD:  "I think your problem stems from the structure of your league and it's replicated in other Counties where it's treated as a pre season friendly competition. In Monaghan - 10 teams contest senior league and championship. League being home and away (so 18 games plus champ) where top 4 qualify for the semis and bottom 2 are relegated. No room for complacency - if you're relegated from the league your down to intermediate! It means the league is highly competitive and sets the tone for our championship. If you go down to watch games in Monaghan this weekend you'll find teams like Conor McManus Clontibrit fighting for their life to survive despite being in a champ semi a few weeks ago - Magheracloone who lost the other semi are also in trouble. League football in Monaghan is highly competitive at all levels, which has transferred to our County team. It's brilliant - every league game this weekend will have a couple of hundred people at it - tell me that's not a good thing????"
It's not possible to do that in Meath, where there's also hurling to take into account. League is definitely a very secondary competition in Meath but it works for their needs. As an outsider who came to play in Meath these proposals make a lot of sense. The championship needed to be split so that reserve teams played separately from 1st teams. They can actually have much better championships now with more games. Moving the best teams into the A league makes sense also. The Intermediate championship having 20 teams is fine. The weakest 1st teams will probably get a bit of a roasting in Championship. They will get better quality league games though with second teams joining the league. It should be 2 up 2 down for relegation. There's not enough movement between the grades was something badly wrong with the previous system that hasn't been mentioned here.

Whammo86 (Meath) - 06/10/2018 16:25:32

Championship Restructure?? - 12 Like(s)
2 up 2 down would improve things a lot. 9 is a stupid number for those going into the knockout rounds. You have to have 4 rounds instead of 3 for the sake of 1 game. You could keep 18 teams and play a Longford style championship, every team plays 3 matches. 1 ladder, 8 best records into quarterfinals. Bottom 4 into relegation playoff. With 2 losers down.

Whammo86 (Meath) - 04/08/2017 13:56:46

Playing "Keep Ball"... - 12 Like(s)

Replying To GreenandRed:  "Pre-Internet Gaelic Football was a sport. The supporters, and small football audience because of few televised games, talked about games in terms like big hits, high fielding, good scores, winning, losing , good/bad refereeing etc. Entertainment was rarely a term used describing football. Post-internet, many are describing Gaelic Football using the entertaining or boring terms. Unfortunately not just Gaelic football, someone is selling the line that many sports have to be entertaining. I think it's bullshit to draw in casual TV viewers or internet user to part with their cash. Everyone has their own definition of entertaining. Mr Internet will use the horrific 'Barcelona-like' term as if sport which is not all-out attack is somehow inferior. It isn't. I think in soccer the art of defending is a dying one. I'd prefer to watch Mayo playing lovely free flowing football and win but play a blanket defence and win rather than open attacking stuff and lose. Anyways, I'm a bad example. It's not free flowing football our good defending that's entertaining for me in a championship game. It's the physical encounters. Players battering the shite out if each other to win the ball, then the roar from the crowd when one team wins the ball them losing from their seats. Television can never adequately capture that and it never will."
I agree with this. 'Lovely football' bores me. Say Kerry v Mayo this year where there's acres of space. There was nice scoring and passing but no intensity. Nothing to get you excited. I was well entertained for about 130 minutes of the 2 finals. Loads of turnovers, good defending, good patient build up. Kerry were out on their feet in the last 10 on Sunday trying to keep in touch with Dublin. Sometimes teams have nothing left to give. Dublin managed the game well, as they should when Sam is on the line. It is bizarre to me that a very enjoyable game would be used to highlight something wrong with the game as a whole. I'd hold the finals up as an example of our game being in great shape when 2 teams try to win and are evenly enough matched.

Whammo86 (National) - 20/09/2019 11:40:32