Meath Forum

Joe McDonagh Cup 2018

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Sometimes you would have to wonder about bringing in outsiders with no intercounty experience:

From the report here

"Meath selector and former Kilkenny great Michael Kavanagh said the Royals backroom team was happy with the team's spirit and attitude.

"Carlow are a well experienced side - they had more ball winners and finishers. We did well to stay with Carlow for so long and it could have gone either way," he said.

Reflecting on the fact that Meath have lost all three McDonagh Cup games, the Kilkenny man added: "Coming out of the Christy Ring Cup is a big step.""

He does know that it was Carlow in the Christy Ring last year and not Meath doesn't he?

hurlingroyals (Meath) - Posts: 45 - 21/05/2018 14:57:06    2102676

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Was in Carlow last Saturday , a better performance but once again we died

How are we going to get a win in the Joe McDonagh cup ?
Kerry and Laoise left at home ,
will we win one of these games ?
If we dont we are relegated and if we win one we might get 5th spot which means we play Christ ring cup winners in a play off.

What have the two Kilkenny coaches done ?
have they improved the team or players in any way ?
I am not convinced
One of them jumps up and down on the line like a lunatic and the other can not be seen at all

The fitness of the team is also an issue as far as I am concerned, who is doing the fitness training ?

Next season if the same management team are in place they should bring back the lad that Ennis had the boxing lad he had the team in super shape while he was he was doing the training, Remember how fit they were last year and the year before when they won the christy ring , they ran antrim team off the pitch the two days on the biggest pitch in Ireland.
Can the county board keep the management team for another year if we get relegated .

gardentree (Meath) - Posts: 194 - 21/05/2018 15:12:51    2102681

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Replying To hurlingroyals:  "Sometimes you would have to wonder about bringing in outsiders with no intercounty experience:

From the report here

"Meath selector and former Kilkenny great Michael Kavanagh said the Royals backroom team was happy with the team's spirit and attitude.

"Carlow are a well experienced side - they had more ball winners and finishers. We did well to stay with Carlow for so long and it could have gone either way," he said.

Reflecting on the fact that Meath have lost all three McDonagh Cup games, the Kilkenny man added: "Coming out of the Christy Ring Cup is a big step.""

He does know that it was Carlow in the Christy Ring last year and not Meath doesn't he?"
I very much doubt that he know that Carlow won the Christy Ring cup last year and i am sure he does not know that Meath Won it in 2016. I believe he was with Wicklow a few years ago and if I am correct they got relegated in the League that year. Good players do not automatically become good coaches .

gardentree (Meath) - Posts: 194 - 21/05/2018 15:29:31    2102689

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Replying To gardentree:  "
Replying To hurlingroyals:  "Sometimes you would have to wonder about bringing in outsiders with no intercounty experience:

From the report here

"Meath selector and former Kilkenny great Michael Kavanagh said the Royals backroom team was happy with the team's spirit and attitude.

"Carlow are a well experienced side - they had more ball winners and finishers. We did well to stay with Carlow for so long and it could have gone either way," he said.

Reflecting on the fact that Meath have lost all three McDonagh Cup games, the Kilkenny man added: "Coming out of the Christy Ring Cup is a big step.""

He does know that it was Carlow in the Christy Ring last year and not Meath doesn't he?"
I very much doubt that he know that Carlow won the Christy Ring cup last year and i am sure he does not know that Meath Won it in 2016. I believe he was with Wicklow a few years ago and if I am correct they got relegated in the League that year. Good players do not automatically become good coaches ."
I completely agree that good players may not become good coaches. To me with the good players the skills came so easily to them they simply cannot understand average but ambitious players struggling to master a particular skill that they simply regard them as beyond help.

Away back in 2002 I think it was that a certain Michael Duignan came to "those shores" and guess what we beat Laois in the Leinster Championship and gave his native Offaly a rare scare on a Saturday evening in Navan in the qualifiers. Progress we were amaking so guess what next year our governing body Meath Co Board decided that this fellow had got too big for his boots and he would have to be taught a lesson so they fixed club championship games in the week prior to the County team's Leinster Championship game. Objective achieved Michael Duignan resigned and Westmeath, Carlow and Kerry whissed past us and only in the past two years have we regained any sort of standing as a mid ranking hurling county.

So folks don't be tooo sharpee (o & e for emphasis) to criticize when we are ALLOWED outsiders in to help.

Meath's greatest performance since 1954 in the Leinster Hurling Championship was in 1996 when we we scared the shit out of Offaly in Croke Park. No outside manager...just John Davis doing the simple things well...and he did the same thing with the Camogie girls over the past few years. Sorry to say but in 1996 the self destruct button was pressed from within the actual team itself an JD was forced to walk away.....did things get better? 4-28 (40) to 0-08 (8) a few years later v Offaly told its own tale so folks festene lente (proceed slowly), trouble is does that advice apply to this year or last year? We may have been too hasty in letting Martin Ennis go but hanging on every word Michael Kavanagh says now might not be wise now either, 15 years ago the chances of getting two hurling people from outside were very slim indeed. I am sure Michael Kavanagh has learned something in the past few months too.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 742 - 22/05/2018 20:45:31    2103113

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john davis is a westmeath man.

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 532 - 22/05/2018 21:54:31    2103135

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Replying To dickie10:  "john davis is a westmeath man."
Granted but he was living in Dunshaughlin at the time and had trained a number of Meath clubs beforehand. What I meant was that there was no major travel involved.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 742 - 23/05/2018 10:17:38    2103202

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Replying To MillerX:  "Granted but he was living in Dunshaughlin at the time and had trained a number of Meath clubs beforehand. What I meant was that there was no major travel involved."
John Davis was an Outside manager he was from Brownstown County Westmeath. To my limited knowledge since the turn of the century , in the last eighteen years only three Meath men managed the county hurlers. T.J. Reilly from Boardsmill, John Andrews from Trim and Martin Ennis from Athboy. Other outside managers in that time w John Hunt,Michael Duignan,Cillian Farrell and Nick Fitzgerald,

What have the new coaches brought to the table, what have they improved ?
Yer man from Antrim that Ennis had seemed to bring some decent tactics , and that fitness guy had the lads really really fit.

gardentree (Meath) - Posts: 194 - 24/05/2018 16:06:50    2103598

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Replying To gardentree:  "John Davis was an Outside manager he was from Brownstown County Westmeath. To my limited knowledge since the turn of the century , in the last eighteen years only three Meath men managed the county hurlers. T.J. Reilly from Boardsmill, John Andrews from Trim and Martin Ennis from Athboy. Other outside managers in that time w John Hunt,Michael Duignan,Cillian Farrell and Nick Fitzgerald,

What have the new coaches brought to the table, what have they improved ?
Yer man from Antrim that Ennis had seemed to bring some decent tactics , and that fitness guy had the lads really really fit."
I think ya need to get the fitness guy back. He was top drawer. Anyone know his name?

In_da_ditch (UK) - Posts: 165 - 02/06/2018 22:39:44    2106605

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Replying To MillerX:  "
Replying To gardentree:  "[quote=hurlingroyals:  "Sometimes you would have to wonder about bringing in outsiders with no intercounty experience:

From the report here

"Meath selector and former Kilkenny great Michael Kavanagh said the Royals backroom team was happy with the team's spirit and attitude.

"Carlow are a well experienced side - they had more ball winners and finishers. We did well to stay with Carlow for so long and it could have gone either way," he said.

Reflecting on the fact that Meath have lost all three McDonagh Cup games, the Kilkenny man added: "Coming out of the Christy Ring Cup is a big step.""

He does know that it was Carlow in the Christy Ring last year and not Meath doesn't he?"
I very much doubt that he know that Carlow won the Christy Ring cup last year and i am sure he does not know that Meath Won it in 2016. I believe he was with Wicklow a few years ago and if I am correct they got relegated in the League that year. Good players do not automatically become good coaches ."
I completely agree that good players may not become good coaches. To me with the good players the skills came so easily to them they simply cannot understand average but ambitious players struggling to master a particular skill that they simply regard them as beyond help.

Away back in 2002 I think it was that a certain Michael Duignan came to "those shores" and guess what we beat Laois in the Leinster Championship and gave his native Offaly a rare scare on a Saturday evening in Navan in the qualifiers. Progress we were amaking so guess what next year our governing body Meath Co Board decided that this fellow had got too big for his boots and he would have to be taught a lesson so they fixed club championship games in the week prior to the County team's Leinster Championship game. Objective achieved Michael Duignan resigned and Westmeath, Carlow and Kerry whissed past us and only in the past two years have we regained any sort of standing as a mid ranking hurling county.

So folks don't be tooo sharpee (o & e for emphasis) to criticize when we are ALLOWED outsiders in to help.

Meath's greatest performance since 1954 in the Leinster Hurling Championship was in 1996 when we we scared the shit out of Offaly in Croke Park. No outside manager...just John Davis doing the simple things well...and he did the same thing with the Camogie girls over the past few years. Sorry to say but in 1996 the self destruct button was pressed from within the actual team itself an JD was forced to walk away.....did things get better? 4-28 (40) to 0-08 (8) a few years later v Offaly told its own tale so folks festene lente (proceed slowly), trouble is does that advice apply to this year or last year? We may have been too hasty in letting Martin Ennis go but hanging on every word Michael Kavanagh says now might not be wise now either, 15 years ago the chances of getting two hurling people from outside were very slim indeed. I am sure Michael Kavanagh has learned something in the past few months too."]V good post...I remember the crisis in 2003...meath did look promising that time but the strike finished your year....as you say its only in the last 2 years you looked to be coming out of it...as regards kavangh and comerford I dont think they respect you enough to be over you...they seem to doubt the teams abilities

preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 497 - 04/06/2018 14:42:30    2107300

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Replying To In_da_ditch:  "I think ya need to get the fitness guy back. He was top drawer. Anyone know his name?"
meath were the fitter team on saturday. they had 14 men for most of game and still were finishing strong. there is a lot of negativity on this forum but i think they deserve some credit for saturdays performance.

overthehill72 (Meath) - Posts: 334 - 05/06/2018 13:44:48    2107679

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I was reading club match reports from last saturday evening and sunday's matches. Looks like some of the Meath Hurling played with their clubs. Sean Quigley and Michael O'Grady played for Dunboyne, Jack Regan and P Kelly played for kiltale, Paul Fagan played for Kildalkey, Joey Keena, Kevin Keena and Shane Brennan all played with Kilmessan that's eight players from the squad that I know played with their clubs last weekend. I looked at the Ratoath and Trim reports and none of their county players played with them,looking at the Kildalkey report they did not play either of the Coneely's.
So what's going on ?
Did the management team let the lads play for their clubs or did some of the lads just say **** it we are playing for our clubs.
Am I incorrect in saying that next saturday's match v Laois is the most important game meath hurlers have played this year ?
if they win they are not automatically relegated , Laois go down and Meath play the Christy Ring winners for the right to stay in the Joe McDonagh cup next season.
If the management let some players play with their clubs this it totally unfair to the rest of the clubs.
If the players that played for their clubs and did not have permission from the management then what do the Management do for next saturday.
Are the players doing what they like ?
looks like it ,
any views on this ?

gardentree (Meath) - Posts: 194 - 05/06/2018 14:56:42    2107722

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Replying To gardentree:  "I was reading club match reports from last saturday evening and sunday's matches. Looks like some of the Meath Hurling played with their clubs. Sean Quigley and Michael O'Grady played for Dunboyne, Jack Regan and P Kelly played for kiltale, Paul Fagan played for Kildalkey, Joey Keena, Kevin Keena and Shane Brennan all played with Kilmessan that's eight players from the squad that I know played with their clubs last weekend. I looked at the Ratoath and Trim reports and none of their county players played with them,looking at the Kildalkey report they did not play either of the Coneely's.
So what's going on ?
Did the management team let the lads play for their clubs or did some of the lads just say **** it we are playing for our clubs.
Am I incorrect in saying that next saturday's match v Laois is the most important game meath hurlers have played this year ?
if they win they are not automatically relegated , Laois go down and Meath play the Christy Ring winners for the right to stay in the Joe McDonagh cup next season.
If the management let some players play with their clubs this it totally unfair to the rest of the clubs.
If the players that played for their clubs and did not have permission from the management then what do the Management do for next saturday.
Are the players doing what they like ?
looks like it ,
any views on this ?"
I think a few of the players you've mentioned have withdrawn from the panel. And others only played a few minutes v Kerry. J Keena played in goals and Brennan came on so kilmessan obviously stuck for numbers, fair play to them for helping out their club.

I can understand players togging for their clubs. Regardless of the result this weekend the season is over for Meath hurlers and has been for some time (I'm aware we can still stay up if we win, but no chance of silverware). The year is only getting going now on the club hurling scene and I'd imagine it's important for county players that their club are still in contention on as many fronts as possible when the county fixtures are concluded.

The Dunboyne lads playing with their club helped them to victory and ensured they are still in contention in the league which I think is commendable.

begining (UK) - Posts: 277 - 05/06/2018 16:27:37    2107756

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Replying To begining:  "I think a few of the players you've mentioned have withdrawn from the panel. And others only played a few minutes v Kerry. J Keena played in goals and Brennan came on so kilmessan obviously stuck for numbers, fair play to them for helping out their club.

I can understand players togging for their clubs. Regardless of the result this weekend the season is over for Meath hurlers and has been for some time (I'm aware we can still stay up if we win, but no chance of silverware). The year is only getting going now on the club hurling scene and I'd imagine it's important for county players that their club are still in contention on as many fronts as possible when the county fixtures are concluded.

The Dunboyne lads playing with their club helped them to victory and ensured they are still in contention in the league which I think is commendable."
Do you mean to say some of the players have withdrawn from the panel since Saturday?!

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1391 - 05/06/2018 17:37:23    2107790

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "Do you mean to say some of the players have withdrawn from the panel since Saturday?!"
k Keena and p kelly have withdrawn from the panel as far as i know. Neither were togged Saturday.

begining (UK) - Posts: 277 - 06/06/2018 08:27:00    2107934

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Replying To overthehill72:  "meath were the fitter team on saturday. they had 14 men for most of game and still were finishing strong. there is a lot of negativity on this forum but i think they deserve some credit for saturdays performance."
Agree 100%. Tried full out for the entire game and any day you hit the crossbar with a rasper near the end of the game and loose by two points you have to be considered unlucky.

This brings to next Saturday with a lot to play for so let's get there early on and give the lads all the encouragement we can muster. All the team said that it was the tremendous support in Croke Park that got them over the line in the Christy Ring final, so let's have a repeat on Saturday.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 742 - 06/06/2018 11:50:28    2107999

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Management did not stop players from playing with their clubs. Trim had the numbers to cover the county players as did kildalky.

Agree in relation to the negativity and there is too much going on in the forum. although there is still an issue with positons not suiting the players selected but this is not surprising. We have just brought in an "all star" team and if they did not change martins set up I would be sure people would be giving out about that too.

.In relation to the Kerry game, with 15 men it would more than likely been the result we all wanted but these things happen. Douglas was unlucky but he should have learned at this point that most teams at club and county will identify him as a key player and he just needs to be more savvy in future.

Laois are cruising and may stick out a weakened team, so don't write us off just yet. I think Jack regan has a lot more to offer than what he is currently giving and was not surprised when he did not start. buckets of talent but needs to do a lot more dog work in open play.

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 476 - 06/06/2018 13:01:26    2108042

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Replying To Irish_downunder:  "Management did not stop players from playing with their clubs. Trim had the numbers to cover the county players as did kildalky.

Agree in relation to the negativity and there is too much going on in the forum. although there is still an issue with positons not suiting the players selected but this is not surprising. We have just brought in an "all star" team and if they did not change martins set up I would be sure people would be giving out about that too.

.In relation to the Kerry game, with 15 men it would more than likely been the result we all wanted but these things happen. Douglas was unlucky but he should have learned at this point that most teams at club and county will identify him as a key player and he just needs to be more savvy in future.

Laois are cruising and may stick out a weakened team, so don't write us off just yet. I think Jack regan has a lot more to offer than what he is currently giving and was not surprised when he did not start. buckets of talent but needs to do a lot more dog work in open play."
Laois are cruising and may stick out a weakened team?! What competition have you been looking at?

Laois are having their worst season in years and are fighting for survival! Why would they stick out a weakened team in what is effectively a relegation playoff?

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1391 - 06/06/2018 14:59:56    2108095

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Replying To gardentree:  "I was reading club match reports from last saturday evening and sunday's matches. Looks like some of the Meath Hurling played with their clubs. Sean Quigley and Michael O'Grady played for Dunboyne, Jack Regan and P Kelly played for kiltale, Paul Fagan played for Kildalkey, Joey Keena, Kevin Keena and Shane Brennan all played with Kilmessan that's eight players from the squad that I know played with their clubs last weekend. I looked at the Ratoath and Trim reports and none of their county players played with them,looking at the Kildalkey report they did not play either of the Coneely's.
So what's going on ?
Did the management team let the lads play for their clubs or did some of the lads just say **** it we are playing for our clubs.
Am I incorrect in saying that next saturday's match v Laois is the most important game meath hurlers have played this year ?
if they win they are not automatically relegated , Laois go down and Meath play the Christy Ring winners for the right to stay in the Joe McDonagh cup next season.
If the management let some players play with their clubs this it totally unfair to the rest of the clubs.
If the players that played for their clubs and did not have permission from the management then what do the Management do for next saturday.
Are the players doing what they like ?
looks like it ,
any views on this ?"
There is so many complaints in the one message I think that's a new record. Who cares what happened last week. Last week is over. This is the week that matters. Let's get behind the lads & pray its not a tanking like it was last year, though they did look fitter last year!

In_da_ditch (UK) - Posts: 165 - 08/06/2018 13:31:58    2108680

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Absolutely terrible season! What was the last game we actually won? The Kilkenny experiment has not worked & the manager is way out of his depth. Needs to go & work with a few club teams to learn what he is doing. Players are the same as what previous manager had but the performances are just polar opppsires. I've got used to watching Meath have a go the last few years, now they haven't a clue. On a positive note great to see tougher back, awful to see him carried off at the end. What a warrior that man is for Meath hurling!

In_da_ditch (UK) - Posts: 165 - 10/06/2018 00:08:42    2109210

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Replying To In_da_ditch:  "Absolutely terrible season! What was the last game we actually won? The Kilkenny experiment has not worked & the manager is way out of his depth. Needs to go & work with a few club teams to learn what he is doing. Players are the same as what previous manager had but the performances are just polar opppsires. I've got used to watching Meath have a go the last few years, now they haven't a clue. On a positive note great to see tougher back, awful to see him carried off at the end. What a warrior that man is for Meath hurling!"
Last game won was NHL v London also wins over Kildare in League and a win over Antrim in Walsh Cup in Dec 2017, it was the first round of the 2018 competition. True team has not progressed. Failed to the same teams in the League and Joe McDonagh Cup. In the JMcD the other teams were capable of taking points off each other whereas we were simply cannon fodder. Last year technically we finished in joint second place in the four team group loosing out on score difference. Also the teams that were 'below' us last year, namely Carlow and Antrim have now leapfrogged us. Not good, so the Kilkenny experiment has to be deemed a failure, our first touch has regressed and that was something I thought the Kilkenny men would have worked on.

One thing that must be improved on is making a simple catch, yesterday I seen players 'killing the ball' on the stick rather than just grabbing a perfectly delivered handpass, vital milliseconds are being lost by this type of nonsense. It is fine to kill a ball on the stick if the pass is wayward of out of reach of the catching hand but not when delivered perfectly.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 742 - 10/06/2018 13:15:21    2109367

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