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Replying To gardentree: "Staying in Div 2 is going to be a hug battle, I don't think that we have the players to keep us in Div 2. The management are doing some very strange things , playing Dardis in goals is just plain stupid and they are making a complete joke out of the young lad. Is the Dun/Ash lad on the panel ?" I agree with you re goalie situation. Cant understand his thinking-its one of the most important positions on the pitch and he keeps trying to try outfield players in that position. Perhaps his intention is to have a dedicated goalie and to have a good outfield player as cover-that might work and gives him more options on the bench. I don't agree with you on not having the players to compete in Division 2. I like the way we are playing at the moment compared to last year and some of the new additions have fitted in very well. Andy will have learnt a lot in the last two seasons so I'm hopeful..
Poormouth (Meath) - Posts: 193 - 14/01/2019 16:17:30
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Replying To gardentree: "Staying in Div 2 is going to be a hug battle, I don't think that we have the players to keep us in Div 2. The management are doing some very strange things , playing Dardis in goals is just plain stupid and they are making a complete joke out of the young lad. Is the Dun/Ash lad on the panel ?" Heard Colgan left.
Barney123 (Meath) - Posts: 676 - 14/01/2019 17:06:47
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Replying To Poormouth: "I agree with you re goalie situation. Cant understand his thinking-its one of the most important positions on the pitch and he keeps trying to try outfield players in that position. Perhaps his intention is to have a dedicated goalie and to have a good outfield player as cover-that might work and gives him more options on the bench. I don't agree with you on not having the players to compete in Division 2. I like the way we are playing at the moment compared to last year and some of the new additions have fitted in very well. Andy will have learnt a lot in the last two seasons so I'm hopeful.." Just to be clear, the goalie situation has very little if anything to do with Andy until tipp game, the new gk coach has been given free reign to try out who he thinks will be a advantage. This is on the instructions of cb and his position within the management team. This is a well known fact, he will say to Andy I want to try xyz in this game and change at halftime and so on. I actually thought this was common knowledge, but I see a lot of people getting confused. This week and next Andy will sit down with Gary Rodgers and they will come to a agreed position on who will be number 1 and 16. The exercises we have seen to date is to determine who that will be. Hence why so many different options have been used . Gary wanted a broad look at those who made themselves available, dardis was either approached or he approached Gary. This is why he is been tried .
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 14/01/2019 17:09:08
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Replying To Barney123: "Heard Colgan left." Very early in the year for a walk out. At this rate, if we go by last year, we will have only our "third team" available for the championship!!!
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 742 - 14/01/2019 19:05:51
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Replying To royaldunne: "Just to be clear, the goalie situation has very little if anything to do with Andy until tipp game, the new gk coach has been given free reign to try out who he thinks will be a advantage. This is on the instructions of cb and his position within the management team. This is a well known fact, he will say to Andy I want to try xyz in this game and change at halftime and so on. I actually thought this was common knowledge, but I see a lot of people getting confused. This week and next Andy will sit down with Gary Rodgers and they will come to a agreed position on who will be number 1 and 16. The exercises we have seen to date is to determine who that will be. Hence why so many different options have been used . Gary wanted a broad look at those who made themselves available, dardis was either approached or he approached Gary. This is why he is been tried ." 6 thumbs down. Yes. That makes my new year. Brilliant. I love it. Particularly when no one has the balls to post a rebuttal of what I wrote. Hopefully this one will get 7.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 14/01/2019 19:12:34
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Replying To royaldunne: "Just to be clear, the goalie situation has very little if anything to do with Andy until tipp game, the new gk coach has been given free reign to try out who he thinks will be a advantage. This is on the instructions of cb and his position within the management team. This is a well known fact, he will say to Andy I want to try xyz in this game and change at halftime and so on. I actually thought this was common knowledge, but I see a lot of people getting confused. This week and next Andy will sit down with Gary Rodgers and they will come to a agreed position on who will be number 1 and 16. The exercises we have seen to date is to determine who that will be. Hence why so many different options have been used . Gary wanted a broad look at those who made themselves available, dardis was either approached or he approached Gary. This is why he is been tried ." Come on Conley's surely you can give me more than 6 thumbs down??
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 14/01/2019 20:08:18
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Replying To MillerX: "Very early in the year for a walk out. At this rate, if we go by last year, we will have only our "third team" available for the championship!!!" Well since he hasn't that has debunked that for you ain't it.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 14/01/2019 20:33:33
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I didn't give you a thumbs down Royaldunne but answer these for me:
Why have we tried 10 different goalkeepers under Andy and still not settled on 2?
Why has there been 4 outfield players tried in goals over this time? Surely Andy has learned it is a specialist position and care needs to be taken with it.
Who would your choice of 2 keepers be from the last 3 years?
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 126 - 14/01/2019 21:33:14
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Replying To UsernameInvalid: "I didn't give you a thumbs down Royaldunne but answer these for me:
Why have we tried 10 different goalkeepers under Andy and still not settled on 2?
Why has there been 4 outfield players tried in goals over this time? Surely Andy has learned it is a specialist position and care needs to be taken with it.
Who would your choice of 2 keepers be from the last 3 years?" Well when he came in it was por (outfield player ) was number 1 , then with his departure he rightly cast the net far and wide , (Brendan Murphy said this,) Burlingham would have been my choice but he decided not to commit, now Rodgers wants to try out a few other players. Look the man many regard as the greatest gk of all time and changed the game (cluxton) was a outfield player for club if memory serves me right. It's a bogey position for Meath and has been probably for a long time. The reason Rodgers was brought in was to solve it. All we can do is hope he does. I suppose the thing of keeping someone in a position so pivotal as gk if they not doing what is required would be foolish. I am willing and indeed hopeful that Gary can sort out the problem and coach those two to what is required. No more than that can we ask. If he didn't try out new options the question I would have is what was point in his appointment if it was same old same old. I mean we haven't had a competitive game yet, so only time will tell
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 14/01/2019 21:56:42
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A couple of points.
I have read articles describing this was Dublin third team. Which is correct. But the fact is Meath had allot of inexperienced players. The truth is the game was between an inexperienced Dublin team v inexperienced Meath team. Yes Meath did have more first team players but Meath had a serious amount of debutants.
1 6 players started the game for Meath that have never played a single second for Meath seniors in the league or championship ever eg Barry Dardis Ronan Ryan Niall Kane Niall Hickey Danny Quinn Daragh Campion. While 3 players came of the bench who have never played a single second for Meath seniors in the league or championship before. So basically Meath on Saturday had in total nearly 9 debutants who played v Dublin who have never played a competitive for Meath before.
If look at those Meath inexperienced players, 7 to 8 of those 9 players who played for Meath on Saturday were only being brought onto Meath panel for the first time ever in last few weeks.
1 Barry Dardis started in goals. He has never played a single game or second for Meath in league or championship. He was on the league panel last year as a forward but did not play. He has come into the panel as goalie for first time ever recently.
2 Ronan Ryan played corner back. Ryan has never played for Meath seniors in league or championship before. He joined the Meath panel for the first time ever a few weeks ago.
3 Niall Kane played wing back. Kane has never played a league or championship game for Meath before. Again this is his first time ever on a Meath panel.
4 Niall Hickey played wing forward and also has never played a game for Meath before in league or championship before. This is also his first time in the last weeks he has been called up to the Meath panel.
5 Danny Quinn played wing forward and also has never played league or championship for Meath before. This is his first time on the Meath panel in last few weeks.
6 Daragh Campion started at corner forward and has never played a single second game for Meath in championship or league before. Also this is his first year ever on the Meath panel.
7 James Conlon scored a point. He has never played a single second of a game for Meath in league and championship , again only recently drafted onto the Meath panel
8 And Gavin Mcoy and Marcus Brennan have also never played for Meath seniors in league or championship.
So in anyone books 9 players who have never played a competitive game ( league or championship game ) play for a county team , that team would be considered an inexperienced team. Yes Meath had more first team starters. But basically 9 debutants is not players with huge inter county experience.
So in summary we can say that the facts are on Saturday an inexperienced Dublin team played an inexperienced Meath team . That is a fact. Yet not one article or report of the match reported this. It reported Dublins inexperienced players. But failed to mention Meaths inexperienced 9 players that played on Saturday.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 14/01/2019 22:02:47
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Dublins third team wud beat must teams in leinster.
We have never in the history of gaelic football seen a county with so many inter county players as Dublin have now. In the past even a great All-Ireland winning team would have had 18 , 19 and 20 players of good inter county standard. Dublin currently have 45 to 50 maybe more good quality inter county players. Their first 15 is the best team in the country by a mile. Dublin's second team would be good enough to win leinster reach super 8 and compete in div 2. While a Dublin third team wud compete in div 3 and would probaly win leinster also. Players like Conor McHugh would walk onto any team in the country.
This Dublin third team is going for its second byrne cup in three years. It has reached 2 Byrne cup finals in 3 years. The Bynre cup is now played without Dublin first and second team. It is basically the leinster championship without the All Ireland winning Dublin team. And yet the Dubs are probaly going win 2nd Bynre cup title in 3 years.
In 2017 Dublins third team comprehensivly defeated Kildare first 15 in the Bynre cup final. That kildare team basically , the same 15 went onto be promoted from div 2 in the 2017 by winning their first 5 games and in the summer reached the leinster final. Meath kildare Westmeath Laois Offaly and the rest of leinster could all be beaten by Dublins third team. They all have been. And if Dublin win their 2nd byrne cup in.three years that looks like the reality of the situation. That Dublin third team would definitely compete at div 3 or 4 level and probaly even div 2 level. Dublin could enter 3 teams in the All Ireland championship and the 3 of them cud potentially reach the Super 8s. That team that played Meath tonight could beat every team in leinster and every team in div 3 or 4. Thats how strong the talent pool is in Dublin currently.
If any team wins 2 out of 3 years in competition they r usually considered strong opposition in that competition in any sport. Dublin will probably win 2 out of last 3 Bynre cup with their third team. What does that say about leinster football. What we can say about Dublin is they have a reservoir of football talent we have never witnessed before.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 14/01/2019 22:04:04
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Replying To royaldunne: "Well when he came in it was por (outfield player ) was number 1 , then with his departure he rightly cast the net far and wide , (Brendan Murphy said this,) Burlingham would have been my choice but he decided not to commit, now Rodgers wants to try out a few other players. Look the man many regard as the greatest gk of all time and changed the game (cluxton) was a outfield player for club if memory serves me right. It's a bogey position for Meath and has been probably for a long time. The reason Rodgers was brought in was to solve it. All we can do is hope he does. I suppose the thing of keeping someone in a position so pivotal as gk if they not doing what is required would be foolish. I am willing and indeed hopeful that Gary can sort out the problem and coach those two to what is required. No more than that can we ask. If he didn't try out new options the question I would have is what was point in his appointment if it was same old same old. I mean we haven't had a competitive game yet, so only time will tell" Exactly and he then followed suit and brought in 3 more players who played outfield with their clubs.
He was right to cast the net far and wide but in the end nothing was caught, we are still in the same position that we were in back in 2017. Bringing in Rogers hasn't fixed it and won't either because the best keepers won't commit and now they are clutching at straws.
Dardis deserves a lot of credit putting his hand up for a position in which we have been struggling for a while.
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 126 - 14/01/2019 23:32:15
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Replying To royaldunne: "Well when he came in it was por (outfield player ) was number 1 , then with his departure he rightly cast the net far and wide , (Brendan Murphy said this,) Burlingham would have been my choice but he decided not to commit, now Rodgers wants to try out a few other players. Look the man many regard as the greatest gk of all time and changed the game (cluxton) was a outfield player for club if memory serves me right. It's a bogey position for Meath and has been probably for a long time. The reason Rodgers was brought in was to solve it. All we can do is hope he does. I suppose the thing of keeping someone in a position so pivotal as gk if they not doing what is required would be foolish. I am willing and indeed hopeful that Gary can sort out the problem and coach those two to what is required. No more than that can we ask. If he didn't try out new options the question I would have is what was point in his appointment if it was same old same old. I mean we haven't had a competitive game yet, so only time will tell" As usual your posts are full of fake news presenting your perception as fact. Burlingham was dropped off the panel by andy in favour of joe sheridan. He would love to play for meath.
Poormouth (Meath) - Posts: 193 - 14/01/2019 23:39:24
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A couple of points.
1 There has been two problem areas for Meath football for long time now. The half back line and midfield. First, the half back line. The half back line is the most important line in modern football. All the best teams have top class half backs in the last two decades eg Kerry T O Se O Mahony Sullivan , Tyrone Harte Gormley Jordan , Dublin Mcarthy Sullivan McCaffrey , Mayo Keegan Boyle Vaughan. You cannot be sucessful without a top class half backs eg Peter Harte Karl Lacey Ger Brennan .
You need half back players who can defend , who can attack and play well nearly every game. Thats what James Mcarthy or lee keegan does. For me the half back line of J McEntee Keoghan Kane is the best half back line we have had in years.
J McEntee moving to wing forward has been sucessful. He is much more involved in the play and has made an impact at 5. He was brillant v Tyrone last year.
Donal keoghan wud walk onto the any team in country. A top class defender , who was wasted at corner back . Centre back has been a problem position since Enda McManus retired. While, I think Keoghan best position is wing back. He is the best centre back we have had since Liam Harnan.
Niall kane was one of best footballers in Meath club football in last 3 years. It was pretty obvious he was a inter county wing back of good standard. He is good at breaking ball. Meath have always had a breaking ball specialist eg Kevin Foley Pat Reynolds jnr. Kane playing this year is the final piece of the jigsaw. McEntee Keoghan and Kane are all good footballers , all good defenders who can all attack well and all play well consistently. That is what is called a modern half back line. Also on the bench we could have experienced players like M Burke S McEntee and P Harnan who could come on and make an impact at half back. Harnan has loads of experience, a proven inter county defender. Another option at half back. Half back line problem seems to be no longer a problem.
And also our whols back line looks solider then it has in a while. Lavin McGill Ryan J McEntee Keoghan Kane are all good defenders. And there is a serious lack of good defenders out there. Blanket defences has killed the art of defending. It has made defenders lazier and disimproved their defensive skills. A defender now knows he has two sweepers to cover him and many defenders now are better at attacking then defending. Dublin have best defenders eg McMahon Sullivan Mcarthy Cooper. While our defence is not at that level. I believe we do have 6 defenders who r natural good defenders. Take a county like kerry who have produced some of greatest defenders ever eg Sean Murphy John O Keefe P O Se T O Se M O Se Moyihan. Kerry dont have one top class defender currently. You need good defenders.
We also have options on the bench for the backs like Shane Gallagher ( who I wud play in full back line ) Shane Glynn M Burke P Harnan S McEntee. We havent had those options on the bench in the back line for a while. But if midfield is been cleaned out it doesnt matter how good ur backs our. Midfield is an issue also.
2 The other area is midfield. It looks like Flanagan and Menton are first choice. I always liked Flanagan. And he in the next few years he should improve further. Midfielders dont peak til their late 20s usually. Menton is an excellent footballer. I think he would make and excellent full back or wing back. That is his best position. But he has turned into an effective midfielder. Flanagan and Menton have formed a decent partnership. They were excellent v Tyrone last year. But what happens if any of them r injured?. There is no clear options. With Gillespie O Rourke Nash Jones all absent for different reasons, we have lost allot of midfielders. Does anyone know about Harry Rooney?. He wud be our best option at center field.
Midfield does depend on kickouts. We were successful in the past winning titles driving the ball out to the centre of midfield. You need a strategy . Something we have lacked forever. Bringing Rodgers a proven inter county coach with Westmeath and Cavan and one best goalkeeper's in the country onto the coaching staff could be a game changer. Before christmas, Rodgers was in the paper talking about the importance of kickout strategies. For me so far in Byrne cup there seems to be a more consistent and effective kickout strategy, that is so important and needs to continue.
3 The real problem area is the inside forward line. In the half forward there are options eg Reilly Sullivan Brennan Campion Forde. But on the inside line instead of depending lenihan we now depend on Newman. Its great to see Newman back. Its just a pity, lenihan is travelling. A lenihan/ Newman duo would be a good partnership inside. Actually a Newman Mckeever Lenihan inside line wud be formidable. All should be reaching their peak age as footballers eg Newman and Mckeever 28 , Lenihan 27. They are the three best inside forwards in Meath club football. But Mckeever seems not an option. And also lenhian is not an option as he is travelling .
Newman needs a partner upfront. My worry is where are the scores from play , where will they come from in the inside line. We have depended on lenihan in the last two years for scores from play in the inside line. Now its Newman. Thomas Reilly is a talented young footballer. I think he has a bright future. But I think is best position is at centre forward. He doesnt score enough from play consistently in the inside line. Brennan Campion Sullivan are more half forwards. We r missing the Wallaces.
Maybe McMahon wud be an option. He is the best natural inside forward we have. He has showns glimpses of brilllance eg Carlow 2014 Westmeath 2015. But not been consistent enough. For me young Conlon cud be the best option. U would worry how he would face against blanket defences like Fermanagh, because he is light. But he is a natural corner forward who can create space in tight areas. For me maybe a Newman Conlon partnership could maybe repeat Newmans partnership with Wallace in 2013 which was the last year, we had a good championship. Newman was nominated for an All star in 2013. Wallace scored 1-4 v Tyrone from play in the championship.
Meath football has always depended on duos on inside line eg Shanley Curran in 60s, O Rourkes Flynn in 80s , Ollie and Geraghty in 90s. We have always had top class forwards. Every generation of Meath forwards were better then Dublin forwards or kikdare forwards in every decade for decades eg 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s 90 and 00s. In this decade for the first time ever Dublin and kildare have better natural inside forwards then us. We dont have a Bernard Brogan or Mannion or Daniel Flynn in the inside line. We have good forwards. Talented. But many of them are light . I have a big concern where are the scores going to come from play in the inside line , scores from open play. We are relying on Newman. But what happens if he is marked well. Thats my worry.
4 Finally we have to start the league well. We are very consitent in the league in recent years. 4 out of the 5 last years we were 1 win away from promotion. We have been contenders and we can be contenders this year. But we always seem to finish the league strongly winning our last 3 or 4 games. We always seem to start slowly. If you lose ur first game u r playing catch up from the start. So victory over Tipp is incredibly important. Here below r league starts for this whole decade. We r slow starters. The best league we had was in 2015 when we lost out to Roscommon on head to head. In that league in 2015 we started really well. Its no coincidence that is the year we got closest to promotion in 2015, was the year we started our first few games really really well, and won our first three games
A Decade of Meath league football in the Early Rounds
2010 League Meath Div 2
1st Game Won v Armagh
2nd Game lost v Down
3rd Game Won v Westmeath
4th Game lost v Tippearey
2011 League Meath Div 2
1st Game Lost v Laois
2nd Game Won v Sligo
3rd Game lost v Antrim
4th Game lost v Donegal
2012 League Meath Div 2
1st Game Won v Monaghan
2nd Game Won v Westmeath
3rd Game lost v kildare
4th Game lost v Galway
5th Game lost v Derry
2013 league Meath Div 3
1st Game Lost v Monaghan
2nd Game Won v Wicklow
3rd Game lost v Cavan
2014 League Meath Div 2
1st Game Won v Galway
2nd Game lost v Monaghan
3rd Game lost v Armagh
2015 league Meath Div 2 ( The best start of any Meath league campaign in this decade)
1st Game Won v Galway
2nd Game Won v kildare
3rd Game Won v Westmeath
2016 league Meath Div 2
1st Game Won v Armagh
2nd Game lost v Fermanagh
3rd Game lost v Cavan
2017 league Meath Div 2
1st Game lost v kildare
2nd Game Won v Derry
3rd Game lost v Down
2018 league Meath Div 2
1st Game Draw v Roscommon
2nd Game Win v Clare
3rd Game lost v Cavan
4th Game lost v Tippearey
We finished strongly in 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 and 2018 leagues. We can wins game back to back in the league in the later roundz. But we are poor starters.
We have started the league badly in first few games in the campaigns of 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2016 2017 2018. The only league campaign really started well was 2015 when we won our first three games. Thats the closest we have to got to promotion to div 1. If the GAA didnt change the rules and did take into scoring difference, not head to head we wud have being promoted , instead of Roscommon.
A good start is essential. If we can win game 3 or 4 games back to back at the end of the league. Why not at the start?. We lost 2 out of our first three games in the league 5 times in this decade in the years 2011 2013 2014 2016 and 2017.
But the most important weekend in league football is week 3. This is when the teams who are going to be promoted break into one group and the others break into relegation fight. Week 3 is a big big week in league football. In week 3 we have lost 7 times out of 9 years in this decade. We lost game 3 in the years 2011 2012 2013 2014 2016 2017 and 2018. The last year we won game 3 was 2015, the closest we got to promotion.
5 So we need to beat Tipp but we need also to beat Armagh in week 3. A good start and we have a great chance of promotion. Donegal in Ballybofey in week 2 is on paper the toughest game on paper. But we are capable of really testing Donegal and go for toe to toe with them for 70 mins and then lose to Armgh , Clare and Fermanagh. Meath v Donegal are always close games. We do up our game v the top teams eg Donegal Roscommon in 2017 , Roscommon Tyrone in 2018 and Dublin twice in the last month. Our problem is v div 2 or div 3 teams eg Tippearey Cavan Longford. If we can be more consistent v div 2 or div 3 teams this will be massive.
6 So finally I am quitely confident we can get promoted this year. I didnt feel we would get promoted last year or in 2017 or 2016 or 2015. The last time I was confident was in 2014 after our good showing v Tyrone and Dublin in 2013. But for the first time in 6 years I think we have chance.
Why? 4 of the games are in Navan. There are only 3 Ulster teams ( sometimes div 2 has been a mini Ulster championship). There is only 1 local.derby v kildare. local derbys v louth Cavan and kildare have cost us in div 2. But why I think we might go up is this McEntees third year. The pressure is on. While I think McEntee needs another year or two to improve things. This cud be his last year. Also he is slowly building a new team each year with new players. And allot of our players are reaching their mid 20s so they should be starting to peak as footballers and their physical conditioning should be improving. Nally also seems to be having a an influence with a more attacking style in Byrne cup. And the new rules of three pasess and kick cud suit our players better then the possession game. So I think we will cud get promted. It just feeling in my gut , a feeling in water. I always felt when allot of our players reached their mid 20s eg McGill McEntee Lavin Sullivan Brennan they would be pushing for promotion. I know there is allot of evidence to say we wouldnt. But I cud be wrong. Its a gut feeling, more then anything.
Remeber there is nearly always a surprise team who gets promoted. Last year no one expected Cavan to get promoted. In 2017 no one was tipping kildare for promotion. In 2015 no one was expecting Roscommon to be promoted. No one expected Cavan in 2016 to be promoted. And no was tipping Monaghan to be promoted in 2014 from div 2. No one predicted Westmeath would be promoted in 2013 to div 1. No one predicted laois would win promotion to div 1 in 2011. And no one predicted Down would be promoted in 2010 to div 1. So in the last decade , in the last 9 years in div 2 in 8 those 9 years we have had teams that were promoted that was a surprise at the time eg Cavan in 2018 kildare in 2017 Cavan in 2016 and Roscommon in 2015 Monaghan in 2014 Westmeath in 2013 Laois in 2012 and Down in 2010. Who will be the surprise package in 2019 ?. Cud it be Tippearey or Armagh or Rory Gallaghers Fermanangh or what about the team who has been so close in recent years eg Meath. Div 2 is very unpredictable and there will be many surprise results.
And the other thread is a team wins there first 5 or so matchs in a row and are promoted with a round or two to go. Kildare in 2017 Tyrone in 2016 Donegal in 2014 are all teams which won there first few games and where promoted with a round or two to go. A strong start is essential for sucess in div 2.
7 Promotion to div 1 would be transformational for Meath football. Year after year in div 2 has sucked the life and soul out of Meath football. It is very hard to predict as we are so inconsistent. We could beat Donegal and then lose to Clare and Fermanagh. We are so bloody inconsistent. But if we just start the league strongly like we usually end the league, we will definitely be in contention. I just have gut feeling we might just do it this year. But sure its the hope that kills ye.
PS Any news on Harry Rooney. Is he not on the panel this year. Any news on Alan Forde. Forde would be a great addition. He offers a workrate and attacking and defensive qualities on the 40.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 15/01/2019 09:33:52
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Replying To Furlong1949: "A couple of points.
1 There has been two problem areas for Meath football for long time now. The half back line and midfield. First, the half back line. The half back line is the most important line in modern football. All the best teams have top class half backs in the last two decades eg Kerry T O Se O Mahony Sullivan , Tyrone Harte Gormley Jordan , Dublin Mcarthy Sullivan McCaffrey , Mayo Keegan Boyle Vaughan. You cannot be sucessful without a top class half backs eg Peter Harte Karl Lacey Ger Brennan .
You need half back players who can defend , who can attack and play well nearly every game. Thats what James Mcarthy or lee keegan does. For me the half back line of J McEntee Keoghan Kane is the best half back line we have had in years.
J McEntee moving to wing forward has been sucessful. He is much more involved in the play and has made an impact at 5. He was brillant v Tyrone last year.
Donal keoghan wud walk onto the any team in country. A top class defender , who was wasted at corner back . Centre back has been a problem position since Enda McManus retired. While, I think Keoghan best position is wing back. He is the best centre back we have had since Liam Harnan.
Niall kane was one of best footballers in Meath club football in last 3 years. It was pretty obvious he was a inter county wing back of good standard. He is good at breaking ball. Meath have always had a breaking ball specialist eg Kevin Foley Pat Reynolds jnr. Kane playing this year is the final piece of the jigsaw. McEntee Keoghan and Kane are all good footballers , all good defenders who can all attack well and all play well consistently. That is what is called a modern half back line. Also on the bench we could have experienced players like M Burke S McEntee and P Harnan who could come on and make an impact at half back. Harnan has loads of experience, a proven inter county defender. Another option at half back. Half back line problem seems to be no longer a problem.
And also our whols back line looks solider then it has in a while. Lavin McGill Ryan J McEntee Keoghan Kane are all good defenders. And there is a serious lack of good defenders out there. Blanket defences has killed the art of defending. It has made defenders lazier and disimproved their defensive skills. A defender now knows he has two sweepers to cover him and many defenders now are better at attacking then defending. Dublin have best defenders eg McMahon Sullivan Mcarthy Cooper. While our defence is not at that level. I believe we do have 6 defenders who r natural good defenders. Take a county like kerry who have produced some of greatest defenders ever eg Sean Murphy John O Keefe P O Se T O Se M O Se Moyihan. Kerry dont have one top class defender currently. You need good defenders.
We also have options on the bench for the backs like Shane Gallagher ( who I wud play in full back line ) Shane Glynn M Burke P Harnan S McEntee. We havent had those options on the bench in the back line for a while. But if midfield is been cleaned out it doesnt matter how good ur backs our. Midfield is an issue also.
2 The other area is midfield. It looks like Flanagan and Menton are first choice. I always liked Flanagan. And he in the next few years he should improve further. Midfielders dont peak til their late 20s usually. Menton is an excellent footballer. I think he would make and excellent full back or wing back. That is his best position. But he has turned into an effective midfielder. Flanagan and Menton have formed a decent partnership. They were excellent v Tyrone last year. But what happens if any of them r injured?. There is no clear options. With Gillespie O Rourke Nash Jones all absent for different reasons, we have lost allot of midfielders. Does anyone know about Harry Rooney?. He wud be our best option at center field.
Midfield does depend on kickouts. We were successful in the past winning titles driving the ball out to the centre of midfield. You need a strategy . Something we have lacked forever. Bringing Rodgers a proven inter county coach with Westmeath and Cavan and one best goalkeeper's in the country onto the coaching staff could be a game changer. Before christmas, Rodgers was in the paper talking about the importance of kickout strategies. For me so far in Byrne cup there seems to be a more consistent and effective kickout strategy, that is so important and needs to continue.
3 The real problem area is the inside forward line. In the half forward there are options eg Reilly Sullivan Brennan Campion Forde. But on the inside line instead of depending lenihan we now depend on Newman. Its great to see Newman back. Its just a pity, lenihan is travelling. A lenihan/ Newman duo would be a good partnership inside. Actually a Newman Mckeever Lenihan inside line wud be formidable. All should be reaching their peak age as footballers eg Newman and Mckeever 28 , Lenihan 27. They are the three best inside forwards in Meath club football. But Mckeever seems not an option. And also lenhian is not an option as he is travelling .
Newman needs a partner upfront. My worry is where are the scores from play , where will they come from in the inside line. We have depended on lenihan in the last two years for scores from play in the inside line. Now its Newman. Thomas Reilly is a talented young footballer. I think he has a bright future. But I think is best position is at centre forward. He doesnt score enough from play consistently in the inside line. Brennan Campion Sullivan are more half forwards. We r missing the Wallaces.
Maybe McMahon wud be an option. He is the best natural inside forward we have. He has showns glimpses of brilllance eg Carlow 2014 Westmeath 2015. But not been consistent enough. For me young Conlon cud be the best option. U would worry how he would face against blanket defences like Fermanagh, because he is light. But he is a natural corner forward who can create space in tight areas. For me maybe a Newman Conlon partnership could maybe repeat Newmans partnership with Wallace in 2013 which was the last year, we had a good championship. Newman was nominated for an All star in 2013. Wallace scored 1-4 v Tyrone from play in the championship.
Meath football has always depended on duos on inside line eg Shanley Curran in 60s, O Rourkes Flynn in 80s , Ollie and Geraghty in 90s. We have always had top class forwards. Every generation of Meath forwards were better then Dublin forwards or kikdare forwards in every decade for decades eg 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s 90 and 00s. In this decade for the first time ever Dublin and kildare have better natural inside forwards then us. We dont have a Bernard Brogan or Mannion or Daniel Flynn in the inside line. We have good forwards. Talented. But many of them are light . I have a big concern where are the scores going to come from play in the inside line , scores from open play. We are relying on Newman. But what happens if he is marked well. Thats my worry.
4 Finally we have to start the league well. We are very consitent in the league in recent years. 4 out of the 5 last years we were 1 win away from promotion. We have been contenders and we can be contenders this year. But we always seem to finish the league strongly winning our last 3 or 4 games. We always seem to start slowly. If you lose ur first game u r playing catch up from the start. So victory over Tipp is incredibly important. Here below r league starts for this whole decade. We r slow starters. The best league we had was in 2015 when we lost out to Roscommon on head to head. In that league in 2015 we started really well. Its no coincidence that is the year we got closest to promotion in 2015, was the year we started our first few games really really well, and won our first three games
A Decade of Meath league football in the Early Rounds
2010 League Meath Div 2
1st Game Won v Armagh
2nd Game lost v Down
3rd Game Won v Westmeath
4th Game lost v Tippearey
2011 League Meath Div 2
1st Game Lost v Laois
2nd Game Won v Sligo
3rd Game lost v Antrim
4th Game lost v Donegal
2012 League Meath Div 2
1st Game Won v Monaghan
2nd Game Won v Westmeath
3rd Game lost v kildare
4th Game lost v Galway
5th Game lost v Derry
2013 league Meath Div 3
1st Game Lost v Monaghan
2nd Game Won v Wicklow
3rd Game lost v Cavan
2014 League Meath Div 2
1st Game Won v Galway
2nd Game lost v Monaghan
3rd Game lost v Armagh
2015 league Meath Div 2 ( The best start of any Meath league campaign in this decade)
1st Game Won v Galway
2nd Game Won v kildare
3rd Game Won v Westmeath
2016 league Meath Div 2
1st Game Won v Armagh
2nd Game lost v Fermanagh
3rd Game lost v Cavan
2017 league Meath Div 2
1st Game lost v kildare
2nd Game Won v Derry
3rd Game lost v Down
2018 league Meath Div 2
1st Game Draw v Roscommon
2nd Game Win v Clare
3rd Game lost v Cavan
4th Game lost v Tippearey
We finished strongly in 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 and 2018 leagues. We can wins game back to back in the league in the later roundz. But we are poor starters.
We have started the league badly in first few games in the campaigns of 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2016 2017 2018. The only league campaign really started well was 2015 when we won our first three games. Thats the closest we have to got to promotion to div 1. If the GAA didnt change the rules and did take into scoring difference, not head to head we wud have being promoted , instead of Roscommon.
A good start is essential. If we can win game 3 or 4 games back to back at the end of the league. Why not at the start?. We lost 2 out of our first three games in the league 5 times in this decade in the years 2011 2013 2014 2016 and 2017.
But the most important weekend in league football is week 3. This is when the teams who are going to be promoted break into one group and the others break into relegation fight. Week 3 is a big big week in league football. In week 3 we have lost 7 times out of 9 years in this decade. We lost game 3 in the years 2011 2012 2013 2014 2016 2017 and 2018. The last year we won game 3 was 2015, the closest we got to promotion.
5 So we need to beat Tipp but we need also to beat Armagh in week 3. A good start and we have a great chance of promotion. Donegal in Ballybofey in week 2 is on paper the toughest game on paper. But we are capable of really testing Donegal and go for toe to toe with them for 70 mins and then lose to Armgh , Clare and Fermanagh. Meath v Donegal are always close games. We do up our game v the top teams eg Donegal Roscommon in 2017 , Roscommon Tyrone in 2018 and Dublin twice in the last month. Our problem is v div 2 or div 3 teams eg Tippearey Cavan Longford. If we can be more consistent v div 2 or div 3 teams this will be massive.
6 So finally I am quitely confident we can get promoted this year. I didnt feel we would get promoted last year or in 2017 or 2016 or 2015. The last time I was confident was in 2014 after our good showing v Tyrone and Dublin in 2013. But for the first time in 6 years I think we have chance.
Why? 4 of the games are in Navan. There are only 3 Ulster teams ( sometimes div 2 has been a mini Ulster championship). There is only 1 local.derby v kildare. local derbys v louth Cavan and kildare have cost us in div 2. But why I think we might go up is this McEntees third year. The pressure is on. While I think McEntee needs another year or two to improve things. This cud be his last year. Also he is slowly building a new team each year with new players. And allot of our players are reaching their mid 20s so they should be starting to peak as footballers and their physical conditioning should be improving. Nally also seems to be having a an influence with a more attacking style in Byrne cup. And the new rules of three pasess and kick cud suit our players better then the possession game. So I think we will cud get promted. It just feeling in my gut , a feeling in water. I always felt when allot of our players reached their mid 20s eg McGill McEntee Lavin Sullivan Brennan they would be pushing for promotion. I know there is allot of evidence to say we wouldnt. But I cud be wrong. Its a gut feeling, more then anything.
Remeber there is nearly always a surprise team who gets promoted. Last year no one expected Cavan to get promoted. In 2017 no one was tipping kildare for promotion. In 2015 no one was expecting Roscommon to be promoted. No one expected Cavan in 2016 to be promoted. And no was tipping Monaghan to be promoted in 2014 from div 2. No one predicted Westmeath would be promoted in 2013 to div 1. No one predicted laois would win promotion to div 1 in 2011. And no one predicted Down would be promoted in 2010 to div 1. So in the last decade , in the last 9 years in div 2 in 8 those 9 years we have had teams that were promoted that was a surprise at the time eg Cavan in 2018 kildare in 2017 Cavan in 2016 and Roscommon in 2015 Monaghan in 2014 Westmeath in 2013 Laois in 2012 and Down in 2010. Who will be the surprise package in 2019 ?. Cud it be Tippearey or Armagh or Rory Gallaghers Fermanangh or what about the team who has been so close in recent years eg Meath. Div 2 is very unpredictable and there will be many surprise results.
And the other thread is a team wins there first 5 or so matchs in a row and are promoted with a round or two to go. Kildare in 2017 Tyrone in 2016 Donegal in 2014 are all teams which won there first few games and where promoted with a round or two to go. A strong start is essential for sucess in div 2.
7 Promotion to div 1 would be transformational for Meath football. Year after year in div 2 has sucked the life and soul out of Meath football. It is very hard to predict as we are so inconsistent. We could beat Donegal and then lose to Clare and Fermanagh. We are so bloody inconsistent. But if we just start the league strongly like we usually end the league, we will definitely be in contention. I just have gut feeling we might just do it this year. But sure its the hope that kills ye.
PS Any news on Harry Rooney. Is he not on the panel this year. Any news on Alan Forde. Forde would be a great addition. He offers a workrate and attacking and defensive qualities on the 40." A great insight Furlong.
You have really hit the nail on the head with regards to the half back line and it's something Andy has transformed.
With regards to midfield, I always thought fitness was an issue for Rooney. I seen him against Joe Sheridan a few years ago and he ran out of steam after about 20 minutes and made Sheridan look like he was back to his best. In saying that he could do a job for winning ball in the middle with about 20 minutes to go but he's not a starter in my book. Do you think Ethan Devine could be an option?
The biggest problem I have had with our forwards for the last 5 years is consistency, I can't remember any of them having a stand out year nor being nominated for an all star. Look at the forwards we had back in 10/11 compared to the last couple of years
Queeney, Sheridan, Kenny
Ward, S O Rourke, Bray
Reilly, Brennan, O Sullivan
McMahon, Newman, Lenihan
They might be fitter and faster now but the guys back in 10/11 had bite about them and were much better footballers.
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 126 - 15/01/2019 10:39:50
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From what I've seen in the O'Byrne Cup and a few challenge games over the past 6-8 weeks this is something along the lines of what I think we'll see against Tipp.
Dardis
Lavin
McGill
Ryan
J McEntee
Keogan
Kane
Menton
Flanagan
Devine
Campion
Brennan
Reilly
Newman
O'Reilly
jackhackett (Meath) - Posts: 765 - 15/01/2019 10:56:38
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Replying To UsernameInvalid: "A great insight Furlong.
You have really hit the nail on the head with regards to the half back line and it's something Andy has transformed.
With regards to midfield, I always thought fitness was an issue for Rooney. I seen him against Joe Sheridan a few years ago and he ran out of steam after about 20 minutes and made Sheridan look like he was back to his best. In saying that he could do a job for winning ball in the middle with about 20 minutes to go but he's not a starter in my book. Do you think Ethan Devine could be an option?
The biggest problem I have had with our forwards for the last 5 years is consistency, I can't remember any of them having a stand out year nor being nominated for an all star. Look at the forwards we had back in 10/11 compared to the last couple of years
Queeney, Sheridan, Kenny
Ward, S O Rourke, Bray
Reilly, Brennan, O Sullivan
McMahon, Newman, Lenihan
They might be fitter and faster now but the guys back in 10/11 had bite about them and were much better footballers." And people criticized the forwards we had then just as much as they do now! What we would give for the likes of Farrell, Ward, Brays, Joe Sheridan, O'Rourke and Seamus Kenny now. If that Meath team between 2007 - 2012 had one manager (preferably Andy McEntee at the time) for those entire 5 years and a proper S&C program I definitely think they would have won more Leinsters and reached an All Ireland Final.
BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 565 - 15/01/2019 11:59:01
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Replying To UsernameInvalid: "A great insight Furlong.
You have really hit the nail on the head with regards to the half back line and it's something Andy has transformed.
With regards to midfield, I always thought fitness was an issue for Rooney. I seen him against Joe Sheridan a few years ago and he ran out of steam after about 20 minutes and made Sheridan look like he was back to his best. In saying that he could do a job for winning ball in the middle with about 20 minutes to go but he's not a starter in my book. Do you think Ethan Devine could be an option?
The biggest problem I have had with our forwards for the last 5 years is consistency, I can't remember any of them having a stand out year nor being nominated for an all star. Look at the forwards we had back in 10/11 compared to the last couple of years
Queeney, Sheridan, Kenny
Ward, S O Rourke, Bray
Reilly, Brennan, O Sullivan
McMahon, Newman, Lenihan
They might be fitter and faster now but the guys back in 10/11 had bite about them and were much better footballers." Thanks for the comments Usernameinvalid.
The half back line has been an issue for Meath football for years. So I do see an improvement in that area this year. Yes Devine is talented. And Devine and his clubmate Walsh are very good prospects. But it can take years for a midfielder to learn his inter county trade. You get the odd brillant midfielder who is brilllant from year 1 eg Brian Fenton Sean Cavanagh Jack O Se Brian Mullins Gerry McEntee. The rest take years to develop. It took our greatest midfielder John McDermont 6 years before he really established himself on the Meath team. Thats why I thinkRooney is an option he is 25 26. He should be coming into his peak as an midfielder. Even if he didnt start. If we had Ronan Jones and Harry Rooney on the panel we wud have options.
Currently we have no plan b after Flanagan and Menton, that is worrying. Yes Rooney lacks pace but his last year he played in 2015 I do think there was signs he had potential particularly in Bynre cup semi final v Dublin when he almost single-handed brought a Meath team to rein in a 9 point lead.
Regards forwards inside I have concerns also. U r right. We had serious forward talent between 07 and 11. Good enough to win Sam. The problem was that we had 5 managers in 6 years and that really halted the growth of that team. But we had after kerry and Tyrone, the best forwards in the country at the time and we had better forwards then Dublin or kildare. Thats why we reached 2 All Ireland semi finals and defeated in the championship Mayo Galway the greatest Tyrone team ever and hammered a team that wud soon become Dublins greatest team ever.
Look at the forwards we had play between 09 and 11 eg Stephen Bray Graham Geraghty Graham Reilly Joe Sheridan Brian Farrell Cian Ward David Bray Shane O Rourke Seamus Kenny Peadar Byrne James Queeny.
Dublin and kildare have better forwards then we have now. Which has never happened before. We always for generations had better forwards then kildare or Dublin. We dont have bad forwards. We have good forwards. But we dont really have top class ones. And my worry is where are the scores going to come from play on the inside line if Newman is marked out of the game.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 15/01/2019 12:27:59
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Replying To BigJoe14: "And people criticized the forwards we had then just as much as they do now! What we would give for the likes of Farrell, Ward, Brays, Joe Sheridan, O'Rourke and Seamus Kenny now. If that Meath team between 2007 - 2012 had one manager (preferably Andy McEntee at the time) for those entire 5 years and a proper S&C program I definitely think they would have won more Leinsters and reached an All Ireland Final." I remember when Farrell, Ward and Sheridan left, everyone was saying how youth will step up and take their place. It never happened we are 5/6 years on and the talent hasn't come through. We went with small light forwards with pace such as the Wallaces and McMahon who were hardly tested at club level never mind senior inter county.
I think 2010 was our year, if we showed up in the Leinster final then we wouldn't have had the fiasco which I think affected a lot of the players.
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 126 - 15/01/2019 12:53:00
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Replying To Furlong1949: "Thanks for the comments Usernameinvalid.
The half back line has been an issue for Meath football for years. So I do see an improvement in that area this year. Yes Devine is talented. And Devine and his clubmate Walsh are very good prospects. But it can take years for a midfielder to learn his inter county trade. You get the odd brillant midfielder who is brilllant from year 1 eg Brian Fenton Sean Cavanagh Jack O Se Brian Mullins Gerry McEntee. The rest take years to develop. It took our greatest midfielder John McDermont 6 years before he really established himself on the Meath team. Thats why I thinkRooney is an option he is 25 26. He should be coming into his peak as an midfielder. Even if he didnt start. If we had Ronan Jones and Harry Rooney on the panel we wud have options.
Currently we have no plan b after Flanagan and Menton, that is worrying. Yes Rooney lacks pace but his last year he played in 2015 I do think there was signs he had potential particularly in Bynre cup semi final v Dublin when he almost single-handed brought a Meath team to rein in a 9 point lead.
Regards forwards inside I have concerns also. U r right. We had serious forward talent between 07 and 11. Good enough to win Sam. The problem was that we had 5 managers in 6 years and that really halted the growth of that team. But we had after kerry and Tyrone, the best forwards in the country at the time and we had better forwards then Dublin or kildare. Thats why we reached 2 All Ireland semi finals and defeated in the championship Mayo Galway the greatest Tyrone team ever and hammered a team that wud soon become Dublins greatest team ever.
Look at the forwards we had play between 09 and 11 eg Stephen Bray Graham Geraghty Graham Reilly Joe Sheridan Brian Farrell Cian Ward David Bray Shane O Rourke Seamus Kenny Peadar Byrne James Queeny.
Dublin and kildare have better forwards then we have now. Which has never happened before. We always for generations had better forwards then kildare or Dublin. We dont have bad forwards. We have good forwards. But we dont really have top class ones. And my worry is where are the scores going to come from play on the inside line if Newman is marked out of the game." I agree our forward crop isn't good but it isn't helped by the forwards who left the panel for whatever reason. Lenihan, O'Coilean, McKeever, Wallace x2. Silver lining our under 20's look to have a great crop of forwards. Costello, Connell Ahern, Mitchell, Morris, Walsh, Frayne, O'Fionnagan, Finnegan, Cian Rodgers. If 2 or 3 of them can be good quality inter county forwards we could be on a winner as I'm starting to like the look of our defence.
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 833 - 15/01/2019 14:51:26
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