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Come on Dunner, never!!!!! It is too loong of a timme!!!
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 742 - 17/03/2018 19:35:35
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Replying To oldsam_newsam: "There are very few managers that are consistently good throughout their careers. I think Colm O'Rourke has been a very good manager for most of the time he has been a manager but not always. Part of his success is that is is probably very perceptive as to when to take over a team and his reluctance to take on the Meath job is probably a message in itself about the state of the side & prospects.
The managers that have taken on the job of managing Meath at this time must be given he utmost respect and appreciation for taking on the role at such a difficult time as I reckon they are not being paid very much but I could be wrong there. That said it is hard not to criticise whe we see things we are not happy with and I think the Meath team has regressed this season and, for whatever reason, Andy & co. have lost players both from the team and squad that they could ill afford to lose." I think the problem for O Rourke is hes a media man. On the Sunday Game along with Brolly Spillane theres unpopularity that comes from being a pundit. I not explaining that well but I think if he was not on The Sunday Game or writing Sindo his managerial CV would be more praised. When you look at his CV overall it is really good. With exception of year with Meath minors and under 21 when Westmeath with John Heslin blew Meath away. Every job he took on he has in the end been sucessful. With St Pats, International Rules team and Simontown. He has been sucessful at undeage, on the national stage and at club level..The one thing left out is senior intercounty.
I know he took a while to suceed at Simonstown but in the end he got there. And it was simlar as a player. For Meath it took him years and til the end of his career to finally win titles. And playing with the club it took years of losing finals before he finally got his hands on the keegan cup. His club managerial record was the same.
If you pretend O Rourke wasnt on the Sunday Game and look at his CV in an unbiased unpartial way he would be one of the best qualified to manage Meath in the future. I know he is 60 so it would probably have to be soon rather then later.. But I always thought O Rourke was Boylans natural heir as manager . If O Rourke took over Boylan and was manager from 07 to 10 I think O Rourke would have had the stature to have took over Boylan. But there seemed to be every time the job came up it followed a similar pattern of would he or would he not put his name forward and talks with county board which never ened in him getting the job. But overall I still he could be an option in the future.
But Andy has to be given 2 more years at least. No question. Andy is the best qualified manager we ever had and is the most qualified at the moment. He needs to be given time. We could go on a losing streak. Teams go up and down. Maybe this season will end July again. I personally never thought we would get promoted or go beyond July eitheir. I think next year you will see signs of progress and In 2020 2021 real progress can be made. But I think we are a good 12 months to 24 before we upturn.
I think the next few months could be rocky.But we need to the keep the faith with the current setup and I believe they will achieve in the long term. There is a serious pessimism and negativity surrounding Meath football now. It grew from defeats to Dublin in 2014 and Westmeath in 2015. And throughout last year that pessimism has grown. Comments like we are crap, we r useless is so common now. It will take time to turn that defeatist mentality around. We could have more bad results. But remeber Down went on a 15 games losing streak last year. Down have only won 6 times in the last couple of years. Kildare have now lost their last 10 games in a row. I dont see many kildare fans calling for O Neill to go. I know they are in div 1 but they have lost to div 2 Louth and division 3 Armagh and longford. So we need to go steady as you go. It will take years not months to turn around us.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 17/03/2018 20:20:15
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Replying To royaldunne: "Colm orurke?? Are you having a laugh?? That mighty big place mullaghnaghta didn't think much of his big town team. Plus he would have his nephew back too with his positive attitude. Colm orurke? Never never never." Mighty mullaghnaghta didn't even play simonstown in either this years Leinster club championship or last years !! So more of ur false facts royaldunne .
royalwarrior (Meath) - Posts: 32 - 17/03/2018 20:33:20
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Replying To royalwarrior: "Mighty mullaghnaghta didn't even play simonstown in either this years Leinster club championship or last years !! So more of ur false facts royaldunne ." Did I say they played them? I said they don't think much of him? Have you ever been to that tiny town land in Longford? Now compare what they have done in Leinster compared to simonstown. Good lad now run along and try to read something correctly before posting.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 17/03/2018 21:26:54
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1 There is a serious pessimism and negativity surrounding Meath at the moment. You hear comments like we r crap and this is very common. The thread on this forum worst Meath team is an example of that pessimism and negativity thats surrounding the county. That thread worst Meath team should be taken down.
The comments worst Meath team in years. I have heard that so many times in the last few years. When Meath were beaten by Wexford and longford in 1981 1982 , it was said it was the worst Meath team in years when Meath chronicle had an article with the headline Meath football RIP the following week.
That team had Colm O Rourke Mick lyons Gerry McEntee and Joe Cassells. Within a year we were drawing a game v Dublin the soon to be crowned All Ireland champions. The very same comment was said in 1985 when Meath were hammered by laois by 8 points. And that team in 1985 was called by many Meath supporters at the time as the worst Meath team ever and that team had Mick Lyons Gerry McEntee Liam Harnan Colm O Rourke Joe Cassells playing. Within 2 years that team, that some where calling the worst Meath team ever 2 years earlier , was now All Ireland champions. 1995 after Meath were hammered by 10 points by Dublin and again I heard the comments afterwards this team was the worst Meath team ever. A team that included Trevor Giles Graham Geraghty John McDermont Ollie Murphy . You all know what happened next.
So I have heard these comments so many times before. But I do believe in the last few years there's being a growing negativity and pessimism in the county. Permanent division 2 residence, July championship exits, bad defeats to Dublin 2014 Westmeath 2015 Cavan 2016 Kildare 2017 has meant optimism in the county is low. This is a barrier to sucess. I think the players are hearing this pessimism and negativity and its also effecting their play. But only wins and good performances will improve the mood in the county.
The team have potential and the management team is best qualified to take us further. We need patience and time. And we have good players. Players like G Reilly D Keoghan Brian Menton Alan Forde C Sullivan would walk onto the teams of 80s and 90s. Not all the players on the Meath team of the 80s and 90s were all time great. Boylans true genius was being to pick club players from every level even junior that other people might not have. He had a sixth instinct in picking players that would be able to perform in big matchs in Croke Park. He had a couple of truly great players eg 80s O Rourke Lyons O Connell Stafford O Malley and 90s Fay Giles McDermont Geraghty. But moulded others into effective inter county players to take on the Dubs.
G Reilly would have been a better player then PJ Gillic. Gillic was a hard working third man midfielder but Reilly would have had more creativity. Reilly would have walked onto the team of the 80s. Keoghan is a better defender then Cormac Murphy. Brian Menton would be a better wing back then Hank Traynor. While C Sullivan would have had more natural talent and vision then say David Beggy. Beggy offered great youth and pace to the forwards in 80s. And scored some great scores. But he could be a bit hit and miss. And someone like Sullivan would be a more natural forward. I know some wouldn't agree with Beggy. A fine player but not in the league of O Rourke Giles or Stafford. Overall we have good players and performances like v Dublin Tyrone in 2013 Donegal Galway kildare in 2014 Galway Derry Clare 2017 have been some really good performances. But our lack of consitency is killing us.
I think the kildare results had a negative impact on us. I think Andy was shocked. I think he has gone more defensive since. Meath and not 1 manager since early 00s has adapted to new tactics in football eg blanket defence. The way we won Sam 7 times, that football is not fit for purpose. We need to adapt. Andy is steeped in Meath football. And his teams played in this way. I think he is trying to get us to adapt. But I believe an Ulster coach like what Galway drafted in this year is what we should do.
Andy started of by trying to play a more traditional game v kildare with Brian Sheridan as our target man. And also played 15 on 15. kildare came at us like a train. In the next game v Derry we responded very well. But against Down we really tried to play our traditional game with Brian Sheridan at 14. It didnt work. I would still have Brian Sheridan on the panel because he is one of the full forwards in the county. But playing long kicks into forwards all the time does not work with a more possession modern game. Andy said he made a mistake in the Down game. After the Down game we went defensive with men behind the ball. But we attacked with pace with men coming off the shoulder. We kept more players in the attack. It worked .
We were very good in second half v Cork Galway Fermanagh and Clare. And this continued v louth in the summmer. Attacking we scored 27 points and we looked really impressive. 27 points is one of the highest points scored in a championship match. But the warming signs there. At midfield Menton and Jones are two very Atletic players but we lacked traditional high fielding midfielder here. And louth played well at midfield. In the backs we were cut up to easy as we gave away 3 easy goals. kikdare would take advantage of those weaknesses.
Feehily completey dominated midfield and kildare isolated our backs and ran riot. I think Andy was shocked by that game and since has gone more defensive. V Sligo Donegal last year and Carlow longford Roscommon Cavan Tipp Cork this year
. We are bringing more players back. We need to keep more up in the forwards. I think Andy needs to go back to playing more like we did v Galway Clare last year. We need to get the balance right but it could take time 12 months or so. It took Kevin Walsh 4 years to get the balance right
Two players have been a lose eg Harnan and Toibin .We didnt have either v kildare league game and Down last year. Our defence looked really shakey. They came back in the middle of the league and our defence improved. We didnt lose a game in the league when they came back. Toibin is a proven intercounty player. He is versatile. He has played in full back line half back line Midfield and half forward. O Dowd and McEntee both played him corner back mostly. They had to. We needed to replace Burke at 4. Toibin did a good job at 4. Shakey at times but overall good. But he is a wing back by trade . And the problem is wing back likes to attack the ball. So if u play them in the corner they cam be caught ball watching. And thats what happened v kildare last year.
I understand why O Dowd and McEntee played him at 4. But he is a quality wing back. But has rarely played there. His versatility has meant he can play anywhere. However he is not on the panel anymore. We must move on.
Harnan is also a proven defender at intercounty. Still young as he debuted v Wexford in 2013 at 19. I was hoping he would push on a bit in the last few seasons. But overall he is a good natural defender who can only get better and I think he will become a quality half back.
I felt at the start of the year our defence would be shakier without them two. We needed two inter county defenders who could replace them. Good intercounty defenders . In the Byrne Cup and v Rossies and Clare game Lavin looked like he could replace Toibin at 4. He was brillant at the start of the season. Conlon had a very good Byrne cup and start of the league. And he was replacing Harnan. If felt like we had replaced Harnan and Toibin. lavin is a more out and out corner back and Conlon is a very good prospect.
But both have had poor games since the Clare game . We are feeling the lose of Toibin and Harnan now. Maybe Shane Gallagher or Shane Glynn are an option at corner back. Both have been the best man markers in Meath club football recently. While Dan O Neill could be the answer at 5. we need to get our defence sorted. When we do we will make more progress. Also our sweepers and blanket defence need to improve.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 17/03/2018 23:38:20
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Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts- You are posting a lot of stuff which is totally irrelevant and rubbish in the present context -judging by your post you have a lot to learn!!!-no disrespect. Your opinions of good players are with the birds. Now there are a few players on the present team who are as good as some of the players who won AI'S - but not most of the ones you have mention, unfortunately we do not have many outstanding players. For a starters it would be good if we could get the best players playing for the count which unfortunately we do not have. The best of luck to all involved on Sunday.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2189 - 18/03/2018 01:52:54
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Replying To browncows: "Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts- You are posting a lot of stuff which is totally irrelevant and rubbish in the present context -judging by your post you have a lot to learn!!!-no disrespect. Your opinions of good players are with the birds. Now there are a few players on the present team who are as good as some of the players who won AI'S - but not most of the ones you have mention, unfortunately we do not have many outstanding players. For a starters it would be good if we could get the best players playing for the count which unfortunately we do not have. The best of luck to all involved on Sunday." I have been at every Meath championship match and most league matchs from 1983 to the present. Some of the points I made above are factual
That in 1982 when we were defeated by Wexford in 81 and after losing to longford in 82 The Meath Chronicle had a headline Meath football RIP. And a Meath team with players like O Rourke Lyons Cassells McEntee were being called by many as the worst Meath team in years .
After we were hammered by Laois in 85 and Dublin in 95 Boylan had decided pretty much to resign with criticism widespread throughout the county. Only for players to ask him to stay in 85 and 95 he would have left. But comments like the worst Meath team in years was widespread in 85 and 95. Why did I mention that?.Well on this forum there is a thread with title Worst Meath team of years. That thread should be taking down as its disgraceful. But I was trying to show even under Boylans era those comments were made.
I knew by bringing up current players playing on 80s and 90s team would open a can of worms. I should have explained myself better. I have a tendency to write in a long winded way. In scatter gun approach where I talk about 5 or 6 things at 1 go. The message I posted above is a bit messy. All over the place. I apologise for that. But my general points I do still agree with.
Not every player that played under Boylan was an outstanding player or an all star player. The same way not every player we have now is poor. We dont have an outstanding players like O Rourke Giles Fay O Connell currently . But we do have a couple of good young footballers who Sean Boylan would have loved to have worked with. Footballers who under Boylans tutorship and playing with greats like Geraghty or Stafford , they would have grown as players.
Boylans teams like all All Ireland winning teams had 5 or 6 outstandingly players eg Giles lyons O Malley. But he also would have 4 or 5 players who werent all star talented players but did the hard work getting the ball to the more talented players who created and made the scores eg Giles Geraghty . Every All Ireland winning team is made up of a handful of outstanding players and other players who arent as talented. Sometimes we glorify the past when the future drys up. Im not saying we didnt have great players and great teams. But we also had a manager who had a touch of genius who could mould players from junior club level into effective performers v the Dubs in a Croker full house.
We dont have any outstanding players currently but we do have good players. Take Graham Reilly. He is not up there with the greats Stafford or a Tommy Dowd. But I could see him doing well in those teams of 80s and 90s. Where he wasnt double marked and the main focus of the attack and a time in 80s and 90s when there was more room on the 40 for half forwards. There was no sweepers in 80s or 90s. I would be critical of Reillys inconsistency and not performing v the top teams. But overall in this decade outside div 1, the best attacking half forward in div 2 3 or 4 has being G Reilly.
Lets take David Beggy , I know this is not a great example. Because Beggy is a legend and scored the winner in 91. But I have seen Reilly score scores Beggys wouldnt have been able to. Beggy added youth and pace to Meath forwards in 80s.But he had the best midfield partnership of the 80s right behind who dominating midfield. Further back he he had at least 3 of the grreatest defenders ever in Lyons O Connell O Malley. Straight in front of him he had one of the greatest full forward lines of all time. If Graham Reilly had the best midfielder partnership of his generation behind him and the one of the best full forward lines in history in front I believe this would have helped him and he would have had the talent to play with these players and it would have helped him develop further as a footballer .
Sean Boylan would have loved player like Brian Menton . Boylan loved versatile players. Menton can play full back wing back or centre field. If Menton was around in the 80s I could see Boylan using him in the half forward line playing a PJ Gillic type role. Keoghan is a top class defender. I could see him playing corner back or half back on our 90s teams easily.
Sullivan has skill and vision. And I think he has potential. He has vision which many players dont have. And is another player under Boylan would develop further. We must remeber even Meath great took a while to develop into top class footballers. Sullivan is 23 now. At 23 Ollie Murphy and McDermont where still developing and far from the finished article . It took Ollie 5 years on the Meath panel before he became a first 15 regular. He debuted in 95. Was on the bench in 96. And was on and off the team in 97 and 98. He was a substitution in the 98 leinster final. But from 1999 to 2001 became the best corner forward in Ireland. And was unmarkable.
John McDermont took 6 years before he really became a great. He made his debut in 1991. He was a light young midfielder. Over the next few years he developed. But even in the summer of 1996. People where saying Meath had a problems at midfield up to All Ireland semi final v Tyrone. It was not til the end of 96 McDermont became a great. But around the leinster final in 96 the fear was Meath midfield was a weakness area. But over the next few years McDermont became the best midfielder in the country. And was voted on the Meath team of the Millenium at midfield.
Forde I know would be contervesial choice. But I am a big fan. He is a player we have been crying out for years. A modern type wing forward who can link defence with backs. He can win breaking ball and score. Actually think he would make great wing back. Again he is a versatile a type of player Boylan would have liked. I could see Forde playing in the Donal Curtis or Evan kelly role in a 90s team. Forde reminds me of Colm Coyle and thats a very good thing.
I hope that makes more sense. I have a tendency to write long winded. In comparison to the chaps on this board who can write in a short and concise way. I dont seem to be able to do that. I have great respect for any Meath supporter on the site. I know we all want the same thing a sucessful Meath team..And it is very frustrating to see how we play at times and difficult to watch our decline . But hopefully we will upturn soon.
I have been tough at times on Meath supporters but it was never in a malicious way. Always respectful the best supporters in Ireland. We are a great football county and Meath football is so important to so many of us. It gives us our identity and simply put it is one of the most important things in our lifes; our passion for Meath football.
Im going to take a break from the site for a while. Its not really working out. But I will keep following as this site is always worth reading the comments of great Meath supporters.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 18/03/2018 19:59:28
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You'd have to wonder if the squad trained less and all the best players in the county were involved, would we be better off. I'd say there are probably quite a few players on the panel that are stuck in a rut. It should be a challenge, not a chore. I suspect if they trained a little less often (but still worked hard of course), it would refresh the players appetite for the game and they would perform better. And where team selections, tactics and gameplans were more positive. Primarily play to our strengths rather than trying to nullify the opposition (because it ain't working most of the time).
GlasagusOr (Meath) - Posts: 1348 - 18/03/2018 20:54:02
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Replying To GlasagusOr: "You'd have to wonder if the squad trained less and all the best players in the county were involved, would we be better off. I'd say there are probably quite a few players on the panel that are stuck in a rut. It should be a challenge, not a chore. I suspect if they trained a little less often (but still worked hard of course), it would refresh the players appetite for the game and they would perform better. And where team selections, tactics and gameplans were more positive. Primarily play to our strengths rather than trying to nullify the opposition (because it ain't working most of the time)." ALL of what you say above are questions any manager should address. Perhaps things are now narrowing down to management shortcomings. Over to Andy and the powers that be now. As you say it ain't working so remedial action required by Andy now. I imagine the County Board would be anxious to discuss our status and action plans.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 841 - 18/03/2018 21:40:03
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Replying To Furlong1949: "1 There is a serious pessimism and negativity surrounding Meath at the moment. You hear comments like we r crap and this is very common. The thread on this forum worst Meath team is an example of that pessimism and negativity thats surrounding the county. That thread worst Meath team should be taken down.
The comments worst Meath team in years. I have heard that so many times in the last few years. When Meath were beaten by Wexford and longford in 1981 1982 , it was said it was the worst Meath team in years when Meath chronicle had an article with the headline Meath football RIP the following week.
That team had Colm O Rourke Mick lyons Gerry McEntee and Joe Cassells. Within a year we were drawing a game v Dublin the soon to be crowned All Ireland champions. The very same comment was said in 1985 when Meath were hammered by laois by 8 points. And that team in 1985 was called by many Meath supporters at the time as the worst Meath team ever and that team had Mick Lyons Gerry McEntee Liam Harnan Colm O Rourke Joe Cassells playing. Within 2 years that team, that some where calling the worst Meath team ever 2 years earlier , was now All Ireland champions. 1995 after Meath were hammered by 10 points by Dublin and again I heard the comments afterwards this team was the worst Meath team ever. A team that included Trevor Giles Graham Geraghty John McDermont Ollie Murphy . You all know what happened next.
So I have heard these comments so many times before. But I do believe in the last few years there's being a growing negativity and pessimism in the county. Permanent division 2 residence, July championship exits, bad defeats to Dublin 2014 Westmeath 2015 Cavan 2016 Kildare 2017 has meant optimism in the county is low. This is a barrier to sucess. I think the players are hearing this pessimism and negativity and its also effecting their play. But only wins and good performances will improve the mood in the county.
The team have potential and the management team is best qualified to take us further. We need patience and time. And we have good players. Players like G Reilly D Keoghan Brian Menton Alan Forde C Sullivan would walk onto the teams of 80s and 90s. Not all the players on the Meath team of the 80s and 90s were all time great. Boylans true genius was being to pick club players from every level even junior that other people might not have. He had a sixth instinct in picking players that would be able to perform in big matchs in Croke Park. He had a couple of truly great players eg 80s O Rourke Lyons O Connell Stafford O Malley and 90s Fay Giles McDermont Geraghty. But moulded others into effective inter county players to take on the Dubs.
G Reilly would have been a better player then PJ Gillic. Gillic was a hard working third man midfielder but Reilly would have had more creativity. Reilly would have walked onto the team of the 80s. Keoghan is a better defender then Cormac Murphy. Brian Menton would be a better wing back then Hank Traynor. While C Sullivan would have had more natural talent and vision then say David Beggy. Beggy offered great youth and pace to the forwards in 80s. And scored some great scores. But he could be a bit hit and miss. And someone like Sullivan would be a more natural forward. I know some wouldn't agree with Beggy. A fine player but not in the league of O Rourke Giles or Stafford. Overall we have good players and performances like v Dublin Tyrone in 2013 Donegal Galway kildare in 2014 Galway Derry Clare 2017 have been some really good performances. But our lack of consitency is killing us.
I think the kildare results had a negative impact on us. I think Andy was shocked. I think he has gone more defensive since. Meath and not 1 manager since early 00s has adapted to new tactics in football eg blanket defence. The way we won Sam 7 times, that football is not fit for purpose. We need to adapt. Andy is steeped in Meath football. And his teams played in this way. I think he is trying to get us to adapt. But I believe an Ulster coach like what Galway drafted in this year is what we should do.
Andy started of by trying to play a more traditional game v kildare with Brian Sheridan as our target man. And also played 15 on 15. kildare came at us like a train. In the next game v Derry we responded very well. But against Down we really tried to play our traditional game with Brian Sheridan at 14. It didnt work. I would still have Brian Sheridan on the panel because he is one of the full forwards in the county. But playing long kicks into forwards all the time does not work with a more possession modern game. Andy said he made a mistake in the Down game. After the Down game we went defensive with men behind the ball. But we attacked with pace with men coming off the shoulder. We kept more players in the attack. It worked .
We were very good in second half v Cork Galway Fermanagh and Clare. And this continued v louth in the summmer. Attacking we scored 27 points and we looked really impressive. 27 points is one of the highest points scored in a championship match. But the warming signs there. At midfield Menton and Jones are two very Atletic players but we lacked traditional high fielding midfielder here. And louth played well at midfield. In the backs we were cut up to easy as we gave away 3 easy goals. kikdare would take advantage of those weaknesses.
Feehily completey dominated midfield and kildare isolated our backs and ran riot. I think Andy was shocked by that game and since has gone more defensive. V Sligo Donegal last year and Carlow longford Roscommon Cavan Tipp Cork this year
. We are bringing more players back. We need to keep more up in the forwards. I think Andy needs to go back to playing more like we did v Galway Clare last year. We need to get the balance right but it could take time 12 months or so. It took Kevin Walsh 4 years to get the balance right
Two players have been a lose eg Harnan and Toibin .We didnt have either v kildare league game and Down last year. Our defence looked really shakey. They came back in the middle of the league and our defence improved. We didnt lose a game in the league when they came back. Toibin is a proven intercounty player. He is versatile. He has played in full back line half back line Midfield and half forward. O Dowd and McEntee both played him corner back mostly. They had to. We needed to replace Burke at 4. Toibin did a good job at 4. Shakey at times but overall good. But he is a wing back by trade . And the problem is wing back likes to attack the ball. So if u play them in the corner they cam be caught ball watching. And thats what happened v kildare last year.
I understand why O Dowd and McEntee played him at 4. But he is a quality wing back. But has rarely played there. His versatility has meant he can play anywhere. However he is not on the panel anymore. We must move on.
Harnan is also a proven defender at intercounty. Still young as he debuted v Wexford in 2013 at 19. I was hoping he would push on a bit in the last few seasons. But overall he is a good natural defender who can only get better and I think he will become a quality half back.
I felt at the start of the year our defence would be shakier without them two. We needed two inter county defenders who could replace them. Good intercounty defenders . In the Byrne Cup and v Rossies and Clare game Lavin looked like he could replace Toibin at 4. He was brillant at the start of the season. Conlon had a very good Byrne cup and start of the league. And he was replacing Harnan. If felt like we had replaced Harnan and Toibin. lavin is a more out and out corner back and Conlon is a very good prospect.
But both have had poor games since the Clare game . We are feeling the lose of Toibin and Harnan now. Maybe Shane Gallagher or Shane Glynn are an option at corner back. Both have been the best man markers in Meath club football recently. While Dan O Neill could be the answer at 5. we need to get our defence sorted. When we do we will make more progress. Also our sweepers and blanket defence need to improve." Thank you furlong. I enjoy your posts and you do know Meath football esp the history and the bad times which has happened before
MeathWawa (Meath) - Posts: 61 - 19/03/2018 11:38:09
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Replying To Furlong1949: "I have been at every Meath championship match and most league matchs from 1983 to the present. Some of the points I made above are factual
That in 1982 when we were defeated by Wexford in 81 and after losing to longford in 82 The Meath Chronicle had a headline Meath football RIP. And a Meath team with players like O Rourke Lyons Cassells McEntee were being called by many as the worst Meath team in years .
After we were hammered by Laois in 85 and Dublin in 95 Boylan had decided pretty much to resign with criticism widespread throughout the county. Only for players to ask him to stay in 85 and 95 he would have left. But comments like the worst Meath team in years was widespread in 85 and 95. Why did I mention that?.Well on this forum there is a thread with title Worst Meath team of years. That thread should be taking down as its disgraceful. But I was trying to show even under Boylans era those comments were made.
I knew by bringing up current players playing on 80s and 90s team would open a can of worms. I should have explained myself better. I have a tendency to write in a long winded way. In scatter gun approach where I talk about 5 or 6 things at 1 go. The message I posted above is a bit messy. All over the place. I apologise for that. But my general points I do still agree with.
Not every player that played under Boylan was an outstanding player or an all star player. The same way not every player we have now is poor. We dont have an outstanding players like O Rourke Giles Fay O Connell currently . But we do have a couple of good young footballers who Sean Boylan would have loved to have worked with. Footballers who under Boylans tutorship and playing with greats like Geraghty or Stafford , they would have grown as players.
Boylans teams like all All Ireland winning teams had 5 or 6 outstandingly players eg Giles lyons O Malley. But he also would have 4 or 5 players who werent all star talented players but did the hard work getting the ball to the more talented players who created and made the scores eg Giles Geraghty . Every All Ireland winning team is made up of a handful of outstanding players and other players who arent as talented. Sometimes we glorify the past when the future drys up. Im not saying we didnt have great players and great teams. But we also had a manager who had a touch of genius who could mould players from junior club level into effective performers v the Dubs in a Croker full house.
We dont have any outstanding players currently but we do have good players. Take Graham Reilly. He is not up there with the greats Stafford or a Tommy Dowd. But I could see him doing well in those teams of 80s and 90s. Where he wasnt double marked and the main focus of the attack and a time in 80s and 90s when there was more room on the 40 for half forwards. There was no sweepers in 80s or 90s. I would be critical of Reillys inconsistency and not performing v the top teams. But overall in this decade outside div 1, the best attacking half forward in div 2 3 or 4 has being G Reilly.
Lets take David Beggy , I know this is not a great example. Because Beggy is a legend and scored the winner in 91. But I have seen Reilly score scores Beggys wouldnt have been able to. Beggy added youth and pace to Meath forwards in 80s.But he had the best midfield partnership of the 80s right behind who dominating midfield. Further back he he had at least 3 of the grreatest defenders ever in Lyons O Connell O Malley. Straight in front of him he had one of the greatest full forward lines of all time. If Graham Reilly had the best midfielder partnership of his generation behind him and the one of the best full forward lines in history in front I believe this would have helped him and he would have had the talent to play with these players and it would have helped him develop further as a footballer .
Sean Boylan would have loved player like Brian Menton . Boylan loved versatile players. Menton can play full back wing back or centre field. If Menton was around in the 80s I could see Boylan using him in the half forward line playing a PJ Gillic type role. Keoghan is a top class defender. I could see him playing corner back or half back on our 90s teams easily.
Sullivan has skill and vision. And I think he has potential. He has vision which many players dont have. And is another player under Boylan would develop further. We must remeber even Meath great took a while to develop into top class footballers. Sullivan is 23 now. At 23 Ollie Murphy and McDermont where still developing and far from the finished article . It took Ollie 5 years on the Meath panel before he became a first 15 regular. He debuted in 95. Was on the bench in 96. And was on and off the team in 97 and 98. He was a substitution in the 98 leinster final. But from 1999 to 2001 became the best corner forward in Ireland. And was unmarkable.
John McDermont took 6 years before he really became a great. He made his debut in 1991. He was a light young midfielder. Over the next few years he developed. But even in the summer of 1996. People where saying Meath had a problems at midfield up to All Ireland semi final v Tyrone. It was not til the end of 96 McDermont became a great. But around the leinster final in 96 the fear was Meath midfield was a weakness area. But over the next few years McDermont became the best midfielder in the country. And was voted on the Meath team of the Millenium at midfield.
Forde I know would be contervesial choice. But I am a big fan. He is a player we have been crying out for years. A modern type wing forward who can link defence with backs. He can win breaking ball and score. Actually think he would make great wing back. Again he is a versatile a type of player Boylan would have liked. I could see Forde playing in the Donal Curtis or Evan kelly role in a 90s team. Forde reminds me of Colm Coyle and thats a very good thing.
I hope that makes more sense. I have a tendency to write long winded. In comparison to the chaps on this board who can write in a short and concise way. I dont seem to be able to do that. I have great respect for any Meath supporter on the site. I know we all want the same thing a sucessful Meath team..And it is very frustrating to see how we play at times and difficult to watch our decline . But hopefully we will upturn soon.
I have been tough at times on Meath supporters but it was never in a malicious way. Always respectful the best supporters in Ireland. We are a great football county and Meath football is so important to so many of us. It gives us our identity and simply put it is one of the most important things in our lifes; our passion for Meath football.
Im going to take a break from the site for a while. Its not really working out. But I will keep following as this site is always worth reading the comments of great Meath supporters." Ahh......... There is no reason to take offence from any poster on here. There are all only opinions,and one is a s valid as the other. We all have the same common denominator i.e. the best for Meath football. Your posts bring people like me back in time. Of course we may differ on who we think are the best for each position. I think older supporters were spoiled to some extent by the Meath teams of the past particularly 1984 to 2001. Sean Boylan was a one off,and one of the top 3 all time greats as manager. He certainly raised the bar for anyone following him. To me his greatest quality was his ability to reflect ,learn and move on..I also saw him at close quarters as motivator where he was outstanding.
Even after many years following Meath ,and trying to pick the best 15 i have seen i cannot give a full team .stand out players I would go no 2 O Malley.3 Quinn 4 keoghan 5 Pat Reynolds snr, 7 O Connell 8 Mc Entee 9 Mc Dermott.10 Giles 11 Geraghty 13 O Rourke 15 Flynn.. My indecision will not allow me fill in the others. Even then some photo finishes for some positions such as full back with greats like O Brien Quinn Fay Lyons . etc. etc.
Ok just an opinion,and perhaps you may comment, But i know some of the above names are cast in stone in Meath's football history.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 841 - 19/03/2018 13:54:48
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Replying To nobull456: "Ahh......... There is no reason to take offence from any poster on here. There are all only opinions,and one is a s valid as the other. We all have the same common denominator i.e. the best for Meath football. Your posts bring people like me back in time. Of course we may differ on who we think are the best for each position. I think older supporters were spoiled to some extent by the Meath teams of the past particularly 1984 to 2001. Sean Boylan was a one off,and one of the top 3 all time greats as manager. He certainly raised the bar for anyone following him. To me his greatest quality was his ability to reflect ,learn and move on..I also saw him at close quarters as motivator where he was outstanding.
Even after many years following Meath ,and trying to pick the best 15 i have seen i cannot give a full team .stand out players I would go no 2 O Malley.3 Quinn 4 keoghan 5 Pat Reynolds snr, 7 O Connell 8 Mc Entee 9 Mc Dermott.10 Giles 11 Geraghty 13 O Rourke 15 Flynn.. My indecision will not allow me fill in the others. Even then some photo finishes for some positions such as full back with greats like O Brien Quinn Fay Lyons . etc. etc.
Ok just an opinion,and perhaps you may comment, But i know some of the above names are cast in stone in Meath's football history." Thanks for the above comments Meathwawa.
Nobull I didnt take offence to anyone on here. I have great respect for one and all on the board. This forum is a great reflection of the great passionate supporters we have. On this forum there is more discussion on a single Byrne cup game then other strong counties in hogan stand have on the whole championship.
I just need to write more short and concise messages like the rest of you other guys. I havent got grip with this whole message board thingy yet. My messages are to long winded and I am probaly to much in a nostalgia trip. I agre. We all want the same thing. A more sucessful Meath.
Regards the 1986 to 2001 period it wasnt just the most sucessful period in Meath football . After kerry it was the most sucessful period any county has had in 140 years of gaelic football . It compares well to Dublins current period and Dubs in the 70s. And only Wexford 1914 to 18 or Galway 56 to 66 are similar periods of sucess. But Meath period was still more sucessful then the above. Only Cavan in the 30s 40s and 50s had anything similar to Meaths sucess in 80s and 90s.
It was unprecedented sucess in Meath football and in gaelic football outside kerry. We became kerry for 16 years. Including replays we played in 9 All Ireland senior finals in 16 years and defeated Dublin 9 times and had 3 draws in over 10 years in the championship in that period. It was phenomenonally sucessful period. The thing is when Wexford Cavan and Galway had their periods of sucess there was a massive dip.afterwards and they have never really got back. So it was inevitable we would decline.
. Boylan was the greatest mangers in terms of talent at his disposal. Dwyer had a three under 21 All Ireland winning teams to backbone his kerry sucess. Boylan had no underage sucess backboning the 80s team. Dywer was taking over a county that had 20 plus All Ireland the dominant county in football for decades. Heffernan was taking over a county with 20 plus All Irelands which was the second most successful county. Boylan didnt have the talent or the heritage Dwyer and Heffernan had. Boylans achievements were greater. So Boylan being called the greatest manager of them all is worth consideration. But will never get so in GAA land.
I agree with your best Meath. Only it does feel wrong leaving out Fay and lyons. But I do agree Quinn was the best number 3. But I would include Fay and Lyons in the best 6 backs eg O Malley Quinn Lyons Reynold Snr Fay O Connell.
I think you left one big omission in the forwards for Stafford has to be in at 14. One of the greatest freetakers of all time. Without Stafford we wouldn't have won an All Ireland in 87 88 . I would also consider Mattie Kerrigan or Tommy Dowd along with Giles and Geraghty on the 40. Mattie was one of the best half forwards in the late 60s early 70s. Tommy was one of the best forwards of the mid 90s and won 3 allstars in a row. He won more All stars then Geraghty McDermont or Flynn . Tommy was a great forward.
But we did have a great tradition before Boylan..Every ten years a push for leinster and All Ireland sucess in 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s. Thats what we did before Boylan . And what we should aim for now. The position we r in now we have faced many time in our history, a superstrong Dublin and Meath in the doldrums. We have done it before we can do it again.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 19/03/2018 22:01:59
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Replying To Furlong1949: "Thanks for the above comments Meathwawa.
Nobull I didnt take offence to anyone on here. I have great respect for one and all on the board. This forum is a great reflection of the great passionate supporters we have. On this forum there is more discussion on a single Byrne cup game then other strong counties in hogan stand have on the whole championship.
I just need to write more short and concise messages like the rest of you other guys. I havent got grip with this whole message board thingy yet. My messages are to long winded and I am probaly to much in a nostalgia trip. I agre. We all want the same thing. A more sucessful Meath.
Regards the 1986 to 2001 period it wasnt just the most sucessful period in Meath football . After kerry it was the most sucessful period any county has had in 140 years of gaelic football . It compares well to Dublins current period and Dubs in the 70s. And only Wexford 1914 to 18 or Galway 56 to 66 are similar periods of sucess. But Meath period was still more sucessful then the above. Only Cavan in the 30s 40s and 50s had anything similar to Meaths sucess in 80s and 90s.
It was unprecedented sucess in Meath football and in gaelic football outside kerry. We became kerry for 16 years. Including replays we played in 9 All Ireland senior finals in 16 years and defeated Dublin 9 times and had 3 draws in over 10 years in the championship in that period. It was phenomenonally sucessful period. The thing is when Wexford Cavan and Galway had their periods of sucess there was a massive dip.afterwards and they have never really got back. So it was inevitable we would decline.
. Boylan was the greatest mangers in terms of talent at his disposal. Dwyer had a three under 21 All Ireland winning teams to backbone his kerry sucess. Boylan had no underage sucess backboning the 80s team. Dywer was taking over a county that had 20 plus All Ireland the dominant county in football for decades. Heffernan was taking over a county with 20 plus All Irelands which was the second most successful county. Boylan didnt have the talent or the heritage Dwyer and Heffernan had. Boylans achievements were greater. So Boylan being called the greatest manager of them all is worth consideration. But will never get so in GAA land.
I agree with your best Meath. Only it does feel wrong leaving out Fay and lyons. But I do agree Quinn was the best number 3. But I would include Fay and Lyons in the best 6 backs eg O Malley Quinn Lyons Reynold Snr Fay O Connell.
I think you left one big omission in the forwards for Stafford has to be in at 14. One of the greatest freetakers of all time. Without Stafford we wouldn't have won an All Ireland in 87 88 . I would also consider Mattie Kerrigan or Tommy Dowd along with Giles and Geraghty on the 40. Mattie was one of the best half forwards in the late 60s early 70s. Tommy was one of the best forwards of the mid 90s and won 3 allstars in a row. He won more All stars then Geraghty McDermont or Flynn . Tommy was a great forward.
But we did have a great tradition before Boylan..Every ten years a push for leinster and All Ireland sucess in 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s. Thats what we did before Boylan . And what we should aim for now. The position we r in now we have faced many time in our history, a superstrong Dublin and Meath in the doldrums. We have done it before we can do it again." Yes indeed Stafford was also part of the best full forward line we ever had . I considered the freetaking role in the team also. I picked Giles for that narrowly. I think apart from frees [maybe not quite as good as Stafford} but also a great reader, passer , and playmaker. However ,that is yet another debating point.. Indeed , Meath have a rich tradition particularly in championship. I always admired our pride and determination when wearing the jersey. I am hopeful that those qualities will return,and where we will be seen as the team that will never lie down or be taken for granted. As you know we won matches against better footballers ,but true grit,belief and determination saw us through.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 841 - 19/03/2018 22:46:53
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Replying To nobull456: "Yes indeed Stafford was also part of the best full forward line we ever had . I considered the freetaking role in the team also. I picked Giles for that narrowly. I think apart from frees [maybe not quite as good as Stafford} but also a great reader, passer , and playmaker. However ,that is yet another debating point.. Indeed , Meath have a rich tradition particularly in championship. I always admired our pride and determination when wearing the jersey. I am hopeful that those qualities will return,and where we will be seen as the team that will never lie down or be taken for granted. As you know we won matches against better footballers ,but true grit,belief and determination saw us through." Agree 110% Nobull couldn't put it any better myself. Down and Galway were known have swashbuckling players. Dublin were know for their having players a bit of swagger. Kerry players had a touch of genius. Meath players where known for their never say die spirit, which means bravey and courage. Back in the day, the most difficult opponent to face in gaelic football was a Meath footballer..Because he never gave in. Fought to the final whistle, fought to the bitter end. All the talk about gps and modern techniques and tactics is important of course. But until we tap in to that never give in, never say die spirit, we wouldnt be sucessful again. The day we do we will be successful .
We are a great great championship county. After kerry in the last 80 or so years our record is as good as Dublin and better then Galway Cork Tyrone or Mayo or any county you can think of. We never really got the praise we deserved for wins in the past. Meaths teams and performances left opposing fans says over and over again " how did they do that " after another great Meath comeback. Those Meath performances in yesteryear were inspiring. Made us feel we were unbeatable, when our players played with determination , grit , belief and buckets and buckets of great skill. The football skill of Meath players was always underated. But more then anything those performances were a lesson for life. That you should never give up. When you saw Meath teams like in 91 and those 4 games. When in pretty much every game Dublin should have won, sometimes we are outplayed, but still we won. Because if you have courage belief and unreal determination. Anything is possible. Thats what I learned from watching Meath teams and players in the 80s and 90s. 11 points down v Down in 91 with 15 mins to go O Rourke has pneumonia , we are been outplayed all over the field and we still got the match down to 1 score between the teams going into injury time.. We didnt win on that day but by god we went down with all guns blazing. Thats what I would like to see from current players. Even if your losing by whatever do what Boylan said to his troops. Dont look at the clock, just keep playing. If we start doing things like that again, we will see real progress again.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 20/03/2018 00:14:09
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Quote from Furlong1949; 'Sullivan has skill and vision. And I think he has potential. He has vision which many players dont have. And is another player under Boylan would develop further. We must remeber even Meath great took a while to develop into top class footballers. Sullivan is 23 now. At 23 Ollie Murphy and McDermont where still developing and far from the finished article . It took Ollie 5 years on the Meath panel before he became a first 15 regular. He debuted in 95. Was on the bench in 96. And was on and off the team in 97 and 98. He was a substitution in the 98 leinster final. But from 1999 to 2001 became the best corner forward in Ireland. And was unmarkable'.
Vision - Not from what I have been watching as one of his weakness is passing of the ball - good player though. If Ollie had been from a certain club south of the county he would have been on that team 3 -4 years earlier- a much better forward than at least 3 of the forwards. Ollie was a good player before he got on the senior team and most of his development had come through his club and county minor system.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2189 - 20/03/2018 00:31:50
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Here Furlong 1949.Would you please keep the nonsense posts about football 30 years ago away from current threads abour league games ! Start another thread by all means..your making this threads painful to read ! Posts like essays! Please keep the Boylan day talk to relevant situations
grahamc9897 (Meath) - Posts: 1083 - 20/03/2018 08:41:07
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Replying To grahamc9897: "Here Furlong 1949.Would you please keep the nonsense posts about football 30 years ago away from current threads abour league games ! Start another thread by all means..your making this threads painful to read ! Posts like essays! Please keep the Boylan day talk to relevant situations" Agreed. Don't know why people are still living in the past if I'm honest. We are where we are time to let go of the wonder years.
Loyalroyal17 (Meath) - Posts: 627 - 20/03/2018 09:58:37
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Replying To Furlong1949: "Agree 110% Nobull couldn't put it any better myself. Down and Galway were known have swashbuckling players. Dublin were know for their having players a bit of swagger. Kerry players had a touch of genius. Meath players where known for their never say die spirit, which means bravey and courage. Back in the day, the most difficult opponent to face in gaelic football was a Meath footballer..Because he never gave in. Fought to the final whistle, fought to the bitter end. All the talk about gps and modern techniques and tactics is important of course. But until we tap in to that never give in, never say die spirit, we wouldnt be sucessful again. The day we do we will be successful .
We are a great great championship county. After kerry in the last 80 or so years our record is as good as Dublin and better then Galway Cork Tyrone or Mayo or any county you can think of. We never really got the praise we deserved for wins in the past. Meaths teams and performances left opposing fans says over and over again " how did they do that " after another great Meath comeback. Those Meath performances in yesteryear were inspiring. Made us feel we were unbeatable, when our players played with determination , grit , belief and buckets and buckets of great skill. The football skill of Meath players was always underated. But more then anything those performances were a lesson for life. That you should never give up. When you saw Meath teams like in 91 and those 4 games. When in pretty much every game Dublin should have won, sometimes we are outplayed, but still we won. Because if you have courage belief and unreal determination. Anything is possible. Thats what I learned from watching Meath teams and players in the 80s and 90s. 11 points down v Down in 91 with 15 mins to go O Rourke has pneumonia , we are been outplayed all over the field and we still got the match down to 1 score between the teams going into injury time.. We didnt win on that day but by god we went down with all guns blazing. Thats what I would like to see from current players. Even if your losing by whatever do what Boylan said to his troops. Dont look at the clock, just keep playing. If we start doing things like that again, we will see real progress again." "But more than anything else those performances were a lesson in life " Absolutely agreed. I am at a loss to understand how some people think it is silly to be looking back . Boylan brought his team to the Hill of Tara just to talk about belonging ,and the home place .He used history and belonging to instill pride, passion,determination etc.. He always spoke about the possible if you have a pride and belief. We all know how his teams played. Football is tribal,otherwise why have county boundaries? We need to restore the pride belief,and never say die spirit .That is what is missing now.Boylan used his methods with total conviction. Conviction and belief was what set us apart. We even loved to be hated if it meant opposition knew we would never give up. I very clearly recall sitting in the Cusack for the last match of the famous 4 in 1991 against Dublin Boylans influence was clear to see when 12 meath players were part of an all out attack ending with Foley's goal .Then Beggy's point to win. Two fanatical dub supporters nearby turned with tears in their eyes saying " what do you have to do to bate that little f...er Boylan...that fella would come back from the grave to bate ya"
Going back to the first line about lesson in life i sometimes wonder do players really believe that with top class coaching the skills acquired are easily transferable to all walks of life. Sport with top class coaching is very definately educational. What a great opportunity for personal development. For anyone to say they get nothing back is sheer rubbish. Yes top class coaching is central to all that. Boylan looked back to tradition in order to move forward. Pride,belief, grit and sheer determination cannot be bought in a bottle. It can be awakened and developed with enlightened leadership.
I say that with total conviction as a long time Meath supporter. Others can bore holes in it .That is easy. Perhaps some may even suggest that is not the problem. So what? continue without addressing the problem.No thanks.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 841 - 20/03/2018 12:52:59
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everyone seems to forget that after the golden era of the 90s Meath went into a slump , Boylan was politely told your time is up . Various managers came and went , and we go no netter . that's all because when we were winning ,Meath focussed on the winning and not the developements , we thus missed the boat . Other counties didn't , and they became and are more consistent in the Noughties than we were . Unfortunately things are still abit awry in Meath football, resources are been pumped into a squad that has missed its development years , and will struggle to contest . This resource swallowing behemoth is the Meath Senior team . And unfortunately the powers that be , will hate anyone stating anything negative about what it does or how it does it . Look at Frank Dempseys interview with Andy McEntee after the Cork game .... Frank clearly stated there were a lot of positives in the match ( Where Frank where ?) . Unfortunately like so many of the subscribers on the day , I must have blinked too many times to note those positives .
In the first half Cork missed 7-8 chances ( that were very scorable ) and still lead . They should have been out of site by half time . Numerous Cork scores were got without a Meath Player getting their hands on any of the Cork players , let alone the ball .
Our goal kick out strategy was non existent .
Where did Frank find positives . ?
And then at the end of the interview , to question the cynicism of the Cork team to eek out the win , now that is taking the biscuit .You , do what you have to do to win............
Seamus Lavin scored a great late goal , but all Andy could say was , Yeah he's noted for his finishing . Put the shoe on the other foot Andy, if it was Shane or James , you'd be saying things like , yeah I want him to drive forward "put them on the back foot " , and that's what comes from that .......
Time to call a spade a spade . the Cork Match was diabolical , The defence apart from Keoghan was atrocious .
the positive was that we were not beaten by more .And that Cork never got out of second gear .And 3rdly that it didn't rain .... Frank forget the pompous pandering to the Management team , and do your job , ask the odd harsh question will you ......
It looked like you were about to choke on your first comment about positives .
It's no wonder the Players are beginning to question the system they are been asked to play ( Oh Sorry they never have complained )
Meath_True (Meath) - Posts: 285 - 20/03/2018 14:13:56
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Furlong , I would ask you not to take a sabbatical, although I have been thinking about giving this place a rest for while now, if it is to remain any resemblance of what it was when I joined hs many years ago, it needs posters like yourself, knowledgeable, interesting and likeable.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 20/03/2018 14:31:17
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