Meath Forum

O Byrne Cup 2019

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Htaem:  "To be fair McEntee needs time to try and improve things, he took over Meath at one of our lowest points ever , the collapses under MOD were horrific, also Banty before MOD wasn't really up to much either.

Whether Andy turns out to be an effective manager or not only time will tell, but remember when he took over we hadn't had a good manager since O'Brien in 2010, a good Meath championship structure since 2002, a legitimate Leinster win since 2001 nor an All-Ireland since 1999.

It's a big job for anyone!"
The result of the Kilmacud Dunboyne game is evidence of the size of the gap which Andy Mc is trying to bridge. The fact of the matter is that several Dublin club teams are better than our best club team - Judes, Kickhams, Vincents, Na Fianna etc would probably all beat Dunboyne.

One thing that does seem clear is that the facilities for the players in Meath are better now than they were. Dunganny is infinitely better than Aras Tailteann. I attended a juvenile meeting in Aras Tailteann in 2014 and the senior team were training! The lads were doing crawls up and down the hallway of the old Aras Tailteann. At least now in Dunganny they have proper showers, food after training etc. That is a big change in only 4 years.

The other think Andy has done is created a bond between the Minors, 20's and Senior team. That will help with transitioning players through the age groups. Barry Callaghan is a great appointment to the 20's. He was unlucky with the Minor's losing to Kildare in extra time - Kildare went on to lose to Kerry in the final. Meath didn't get a back door route for some bizarre reason that year!

I hope Andy get's a good run this year - I'd like to see him finish what he has started but I think it will take him a couple of more years. Not sure there is patience there to support him though unfortunately!

ASaminthehand (Meath) - Posts: 292 - 12/11/2018 14:25:21    2150779

Link

Replying To Htaem:  "To be fair McEntee needs time to try and improve things, he took over Meath at one of our lowest points ever , the collapses under MOD were horrific, also Banty before MOD wasn't really up to much either.

Whether Andy turns out to be an effective manager or not only time will tell, but remember when he took over we hadn't had a good manager since O'Brien in 2010, a good Meath championship structure since 2002, a legitimate Leinster win since 2001 nor an All-Ireland since 1999.

It's a big job for anyone!"
And this are the facts. Unfortunately

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 12/11/2018 15:30:24    2150798

Link

Replying To royaldunne:  "And this are the facts. Unfortunately"
And we are no farther on in past 2 years

Analyst (Meath) - Posts: 1338 - 12/11/2018 16:57:50    2150822

Link

Ok well what do we suggest here, fire McEntee out or give him another few years, what's the consensus?

Personally I don't see the value in pulling the trigger on his reign too soon, Meath were as poor as I've ever seen them when he took over. Granted results haven't improved immediately but it's unrealistic to expect that, the total collapses aren't happening as regularly but we face a lot more battles than just that.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8583 - 12/11/2018 19:44:41    2150846

Link

Replying To Analyst:  "And we are no farther on in past 2 years"
Of course we are. The lowest level we have ever been was the last two years under mod. Things have been stabilized since mcentee cane in no more dead in feet after 30 mins. Lot more upper body strength too that we not as easily shoved off a ball as we were, game plan in place (albeit not always executed as they should be) . Great spirit in camp, as there is actual a team mentality which has been absent for a long time. Some of the negative players have also gone, helping with developing belief. So as we look forward things have certainly improved ten fold in some aspects in others there is static as in results, and most important consistency. They will come. We are on the right track. Rome wasn't built in a day, and we must all remember that when mcentee came in it was the lowest point EVER in Meath football, no one should expect miracles in 2 years.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 12/11/2018 20:09:43    2150852

Link

Replying To Htaem:  "Ok well what do we suggest here, fire McEntee out or give him another few years, what's the consensus?

Personally I don't see the value in pulling the trigger on his reign too soon, Meath were as poor as I've ever seen them when he took over. Granted results haven't improved immediately but it's unrealistic to expect that, the total collapses aren't happening as regularly but we face a lot more battles than just that."
It's not up for debate, he will be managing Meath next year.

Barney123 (Meath) - Posts: 676 - 12/11/2018 20:20:24    2150857

Link

Replying To Htaem:  "Ok well what do we suggest here, fire McEntee out or give him another few years, what's the consensus?

Personally I don't see the value in pulling the trigger on his reign too soon, Meath were as poor as I've ever seen them when he took over. Granted results haven't improved immediately but it's unrealistic to expect that, the total collapses aren't happening as regularly but we face a lot more battles than just that."
The jury is very much still out for me on McEntee. Meath had not advanced one iota and I think the loss to Longford is on a par with Limerick as the worst since pre-Boylan (yes RD we know you live in Westmeath!). Players are leaving at a rate of knots and most damning of all, to me, there is no discernable style of play.
Having said all of that I really don't see much point in changing managers every 2/3 years. I'd give this management team 2 years to see what they can do. Some talent from underage should be filtering through over the next season or two. If they continue to fail maybe promote the minor team (assuming they continue to perform) to keep some continuity. Lastly, and I don't think this can be ignored, I wonder is McEntee would be interested after this year. From his interviews he seems very frustrated with the lack of progress. He's a very passionate Meath man no doubt but he'll be making lots of personal sacrifices like everyone involved.

pauk123 (USA) - Posts: 189 - 12/11/2018 20:33:45    2150859

Link

Replying To Barney123:  "It's not up for debate, he will be managing Meath next year."
I'm aware of that, what I mean is do we give him another 2-3 regardless just to try and steady the ship? or is his reign solely based on next year's performances?

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8583 - 12/11/2018 20:45:48    2150862

Link

Replying To pauk123:  "The jury is very much still out for me on McEntee. Meath had not advanced one iota and I think the loss to Longford is on a par with Limerick as the worst since pre-Boylan (yes RD we know you live in Westmeath!). Players are leaving at a rate of knots and most damning of all, to me, there is no discernable style of play.
Having said all of that I really don't see much point in changing managers every 2/3 years. I'd give this management team 2 years to see what they can do. Some talent from underage should be filtering through over the next season or two. If they continue to fail maybe promote the minor team (assuming they continue to perform) to keep some continuity. Lastly, and I don't think this can be ignored, I wonder is McEntee would be interested after this year. From his interviews he seems very frustrated with the lack of progress. He's a very passionate Meath man no doubt but he'll be making lots of personal sacrifices like everyone involved."
I agree with a lot of that, McEntee is undoubtedly a very passionate, committed Meath man and I have no doubt that he is trying his best for Meath (as MOD did before him in fairness).

I don't think it's fair to say that that we haven't advanced one iota though, we may not have improved much, but we were a total shambles when he took over so we need to be patient. Also as for the Longford game, look it was a bad day at the office, but no worse than v Wexford 08, Limerick 08, Louth 12 (NFL game), Westmeath 15, Derry 16 etc etc etc

As for lads walking away, again I'm not sure if that's McEntee's fault (look it could be but I'm not convinced). Lads want to travel when they get to a certain age and/or maybe focus more on their careers than sport and you have to respect their decisions.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8583 - 12/11/2018 20:56:58    2150865

Link

Replying To Htaem:  "I agree with a lot of that, McEntee is undoubtedly a very passionate, committed Meath man and I have no doubt that he is trying his best for Meath (as MOD did before him in fairness).

I don't think it's fair to say that that we haven't advanced one iota though, we may not have improved much, but we were a total shambles when he took over so we need to be patient. Also as for the Longford game, look it was a bad day at the office, but no worse than v Wexford 08, Limerick 08, Louth 12 (NFL game), Westmeath 15, Derry 16 etc etc etc

As for lads walking away, again I'm not sure if that's McEntee's fault (look it could be but I'm not convinced). Lads want to travel when they get to a certain age and/or maybe focus more on their careers than sport and you have to respect their decisions."
On the lads leaving the panel - fact is inter county football requires a huge time commitment that can have an impact of a young fellas career. Some lads are happy to take it on board while others aren't. Meath need lads that are willing to commit to what the Management are trying to do. It is understandable if lads don't want top commit that amount of time but it is also understandable that they can't be part of the panel.
In my club a couple of lads have been on the fringes of the panel and have gotten decent game time. But one of the lads has just started a good job and simply cannot commit to the panel due to time pressures. The other lad has wanted to travel for a few years but has put it off because of football. He is getting to a point where it could be too late to go travelling and I suspect he will drop of the panel this year. A loss to club and county!
there are plenty of Dublin lads who have dropped off the Dublin panel too but their pool of players are so big you hardly ever hear about them.

ASaminthehand (Meath) - Posts: 292 - 13/11/2018 09:25:23    2150901

Link

Replying To Htaem:  "I agree with a lot of that, McEntee is undoubtedly a very passionate, committed Meath man and I have no doubt that he is trying his best for Meath (as MOD did before him in fairness).

I don't think it's fair to say that that we haven't advanced one iota though, we may not have improved much, but we were a total shambles when he took over so we need to be patient. Also as for the Longford game, look it was a bad day at the office, but no worse than v Wexford 08, Limerick 08, Louth 12 (NFL game), Westmeath 15, Derry 16 etc etc etc

As for lads walking away, again I'm not sure if that's McEntee's fault (look it could be but I'm not convinced). Lads want to travel when they get to a certain age and/or maybe focus more on their careers than sport and you have to respect their decisions."
On players leaving the panel. It could be Mc Anntee's tougher style that is turning off players. . Nobody is blaming the manager for players leaving for travel. some players are not will to commit. And I have to problem with that as well to honest. With what is required these days. What about the Simonstown guys leaving ? I am not sure what happened there.

bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1192 - 13/11/2018 11:13:53    2150922

Link

Listen we are stuck with Andy McEntee for at least another year, as should be, not because of any perceived overall improvement but because we just cannot go on changing managers at a whim.
He was appointed probably on the back of getting a team to a minor final v Dublin where they produced an improved performance of that given in the Leinster final. This was achieved by the use of a sweeper for the entire game so it was damage limitation that succeeded for about 45 minutes. Also winning an All Ireland Club final looked good on a CV but there is a lot of difference between wining with a county, where you are restricted to selecting from players born or otherwise strictly linked by permanent residence to a county and winning with a Dublin club that can set their radar on literally any player in Ireland that they feel will improve their team.
Now there is no question but that the match fitness of the team has improved no more complete fade outs that was experienced under MOD v Westmeath and Derry in particular.
So why no overall improvement?
To me I still think there is no consistent game plan, judgment is suspect and man management has also to be questioned. There were weary strong indicators of no game plan and poor judgment in the debacle v Kildare in Tullamore. Judgment was poor by continuing with a prematch warmup that should have been severely curtailed as conditions deteriorated that evening and as for a match plan or changing to plan B was clearly illustrated by the failure to make changes in the full back line and worst of all I could not understand why Cillian O'Sullivan was allowed to keep running through the center and he was supported by players running either side but the running support simply pulled up about 25 - 30 yds from goal when most required leaving Cillian completely isolated, getting bottled up or having to turn back out the field again. Man management? Taking off James Toher early in that game was to me the start as it showed no loyalty to a player who started that game very well and who may also be available to feed off O'Sullivan's runs as outlined above. As to whither man management is still an issue we may never know but the amount of walkouts from the various panels are not a good sign.
Being passionate is fine but being over-passionate can cloud judgement.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 742 - 13/11/2018 12:22:31    2150935

Link

Is James Toher back on the Meath football squad for 2019? Would be a big boost if so.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 565 - 13/11/2018 12:58:31    2150941

Link

Replying To BigJoe14:  "Is James Toher back on the Meath football squad for 2019? Would be a big boost if so."
No he is not.

Barney123 (Meath) - Posts: 676 - 13/11/2018 16:48:33    2150981

Link

Replying To MillerX:  "Listen we are stuck with Andy McEntee for at least another year, as should be, not because of any perceived overall improvement but because we just cannot go on changing managers at a whim.
He was appointed probably on the back of getting a team to a minor final v Dublin where they produced an improved performance of that given in the Leinster final. This was achieved by the use of a sweeper for the entire game so it was damage limitation that succeeded for about 45 minutes. Also winning an All Ireland Club final looked good on a CV but there is a lot of difference between wining with a county, where you are restricted to selecting from players born or otherwise strictly linked by permanent residence to a county and winning with a Dublin club that can set their radar on literally any player in Ireland that they feel will improve their team.
Now there is no question but that the match fitness of the team has improved no more complete fade outs that was experienced under MOD v Westmeath and Derry in particular.
So why no overall improvement?
To me I still think there is no consistent game plan, judgment is suspect and man management has also to be questioned. There were weary strong indicators of no game plan and poor judgment in the debacle v Kildare in Tullamore. Judgment was poor by continuing with a prematch warmup that should have been severely curtailed as conditions deteriorated that evening and as for a match plan or changing to plan B was clearly illustrated by the failure to make changes in the full back line and worst of all I could not understand why Cillian O'Sullivan was allowed to keep running through the center and he was supported by players running either side but the running support simply pulled up about 25 - 30 yds from goal when most required leaving Cillian completely isolated, getting bottled up or having to turn back out the field again. Man management? Taking off James Toher early in that game was to me the start as it showed no loyalty to a player who started that game very well and who may also be available to feed off O'Sullivan's runs as outlined above. As to whither man management is still an issue we may never know but the amount of walkouts from the various panels are not a good sign.
Being passionate is fine but being over-passionate can cloud judgement."
Give me a few viable options to mcentee, realistic ones, that you feel would do a better job???? And please no unrealistic ones like jimmy mcguiness or silly ones like geraghty. Its quiet clear to see what his game plan is, it's a running one which depends on many support runners, now when a player gets isolated and has to come back or gets turned over, I'm not blaming Andy, I'm blaming the 3 or 4 lazy runners standing back gawking at their team mate. I agree it should be mixed a bit more with a direct ball, and maybe he's planning that with a return of Newman tormey etc. I also don't blame management for players leaving, if a player is gonna leave cause he gets a bit of agro from the manager or get a bit of verbal stick, then he's a total snowflake and no use to anyone in a game when the going gets tough. Other lads that left the panel last year were lads that probably didn't want to be there in the first place and were looking for any excuse to Jack it. Unfortunetely over the last 2 years I've seen the main issue in the players total lack of consistency, it's really bad, but that's all mental and again I'm not sure Andy can be blamed for that

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 709 - 14/11/2018 06:59:34    2151067

Link

Replying To southmeathgael:  "Give me a few viable options to mcentee, realistic ones, that you feel would do a better job???? And please no unrealistic ones like jimmy mcguiness or silly ones like geraghty. Its quiet clear to see what his game plan is, it's a running one which depends on many support runners, now when a player gets isolated and has to come back or gets turned over, I'm not blaming Andy, I'm blaming the 3 or 4 lazy runners standing back gawking at their team mate. I agree it should be mixed a bit more with a direct ball, and maybe he's planning that with a return of Newman tormey etc. I also don't blame management for players leaving, if a player is gonna leave cause he gets a bit of agro from the manager or get a bit of verbal stick, then he's a total snowflake and no use to anyone in a game when the going gets tough. Other lads that left the panel last year were lads that probably didn't want to be there in the first place and were looking for any excuse to Jack it. Unfortunetely over the last 2 years I've seen the main issue in the players total lack of consistency, it's really bad, but that's all mental and again I'm not sure Andy can be blamed for that"
I am not looking to replace the manager simply because, 1. A decision has been taken by County Board and cannot be set aside without 60% (I think, following rule change). 2. Continuity is important, so tweak what is there.

I don't think it is lazy runners but runners that won't go into 'where it hurts'. The day of the ball into space near the opposition goals is long gone so accurate passing and getting into a better position than the ball carrier to receive a ball to the hands is essential, sometimes this attracts some of the opposition's attention and to be truthful some of our players shun this attention. Yet they appear year after year.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 742 - 14/11/2018 11:30:54    2151103

Link

Replying To Htaem:  "I'm aware of that, what I mean is do we give him another 2-3 regardless just to try and steady the ship? or is his reign solely based on next year's performances?"
Andy has another year of his 3 years to go , lets see how it turns out . After that year we can decide where we are heading . .

Chaisleain_Abu (Meath) - Posts: 202 - 14/11/2018 14:04:21    2151123

Link

Replying To BigJoe14:  "Is James Toher back on the Meath football squad for 2019? Would be a big boost if so."
Not directed st you, but when he did play more often than not he got dogs abuse on here from some of the Meath 'fans.' No wonder some of the players make themselves unavailable.

GlasgowRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 275 - 15/11/2018 00:06:32    2151182

Link

Anyone at that Leitrim match last weekend? I see we playing Louth in a challenge in Plunketts in Drogheda next Sunday at 2 bells, good to see they playing plenty of games anyway

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3590 - 20/11/2018 17:33:41    2151870

Link

Replying To Richieq:  "Anyone at that Leitrim match last weekend? I see we playing Louth in a challenge in Plunketts in Drogheda next Sunday at 2 bells, good to see they playing plenty of games anyway"
Didn't know that. Thanks for info

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 20/11/2018 22:11:02    2151916

Link