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Going behind to a team like Cavan plays right into their hands, they were able to drop players back, win plenty of turnovers and in fairness they moved the ball very quickly into the red zone, they took fair better options than the meath lads did, missed damn all. Particularly in the first half Meath wasted some very good scoring chances. I dont agree that we do not have a system of playing I think a lot is down to the execution of the plan, think it is easy to always blame the line,
longroadback (Meath) - Posts: 300 - 22/02/2018 14:43:06
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Replying To pauk123: "I find it very interesting that the prevailing thought on here seems to be that Andy needs time and it'll take time to turn Meath around when the same posters, in many instances, were howling at the moon to give the last few managers gate! Eamonn O'Brien was fired for not making substitutions quick enough in an AI semi final!!
When coming out with statements like Down last year - maybe we weren't prepared and Cavan - the players were in the wrong mindframe. These are criminal statements from a manager. I'm very cognisant that perhaps we're reading too much into this and he has to say something to the media but both instances are entirely the managements team job.
I will say when I've spoken to a few in the camp they are very positive about this year, much more so than last, lesson seem to have been learned. However, you'll find it very hard to find a player with a bad word to say about Micko or even Banty and they were given short shrift. I fail to see what tangible improvements Andy has made thus far. I hope I'll be eating my words watching Meath in Super 8's and playing D1 football next year!" Agree, i still don't see any improvement in the lads, well actually their fitness levels are pretty up there but other than that we are just as bad as we were last year. Hammered Louth then we were demoralized against Kildare. Deja vu. Still making the same stupid mistakes, this hand passing craic shouldnt be allowed we did it last year and we are worse this year. I dont know what Andy is doing with them but he needs to be doing alot more. 2 years in and we should be improving by now.
Loyalroyal17 (Meath) - Posts: 627 - 22/02/2018 14:55:09
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Replying To longroadback: "Going behind to a team like Cavan plays right into their hands, they were able to drop players back, win plenty of turnovers and in fairness they moved the ball very quickly into the red zone, they took fair better options than the meath lads did, missed damn all. Particularly in the first half Meath wasted some very good scoring chances. I dont agree that we do not have a system of playing I think a lot is down to the execution of the plan, think it is easy to always blame the line," Plan...there obviously is no plan!! The line has alot to answer for on how we are playing. They shoudlnt be allowed play like that...end of!!
Loyalroyal17 (Meath) - Posts: 627 - 22/02/2018 14:56:24
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Replying To longroadback: "Going behind to a team like Cavan plays right into their hands, they were able to drop players back, win plenty of turnovers and in fairness they moved the ball very quickly into the red zone, they took fair better options than the meath lads did, missed damn all. Particularly in the first half Meath wasted some very good scoring chances. I dont agree that we do not have a system of playing I think a lot is down to the execution of the plan, think it is easy to always blame the line," Can you tell us what is that system then ? Andy referred to players not in the right frame of mind. That was fairly obvious for the last few matches. It was obvious that players were afraid to move to set up an attack, and opted for slow lateral passing [with a wet ball] multiplying the risk of error.Not wanting to take responsibility for more direct delivery methods , etc. Think Andy was correct in his statement all right. I would add that was the case for the last few matches also. My question is WHY is that the case? Andy McEntee has to put that right . He has the physical fitness well up,and full credit to him for that. I like his no nonsense approach generally. NO modern day manager seems able to deliver on all areas of modern coaching. Thus i see nothing wrong with any manager bringing in help when HE thinks it is needed. Every other manager is doing it..Maybe they call that early intervention....whatever ,but it is better than HOPING the problem will go away itself.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 841 - 22/02/2018 15:28:30
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Replying To pauk123: "I find it very interesting that the prevailing thought on here seems to be that Andy needs time and it'll take time to turn Meath around when the same posters, in many instances, were howling at the moon to give the last few managers gate! Eamonn O'Brien was fired for not making substitutions quick enough in an AI semi final!!
When coming out with statements like Down last year - maybe we weren't prepared and Cavan - the players were in the wrong mindframe. These are criminal statements from a manager. I'm very cognisant that perhaps we're reading too much into this and he has to say something to the media but both instances are entirely the managements team job.
I will say when I've spoken to a few in the camp they are very positive about this year, much more so than last, lesson seem to have been learned. However, you'll find it very hard to find a player with a bad word to say about Micko or even Banty and they were given short shrift. I fail to see what tangible improvements Andy has made thus far. I hope I'll be eating my words watching Meath in Super 8's and playing D1 football next year!" Agreed. On paper we've s great management team but almost 1.5 years in I see no gameplan or attempt at a game plan. We seem to have no tactical identity at all. Gaelic football, compared with other sports, is remarkably unsophisticated in terms of tactics, so if training 4/5 nights a week, surely we must have some sort of game plan to show for it by now? Are we a defensive counter attacking team like Donegal? A gung ho kickpassing team like Crossmaglen? A hybrid like Mayo, Kerry, Dublin? Otherwise what are we actually doing other than looking at players gps results to see how much running is being done.
Also, have we lost more players again? Where have McCabe, Douglas, Ferguson, Dempsey and Greene gone??
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 926 - 22/02/2018 15:40:31
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Replying To Crinigan: "Agreed. On paper we've s great management team but almost 1.5 years in I see no gameplan or attempt at a game plan. We seem to have no tactical identity at all. Gaelic football, compared with other sports, is remarkably unsophisticated in terms of tactics, so if training 4/5 nights a week, surely we must have some sort of game plan to show for it by now? Are we a defensive counter attacking team like Donegal? A gung ho kickpassing team like Crossmaglen? A hybrid like Mayo, Kerry, Dublin? Otherwise what are we actually doing other than looking at players gps results to see how much running is being done.
Also, have we lost more players again? Where have McCabe, Douglas, Ferguson, Dempsey and Greene gone??" Douglas is back with the hurlers, thank God. Gerry must have run out of matches!!!!
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 742 - 22/02/2018 16:12:05
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Replying To nobull456: "Can you tell us what is that system then ? Andy referred to players not in the right frame of mind. That was fairly obvious for the last few matches. It was obvious that players were afraid to move to set up an attack, and opted for slow lateral passing [with a wet ball multiplying the risk of error.Not wanting to take responsibility for more direct delivery methods , etc. Think Andy was correct in his statement all right. I would add that was the case for the last few matches also. My question is WHY is that the case? Andy McEntee has to put that right . He has the physical fitness well up,and full credit to him for that. I like his no nonsense approach generally. NO modern day manager seems able to deliver on all areas of modern coaching. Thus i see nothing wrong with any manager bringing in help when HE thinks it is needed. Every other manager is doing it..Maybe they call that early intervention....whatever ,but it is better than HOPING the problem will go away itself."]Sometimes the manager needs to just let the players decide in the heat of battle what to do. The players need to work it out amongst themselves what to do. I'd like to see the players given more room to express themselves and take ownership.
Who are the leaders on this team?
bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1668 - 22/02/2018 17:38:37
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We are years behind Dublin and the top teams. Obviously it will then take years for us to close the gap. Not weeks not months not 1 year not 2 years but years. We have a group of young players who lack strenght and conditioning and have had bad experiences at underage and senior level in the Meath jersey. This will be a slow process to improve the confidence and physical strenght of these players.
Also a problem that has bedevilled Meath since 2001. The new way of playing with less kicking more possession hand passing sweepers blanket defences etc. We have under every management since Boylan not got to grip with the new modern game. Not 1 manager not 1 year from 2002 to 2017 did we really get to grip with the modern game. In 2007 and 2009 and 2010 we made an impact but still there was an issue of our tradition style game, failing. If Meath have failed to adapt in 15 years under 7 different managers. Surely Andy needs to be given time to adapt to the changes in gaelic football. We havent clearly got the balance right. This will be a very slow process. And what will happen is the players themselves through experience and plenty of matchs will learn to adapt to the modern game on the field themselves.
If Andy leaves. We are done. There is no outstanding manager in the county to take over. There is no outstanding manager outside the county who will take over. Its Andy or bust.If Andy cannot do it we are in trouble.
The reason why people have in faith in him is because he has been a sucess wherever he went. He was sucessful with our minors and what he did in turning the 6th best team in Dublin into All Ireland champions was very impressive. Look at how Ballyboden have collapsed into medicorcy since he left. Look at how Dublin players like Conal keaney and Michael Dara McAuley rave about McEntee. Keaney said he was the best manager he ever worked with. And keaney worked under Anthony Daly Paul Caffrey Pat Gilroy and Jim Galvin. Its take a strong and impressive Meath man to get the Dubs to praise him.
I think the premiership has a bad influence . Managers sacked after weeks. People are not willing to wait for sucess. They want sucess now they want it yesterday. It takes time. What people expecting Andy to do has never been done before in leinster football in 100 years. It rarely happens that a manager turns things around very quickly especially when you have traditional county in the doldrums. I know there are a few examples in Ulster with McGuiness and kiernan. But Ulster had the best players best tactics best teams best winning tradition in the last 25 years. McGuiness was a one off , a very rare situation where a manager a county and a team all kind unite together under a sort of crusade. Loughnane in Clare in 95 is another very rare example.
The fact is if any other manager in history where in charge it wouldn't make a difference. If Boylan or Dwyer were in charge they wouldnt do any better. Its never been done before. Again im repeating myself but its a fact. It took Boylan 4 years on two different occasions to turn things around. And he had players like Colm O Rourke Martin O Connell Trevor Giles Graham Geraghty. It took Dwyer 5 years and in his second stint as manager to turn things around with best panel of kildare players have had in near a century. It took McGee 4 years with Offaly in the late 70s to turn around and he had possibly the most talented forward of all time in Matt Connor. It only being done 4 times in 50 years of leinster football. And on every occasion it took years to turn things around. Even Pat Gilroy needed 3 years. In his second year Meath hammerd Dublin by 10 points and kerry hammered them by even more. Dublin supporters wanted him gone. Theres a strong possibility Dublin might not have made the breakthrough if he was sacked.
If the internet was around in 1985 and there was a forum like this in 1985 there would be thread after thread calling for Boylan to be Sacked or Boylan hasnt a Clue. The vast majority of Meath supporters wanted Boylan gone after the 9 point hammering to laois in the championship in 85. The criticism was so bad he pretty much decided to leave. Only for the players to plead for him to stay he said he would give it 1 more year. If he left in 1985 there is a very strong possibility Meath would be still at 3 All Irelands.
Of course criticism is good. It is healthy to criticize and ask questions. But we need to be feasonable and have a bit of sporting foresight. This is going to take years before we see real.signs of progress. I expected this year to be pretty much the way it is turning out. Up and down and inconsistent. Remeber Andy has overhauled the squad this spring with 6 to 7 new players on the first 15. 11 of 15 of the team that played v kildare last year are no longer on the panel. It will take considerable time to bed those players in. We could still get promotion, as even in the last couple of years we have been in transitiin and nearly achieved this. But I believe in 12 months you will see progress and in 24 months even more. Kevin Walsh took 4 years to get Galway into div 1 . Look at them now. We are not a million miles away from Galway. Just a year or two at most.
The nighmare scenario would be Andy left this year or next. I think he is in for the long haul. But if supporters were to do what they did to Boylan in 1985 it would be a massive mistake in my book. Yes if he loses the dressing room and we start losing every game then we need to re examine. But the supporters are not always right. In 1985 the Meath supporters calling for Sean Boylan to resign were effectively ending Meaths chances of any sucess. McEntee is the right man at the right time. And for me I just hope when these group of players reach their peak at 26 27 at the start of the next decade and the current group of talented younger minor and under 17 players are coming on the scene that Andy is in charge. I think thats when things will really click.
I understand people frustrations. I am frustrated myself also. Its being the same story for 8 years finish 3rd in div 2 and out of the championship in July. Its the hope that kills you. It has knocked the confidence out of the county. But those 8 years we were in transition and thr break up of the 00s team. I think we have set of new young players. The only way is up. We just need to be a bit patient. Criticize definatly do that. But just be realistic that what Andy faces is a massive task that anytime in the history of gaelic football has been turned around, it has took years not a year or 2 but years to to achieve progess.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 22/02/2018 19:53:34
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If Andy were to try and leave would the players ask him to stay?
bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1668 - 22/02/2018 20:01:41
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Replying To bert09: "If Andy were to try and leave would the players ask him to stay?" In his second year I dont know. But in Boylans second year I dont think the players would have asked him to stay. We lost to Dublin in a leinster in 1984 in his second year and there was allot of disqueit around Boylan. Again supporters were very unhappy with him in 84. It was felt the team was going backwards in 84. And I dont think the players would have said to him after his second year. I dont know but after the defeat to laois in 85 he was gone.
It took O Rourke the lyons and McEntee to ask him to stay. Your talking about three of the greatest leaders in Meath football. They would have the presence and leadership and authority to go up.and ask the manager to stay. Would any of our current players have the presence leadership or authority to go up and ask a manager to stay or leave. Remember Gerry McEntee was offered the Meath job ( and he was still player) before Boylan in 83 and turned it down. Is there any current player playing we have at the moment who would be offered the managerial job if Andy left. I think the answer no. They were unique characters who could go up and ask the manager. Not all the players wanted Boylan to stay in 84 85. There was some who were not happy with him. I wouldnt go into details. You can find it all out if you research it
. But there was players that were not happy with Sean in 83 84 85 . And supporters in 85 were very unhappy. The comments at the time where " sure hes a hurler what would he know about football"
Truthfully it was not til 1991 that certain supporters stopped heavily criticising Boylan. And only in 96 did he really become the king of Meath.
But in 83 84 85 there was allot of criticism in the county of Boylan. If he didnt win leinster 86 he was gone.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 22/02/2018 20:26:48
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Replying To Furlong1949: "We are years behind Dublin and the top teams. Obviously it will then take years for us to close the gap. Not weeks not months not 1 year not 2 years but years. We have a group of young players who lack strenght and conditioning and have had bad experiences at underage and senior level in the Meath jersey. This will be a slow process to improve the confidence and physical strenght of these players.
Also a problem that has bedevilled Meath since 2001. The new way of playing with less kicking more possession hand passing sweepers blanket defences etc. We have under every management since Boylan not got to grip with the new modern game. Not 1 manager not 1 year from 2002 to 2017 did we really get to grip with the modern game. In 2007 and 2009 and 2010 we made an impact but still there was an issue of our tradition style game, failing. If Meath have failed to adapt in 15 years under 7 different managers. Surely Andy needs to be given time to adapt to the changes in gaelic football. We havent clearly got the balance right. This will be a very slow process. And what will happen is the players themselves through experience and plenty of matchs will learn to adapt to the modern game on the field themselves.
If Andy leaves. We are done. There is no outstanding manager in the county to take over. There is no outstanding manager outside the county who will take over. Its Andy or bust.If Andy cannot do it we are in trouble.
The reason why people have in faith in him is because he has been a sucess wherever he went. He was sucessful with our minors and what he did in turning the 6th best team in Dublin into All Ireland champions was very impressive. Look at how Ballyboden have collapsed into medicorcy since he left. Look at how Dublin players like Conal keaney and Michael Dara McAuley rave about McEntee. Keaney said he was the best manager he ever worked with. And keaney worked under Anthony Daly Paul Caffrey Pat Gilroy and Jim Galvin. Its take a strong and impressive Meath man to get the Dubs to praise him.
I think the premiership has a bad influence . Managers sacked after weeks. People are not willing to wait for sucess. They want sucess now they want it yesterday. It takes time. What people expecting Andy to do has never been done before in leinster football in 100 years. It rarely happens that a manager turns things around very quickly especially when you have traditional county in the doldrums. I know there are a few examples in Ulster with McGuiness and kiernan. But Ulster had the best players best tactics best teams best winning tradition in the last 25 years. McGuiness was a one off , a very rare situation where a manager a county and a team all kind unite together under a sort of crusade. Loughnane in Clare in 95 is another very rare example.
The fact is if any other manager in history where in charge it wouldn't make a difference. If Boylan or Dwyer were in charge they wouldnt do any better. Its never been done before. Again im repeating myself but its a fact. It took Boylan 4 years on two different occasions to turn things around. And he had players like Colm O Rourke Martin O Connell Trevor Giles Graham Geraghty. It took Dwyer 5 years and in his second stint as manager to turn things around with best panel of kildare players have had in near a century. It took McGee 4 years with Offaly in the late 70s to turn around and he had possibly the most talented forward of all time in Matt Connor. It only being done 4 times in 50 years of leinster football. And on every occasion it took years to turn things around. Even Pat Gilroy needed 3 years. In his second year Meath hammerd Dublin by 10 points and kerry hammered them by even more. Dublin supporters wanted him gone. Theres a strong possibility Dublin might not have made the breakthrough if he was sacked.
If the internet was around in 1985 and there was a forum like this in 1985 there would be thread after thread calling for Boylan to be Sacked or Boylan hasnt a Clue. The vast majority of Meath supporters wanted Boylan gone after the 9 point hammering to laois in the championship in 85. The criticism was so bad he pretty much decided to leave. Only for the players to plead for him to stay he said he would give it 1 more year. If he left in 1985 there is a very strong possibility Meath would be still at 3 All Irelands.
Of course criticism is good. It is healthy to criticize and ask questions. But we need to be feasonable and have a bit of sporting foresight. This is going to take years before we see real.signs of progress. I expected this year to be pretty much the way it is turning out. Up and down and inconsistent. Remeber Andy has overhauled the squad this spring with 6 to 7 new players on the first 15. 11 of 15 of the team that played v kildare last year are no longer on the panel. It will take considerable time to bed those players in. We could still get promotion, as even in the last couple of years we have been in transitiin and nearly achieved this. But I believe in 12 months you will see progress and in 24 months even more. Kevin Walsh took 4 years to get Galway into div 1 . Look at them now. We are not a million miles away from Galway. Just a year or two at most.
The nighmare scenario would be Andy left this year or next. I think he is in for the long haul. But if supporters were to do what they did to Boylan in 1985 it would be a massive mistake in my book. Yes if he loses the dressing room and we start losing every game then we need to re examine. But the supporters are not always right. In 1985 the Meath supporters calling for Sean Boylan to resign were effectively ending Meaths chances of any sucess. McEntee is the right man at the right time. And for me I just hope when these group of players reach their peak at 26 27 at the start of the next decade and the current group of talented younger minor and under 17 players are coming on the scene that Andy is in charge. I think thats when things will really click.
I understand people frustrations. I am frustrated myself also. Its being the same story for 8 years finish 3rd in div 2 and out of the championship in July. Its the hope that kills you. It has knocked the confidence out of the county. But those 8 years we were in transition and thr break up of the 00s team. I think we have set of new young players. The only way is up. We just need to be a bit patient. Criticize definatly do that. But just be realistic that what Andy faces is a massive task that anytime in the history of gaelic football has been turned around, it has took years not a year or 2 but years to to achieve progess." I see absolutely no evidence thus far (and he's got time) to prove Andy is an outstanding inter county manager.
He's a great club manager there's plenty of evidence and obviously he did well with the minors. However, in both instances getting the team as fit as possible and all pulling the the same direction coupled with a bit of luck (which every manager needs) it will get you far.
Everyone is more or less as fit as each other in the intercounty scene, so that's no real differentiator. What makes the difference is either you have better players or having a superior tactical plan to match up against the opposition better.
We are fine when we have better players (see Clare, Louth etc) but when we are about even with the opposition we lose. Andy had absolutely no idea how the fix or change things against Kildare (who aren't great) and then very hastily rolled out a totally new tactical scheme against Silgo (who we beat 'cause we have better players).
I have no idea why you say it's "Andy or bust" or "Andy cannot do it we are in trouble" to my eye he is, thus far, no better than we had before. It's still early and I agree he should be given time but statements basically saying we're screwed without him are way off base.
pauk123 (USA) - Posts: 189 - 22/02/2018 20:28:05
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Replying To Furlong1949: "We are years behind Dublin and the top teams. Obviously it will then take years for us to close the gap. Not weeks not months not 1 year not 2 years but years. We have a group of young players who lack strenght and conditioning and have had bad experiences at underage and senior level in the Meath jersey. This will be a slow process to improve the confidence and physical strenght of these players.
Also a problem that has bedevilled Meath since 2001. The new way of playing with less kicking more possession hand passing sweepers blanket defences etc. We have under every management since Boylan not got to grip with the new modern game. Not 1 manager not 1 year from 2002 to 2017 did we really get to grip with the modern game. In 2007 and 2009 and 2010 we made an impact but still there was an issue of our tradition style game, failing. If Meath have failed to adapt in 15 years under 7 different managers. Surely Andy needs to be given time to adapt to the changes in gaelic football. We havent clearly got the balance right. This will be a very slow process. And what will happen is the players themselves through experience and plenty of matchs will learn to adapt to the modern game on the field themselves.
If Andy leaves. We are done. There is no outstanding manager in the county to take over. There is no outstanding manager outside the county who will take over. Its Andy or bust.If Andy cannot do it we are in trouble.
The reason why people have in faith in him is because he has been a sucess wherever he went. He was sucessful with our minors and what he did in turning the 6th best team in Dublin into All Ireland champions was very impressive. Look at how Ballyboden have collapsed into medicorcy since he left. Look at how Dublin players like Conal keaney and Michael Dara McAuley rave about McEntee. Keaney said he was the best manager he ever worked with. And keaney worked under Anthony Daly Paul Caffrey Pat Gilroy and Jim Galvin. Its take a strong and impressive Meath man to get the Dubs to praise him.
I think the premiership has a bad influence . Managers sacked after weeks. People are not willing to wait for sucess. They want sucess now they want it yesterday. It takes time. What people expecting Andy to do has never been done before in leinster football in 100 years. It rarely happens that a manager turns things around very quickly especially when you have traditional county in the doldrums. I know there are a few examples in Ulster with McGuiness and kiernan. But Ulster had the best players best tactics best teams best winning tradition in the last 25 years. McGuiness was a one off , a very rare situation where a manager a county and a team all kind unite together under a sort of crusade. Loughnane in Clare in 95 is another very rare example.
The fact is if any other manager in history where in charge it wouldn't make a difference. If Boylan or Dwyer were in charge they wouldnt do any better. Its never been done before. Again im repeating myself but its a fact. It took Boylan 4 years on two different occasions to turn things around. And he had players like Colm O Rourke Martin O Connell Trevor Giles Graham Geraghty. It took Dwyer 5 years and in his second stint as manager to turn things around with best panel of kildare players have had in near a century. It took McGee 4 years with Offaly in the late 70s to turn around and he had possibly the most talented forward of all time in Matt Connor. It only being done 4 times in 50 years of leinster football. And on every occasion it took years to turn things around. Even Pat Gilroy needed 3 years. In his second year Meath hammerd Dublin by 10 points and kerry hammered them by even more. Dublin supporters wanted him gone. Theres a strong possibility Dublin might not have made the breakthrough if he was sacked.
If the internet was around in 1985 and there was a forum like this in 1985 there would be thread after thread calling for Boylan to be Sacked or Boylan hasnt a Clue. The vast majority of Meath supporters wanted Boylan gone after the 9 point hammering to laois in the championship in 85. The criticism was so bad he pretty much decided to leave. Only for the players to plead for him to stay he said he would give it 1 more year. If he left in 1985 there is a very strong possibility Meath would be still at 3 All Irelands.
Of course criticism is good. It is healthy to criticize and ask questions. But we need to be feasonable and have a bit of sporting foresight. This is going to take years before we see real.signs of progress. I expected this year to be pretty much the way it is turning out. Up and down and inconsistent. Remeber Andy has overhauled the squad this spring with 6 to 7 new players on the first 15. 11 of 15 of the team that played v kildare last year are no longer on the panel. It will take considerable time to bed those players in. We could still get promotion, as even in the last couple of years we have been in transitiin and nearly achieved this. But I believe in 12 months you will see progress and in 24 months even more. Kevin Walsh took 4 years to get Galway into div 1 . Look at them now. We are not a million miles away from Galway. Just a year or two at most.
The nighmare scenario would be Andy left this year or next. I think he is in for the long haul. But if supporters were to do what they did to Boylan in 1985 it would be a massive mistake in my book. Yes if he loses the dressing room and we start losing every game then we need to re examine. But the supporters are not always right. In 1985 the Meath supporters calling for Sean Boylan to resign were effectively ending Meaths chances of any sucess. McEntee is the right man at the right time. And for me I just hope when these group of players reach their peak at 26 27 at the start of the next decade and the current group of talented younger minor and under 17 players are coming on the scene that Andy is in charge. I think thats when things will really click.
I understand people frustrations. I am frustrated myself also. Its being the same story for 8 years finish 3rd in div 2 and out of the championship in July. Its the hope that kills you. It has knocked the confidence out of the county. But those 8 years we were in transition and thr break up of the 00s team. I think we have set of new young players. The only way is up. We just need to be a bit patient. Criticize definatly do that. But just be realistic that what Andy faces is a massive task that anytime in the history of gaelic football has been turned around, it has took years not a year or 2 but years to to achieve progess." God those waters are fairly muddy now alright. I think we have to focus on the hear and now however. We are not looking at refinements to a well oiled system here. We are still talking about wanting to see consistent evidence of progression. We want to see critical areas like ALL areas of coaching and planning being dealt with.Because we are in developmental stages still we won't get 10 out of 10 every time . Mistakes are learning points and not too much repetition should be evident in mistakes. I can clearly see an improvement in our physical fitness this year, I wish we could see the same improvement in PLANS and Mental preparation .
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 841 - 22/02/2018 20:41:55
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Replying To pauk123: "I see absolutely no evidence thus far (and he's got time) to prove Andy is an outstanding inter county manager.
He's a great club manager there's plenty of evidence and obviously he did well with the minors. However, in both instances getting the team as fit as possible and all pulling the the same direction coupled with a bit of luck (which every manager needs) it will get you far.
Everyone is more or less as fit as each other in the intercounty scene, so that's no real differentiator. What makes the difference is either you have better players or having a superior tactical plan to match up against the opposition better.
We are fine when we have better players (see Clare, Louth etc) but when we are about even with the opposition we lose. Andy had absolutely no idea how the fix or change things against Kildare (who aren't great) and then very hastily rolled out a totally new tactical scheme against Silgo (who we beat 'cause we have better players).
I have no idea why you say it's "Andy or bust" or "Andy cannot do it we are in trouble" to my eye he is, thus far, no better than we had before. It's still early and I agree he should be given time but statements basically saying we're screwed without him are way off base." In 1983 1984 1985 most Meath supporters would have said There was little evidence to show that Boylan was an inter county manager.
If he leaves who would take over. Who in the county at the moment is a top class inter county mamager in waiting. We could give it to Barry Callagham but that would be the same as Mick O Dowd. Little experience.
Outside the county I dont see Jmmy McGuiness or James Horan taking over.
If McEntee goes this year or next can you please give a name of who should take over that and would turn us into a year or 2 turn us into this team you expect us to be.
Name the manager. Meathman name 1. If not name 1 outside manager who would take on the job that would be an excellent choice.
Name a manager other then Sean Boylan in the county that has a better cv then McEntee . He is the only Meath man to manage a All.Ireland club winning team. And already is one of the most sucessful managers in Meath football history. Only Sean Boylan Father Tully Paul Kenny Colm O Rourke and Andy McEntee have managed All Ireland winning teams. Only McEntee and kenny have reached All Ireland finals at 2 different levels. His CV is better then Cian O Neill Kevin Walsh Pat Gilroyr even James Horan or Jimmy McGuiness before they took inter county job. It is a strong managerial cv it doesnt matter what way you try and lessen its achievements it is a strong CV.
If you look at every manager that won an All Ireland in the last 25 years. 80 or 90% of them won or at least reached an All Ireland final at club level ( Kiernan Pat O Se) under 21 level ( Pete McGrath Pauidi O Se John Mahoney Mickey Harte Jack Connor Jimmy McGuiness Jim Galvin ) and minor and schools level ( Fitzmaurice).
Only Gilroy and Coulihan and Boylan of the last 20 winners had not managed a train a team to minor or under 21 or club sucess before they took the job. Im not saying Andy is as good as the above. But if you want a manager to win an All Ireland he needs to have proved himself at others levels. Very few are sucessful at two levels. Only Mickey Harte Pete Mcgrath and Jack O Connor where successful at two grades. Im not saying Andy is as good as them.or will ever be. Im just saying his CV is very impressive. The best CV of any man that has ever managed Meath. Thats a fact. Name the manager to take over from.McEntee that will lead us to sucess?
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 22/02/2018 20:53:46
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Replying To Crinigan: "Agreed. On paper we've s great management team but almost 1.5 years in I see no gameplan or attempt at a game plan. We seem to have no tactical identity at all. Gaelic football, compared with other sports, is remarkably unsophisticated in terms of tactics, so if training 4/5 nights a week, surely we must have some sort of game plan to show for it by now? Are we a defensive counter attacking team like Donegal? A gung ho kickpassing team like Crossmaglen? A hybrid like Mayo, Kerry, Dublin? Otherwise what are we actually doing other than looking at players gps results to see how much running is being done.
Also, have we lost more players again? Where have McCabe, Douglas, Ferguson, Dempsey and Greene gone??" I agree that the players seem to have lost any semblance of initiative and are so afraid to do something outside the box that they are continually running up blind alleys or mindlessly passing it over and back. During the O byrne cup game in Carlow I remember thinking, how on earth can we expect to progress if we have a system where all 15 players are in our own half while playing with the wind!! But I thought maybe it was just going to take time to hone a style of play with new players, however we are still at it!! It really has to come down to the management. There is never a chance of a quick ball in to a forward because they are not there, and by the time we recycle it, any team worth its salt will have put up the barricades and then you are hoping for a free or a lucky break .( compare that to Cavan who did leave 2 forwards up and when we ended up running up blind alleys loosing possession, the ball was transferred quickly -usually by foot passes to forwards who then had space to take on their marker _even Donal Keoghan couldn't stop his man scoring once the ball was played in accurately and QUICKLY!! Contrary to others I do believe we have players that can compete and succeed at this level, i.e Div 2. I also believe we have a very driven and passionate manager, he just has to let the players play in a way that we can utilise the obvious talents that are there.
Its all about opinions, and maybe mine is wrong too!!!
In relation to the missing players you mentioned , as stated Douglas left and then joined the hurlers , but I believe the rest are still in the squad, just not in match day panels
Footnote (Meath) - Posts: 55 - 22/02/2018 21:06:27
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Anyway, we get beat in one game and people are questioning management? Give over will you , what do we want , mod back? Colm orouke? And his embarrassment of splitting Dublin in two?
Back to topic, I see tipp are slightly favoured by the bookies for this game and we are odds against, I'll be having a large punt on that, and hopefully that will pay for my Cheltenham trip.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 22/02/2018 21:48:21
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Replying To Footnote: "I agree that the players seem to have lost any semblance of initiative and are so afraid to do something outside the box that they are continually running up blind alleys or mindlessly passing it over and back. During the O byrne cup game in Carlow I remember thinking, how on earth can we expect to progress if we have a system where all 15 players are in our own half while playing with the wind!! But I thought maybe it was just going to take time to hone a style of play with new players, however we are still at it!! It really has to come down to the management. There is never a chance of a quick ball in to a forward because they are not there, and by the time we recycle it, any team worth its salt will have put up the barricades and then you are hoping for a free or a lucky break .( compare that to Cavan who did leave 2 forwards up and when we ended up running up blind alleys loosing possession, the ball was transferred quickly -usually by foot passes to forwards who then had space to take on their marker _even Donal Keoghan couldn't stop his man scoring once the ball was played in accurately and QUICKLY!! Contrary to others I do believe we have players that can compete and succeed at this level, i.e Div 2. I also believe we have a very driven and passionate manager, he just has to let the players play in a way that we can utilise the obvious talents that are there.
Its all about opinions, and maybe mine is wrong too!!!
In relation to the missing players you mentioned , as stated Douglas left and then joined the hurlers , but I believe the rest are still in the squad, just not in match day panels" Agree completely with your observations on the field of play ,and also that Andy is indeed a very passionate manager
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 841 - 22/02/2018 21:53:02
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Replying To nobull456: "God those waters are fairly muddy now alright. I think we have to focus on the hear and now however. We are not looking at refinements to a well oiled system here. We are still talking about wanting to see consistent evidence of progression. We want to see critical areas like ALL areas of coaching and planning being dealt with.Because we are in developmental stages still we won't get 10 out of 10 every time . Mistakes are learning points and not too much repetition should be evident in mistakes. I can clearly see an improvement in our physical fitness this year, I wish we could see the same improvement in PLANS and Mental preparation ." The same thing would have been said about Boylan in 1983 1984 1985. People would have said there was no improvements in plans and mental preparation.Actually criticisms against Boylan were much worse. I not saying McEntee is the new Boylan. Criticism is important. If he loses the dressing room and we go backwards of course then his position is gone.
Im trying to show that what he trying to achieve is a massive task . That will take time and patience. It is something that is very rare in leinster football history.Lets look at Boylans first three years
1983 We drew v Dublin and lost the replay. That looks very impressive seen Dublin went onto win the All Ireland. It wasnt. We should have beaten a Dublin team very low in confidence. Dublin were at a all.time low in spring 1983. With a record defeat to Offaly in the previous year. No one gave Dublin a chance of winning even the leinster title in early 83. The previous 3 years were as bad as it has ever gotten for Dublin. The 70s team was breaking up. In 1980 Dublin were beaten badly by Offaly. In 1981 they were beaten by laois. laois only second victory over Dublin in 60 years. The laois manager that day is the last leinster manger to manage a team in leinster to beat Dublin by a leinster man from his county other then Meath and Offaly in the last 45 years. Laois in 1981 were an average div 2 team at best. In 1982 Offaly hammered Dublin by 9 points in the leinster final which is Dublins worst defeat ever in a leinster final.
After winning Sam in 82. Most people expected Offaly to win leinster easily. Laois where seen as their biggest rival. Dublin, no one gave a chance. That Dublin team grew over the championship and the replay win v Cork in Pairc Ui Chaoimh transformed the team. Dublin were very vulnerable in early 83.
In 1984 we won century cup and while it was a trophy at last . But it was challenge competition nothing more or less. Again there were high hopes for 84. But again the loss to Dublin was a massive disappointment. Again same old mistakes. Wasting chances. Nothing learned from the year before.
In 1985 we lost to laois in his third year. Best way to describe this loss is would be if McEntee was to lose to kildare next year in his third year in similar fashion to how Meath lost to kildare last year in 2017. Imagine the outcry. Well thats what happened in 1985. And remeber Sean Boylan had players of the calibre of lyons O Connell Harnan Hayes O Connell O Rourke Flynn. It took him 4 year to turn some of these legends into winners.
Again no ones answered who would suceeed Andy if he left next year.? Any candidates that will lead us to the promised land. His job is a massive one. That has rarely been achieved in leinster football only by 3 men eg Boylan Dwyer and McGee. Three of the greatest managers of all time. And it took them all 4 to 5 years to make the breakthrough. And all of them were under severve pressure to resign in their third year in charge with little progress made. And Dwyer did resign.
In his first three years Eugene McGee barely kept his job. What would a longford man know about football was said to him over and over again. Only for the support of the county board chairman he was gone after his third year. The same with Boylan only after support from a handful of senior players he was gone after his third year. Dwyer resigned after his third year because kildare were not improving. It was in Boylans Dwyers and McGee 4th year progress was made .
We are all frustrated. Criticize all you want. But there is no quick fix. It is a long and at times painful journey but I do believe we are going in the right direction and we will get there in time. I could be wrong. But I have faith in this management team. Keep the faith and over time hings can only get better. Time will tell I suspose. I could be wrong what do I know. It just my opinion. I just believe given this management team time progress will be made. And we could be more sucessful then people think.
Onwards and upwards
. A win v Tipp is essential. Whoever loses from Tipp v Meath promotion is gone. While if Rossies lose v Louth promotion is gone for them. Tipp have finished some games poorly eg v Roscommon, while we always finish strong, this could be a postive. And their record in Semple stadium I think but I could be wrong is poor in the last year. They have lost to Roscommon louth Sligo Armagh in Semple stadium in the last year. And beat only longford and Antrim in Thurles. But with some of the forwards they have , they have huge threat. Remeber what they did to Galway in 2016 quater final. It was some performance. Definatly on form Tipp.are one of the best up and coming teams in the country.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 22/02/2018 22:29:21
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Replying To royaldunne: "Anyway, we get beat in one game and people are questioning management? Give over will you , what do we want , mod back? Colm orouke? And his embarrassment of splitting Dublin in two?
Back to topic, I see tipp are slightly favoured by the bookies for this game and we are odds against, I'll be having a large punt on that, and hopefully that will pay for my Cheltenham trip." No Body is suggesting Mick returns but people are entitled to question management.. There has been a few dreadful performances under Andy (Down,Kildare twice,Cavan ,) As I stated in the past I think he is perfect for the job and if anyone can get us up the ladder it's him..I hope your bet comes up because every time I back Meath they lose ,I should back tipp then we would be guaranteed a draw at least..
grahamc9897 (Meath) - Posts: 1083 - 22/02/2018 23:23:15
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Any idea when team announced?
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17035 - 23/02/2018 09:50:31
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Replying To royaldunne: "Any idea when team announced?" Supposed to be this evening. Knowing us it will be the morning!
Who wants to lay a bet that Tobin will be announced as starting but doesn't. Anyone any idea why he has done this with last couple of game??
Loyalroyal17 (Meath) - Posts: 627 - 23/02/2018 10:24:32
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