Meath Forum

Meath v Roscommon

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Replying To endgame:  "McStay wasn't nearly got rid of last year.Roscommon won the Connacht title and McStay got an extension to his term."
In the winter of 2016 McStay was nearly got rid off by Roscommon. His co manager walked Fergal O Donnell. I think that is a fact. I think Mcstay even refered to his critics in Roscommon after connacht final last year. Didnt Gay Sheeran basically say a Mayo man should not be managing Roscommon. In the winter of 2016 it was a winter of discontent in Roscommon. There was allot of criticism of Mcstay and McHale. I think that is a fact.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 28/01/2018 22:46:09    2071690

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Replying To ziggy320001:  "Personally don't think there is more much between both teams.."
I would agree Ziggy. I dont think there is much between the teams. I would have Roscommon ahead of Galway at the end of 2017 season. Most people did. Lets see how this season goes. Galway are even more inconsistent then us. Beat Mayo in 2016. Then get hammered by Tipp in 2016. Beat Donegal and Mayo in 2017 but get hammered by Kerry and Roscommon in 2017. They are a real jenkl and Hyde team.
Theres allot of young teams in the country Galway Meath Roscommon Tipp kildare and I dont think there is to much between them all. Galway Ross Tipp kildare all had underage sucess. We didnt. I think we might have a better manager. McEntees cv would be better then the above teams managers. Time will tell. It will be very interesting in 5 or 6 years time to see which of these teams are more sucessful. All teams with potential.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 28/01/2018 22:55:54    2071692

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "In the winter of 2016 McStay was nearly got rid off by Roscommon. His co manager walked Fergal O Donnell. I think that is a fact. I think Mcstay even refered to his critics in Roscommon after connacht final last year. Didnt Gay Sheeran basically say a Mayo man should not be managing Roscommon. In the winter of 2016 it was a winter of discontent in Roscommon. There was allot of criticism of Mcstay and McHale. I think that is a fact."
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Roscommon didn't nearly get rid of McStay though some in Roscommon football would probably have Ben happy if he left after they were relegated. O'Donnell quit and brought two selectors with him saying he was being undermined. Seems closer to the truth to say it was O'Donnell that was trying to undermine McStay and McHale. Some players didn't return for Roscommon in 2017 for various reasons, but some because they had ties with pro-O'Donell politics.

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Pro-O'Donnell camp Sheerin went on a rant about McStay and McHale because they're from Mayo. Not because they're not from Roscommon even though McStay has lived there for years, played for Roscommon Gaels and coached Roscommon minors and U21s. There's no pleasing some people!

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5955 - 29/01/2018 10:18:22    2071792

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "The point about Dublin and kerry not doing these mistakes and our players do. Of course they dont Dublin Mayo and Kerry are the 3 best teams in the country. Played in many All Ireland finals with players with loads of experience and who have been around the block a couple of times. We are a young upcoming team thats learning the inter county game . We will make mistakes thats what young up and coming teams do. We are years behind Dublin. You dont just click a switch and become as good as Dublin over night. Its a long long road. With many ups and downs. But all you can ask is for improvement and going in the right direction. Getting the result against the team that the bookies and everyone expected to get promoted is progress. Its not made us into Dublin overnight. Its going to take allot of hard work and victories and defeats to get there. But todays result would have surprised many in the gaa .

Most expected Roscommon to win. You can see on main forum there r very few Rossies. They are suprised. They though they would win comfortably. You dont see many of our neighbours making comments on the main forum Ross v Meath thread. If we lost it would be full of Dubs and kildare making negtive comments. Very few of neighbouring counties supporters have made any comments. Because they are surprised Meath got a result.

It is a good result today. Simple as. And it could be a massive point come April. Its is a sign of progress the result. The performance was a mixed bag mixing the good with the bad. But thats happens when a team is building . Its a slow process. Rome wasnt built in a day."
I made it very clear what I said about dublin/Kerry. I never said we should be as good as them or anything like that, what I said was our hadk8ng errors is down to lack of concentration which you don't see from the top teams. As I said already, this has nothing got to do with ability, more having your head in the game, decision making etc. Eamon Wallace chipping a ball into the keepers hands when through on goal from 20 yards out? Pure indesision, couldn't decide to go for goal or over the bar, ended up with nothing. Madness.

Martinr5399 (Meath) - Posts: 7 - 29/01/2018 10:40:14    2071809

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Mickey Burke said he had a poke in the eye on lmfm. I taught that substitution tactical.

bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1192 - 29/01/2018 10:49:34    2071813

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Great that heads didnt go down as soon as the opponent went a bit ahead but the old problem of not closing it out when we're ahead reared its head again.
Its one point more than I expected so cant complain too much though.

RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 29/01/2018 10:57:43    2071818

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Replying To bobkarlgees:  "Mickey Burke said he had a poke in the eye on lmfm. I taught that substitution tactical."
He did go down holding his face near the goalpost but i was too far away to see a poke. He is a great player and will always give 100% but his lack of pace got found out very early on in this game

SheridansTry (Meath) - Posts: 168 - 29/01/2018 12:18:35    2071879

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We done brilliantly to come back from 5 points down but you'd still have to say it is a point dropped, no team leading by 4 points in added time should fail to win the game.

But anyway look, this is still a young team and McEntee is only starting his second season incharge so there's plenty of time for improvement. Roscommon were comfortable favourites for the game but we showed that we're for a fight in Div2, fingers crossed we can build on this result.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8583 - 29/01/2018 15:35:10    2072009

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Its not good when someone is being caught for pace on the soft ground in January. I always thought center back would susuit mickey better but he was never really tried there.

Foley91 (Meath) - Posts: 339 - 29/01/2018 16:34:10    2072050

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "link

Roscommon didn't nearly get rid of McStay though some in Roscommon football would probably have Ben happy if he left after they were relegated. O'Donnell quit and brought two selectors with him saying he was being undermined. Seems closer to the truth to say it was O'Donnell that was trying to undermine McStay and McHale. Some players didn't return for Roscommon in 2017 for various reasons, but some because they had ties with pro-O'Donell politics.

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Pro-O'Donnell camp Sheerin went on a rant about McStay and McHale because they're from Mayo. Not because they're not from Roscommon even though McStay has lived there for years, played for Roscommon Gaels and coached Roscommon minors and U21s. There's no pleasing some people!"
Rightly or wrongly Gay Sheerin speaks his mind. This pro and anti O Donnell campaign that has been created on social media is very tiresome at this stage.

ispeakwisdom (Roscommon) - Posts: 2410 - 29/01/2018 17:51:52    2072084

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Great to see McGill on team of the week. He's turning into a really good no-nonsense full back and hopefully can build on the Meath tradition of having top class full backs.

bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1668 - 29/01/2018 17:52:33    2072085

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Just seen highlights of Meath v Roscommon,just didn't get the number of the player who lost the ball just before the penalty.It was criminal to loose such a ball and it was lost very timidly,also the penalty seemed very harsh.

jake1 (Meath) - Posts: 268 - 29/01/2018 20:34:45    2072167

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Very disappointed with RTE coverage of game. Once again the emphasis is all on top division games. With exception of Offaly v Dublin, even 2nd tier hurling holds no Providence despite the fact that it's almost an annual occurrence to see the eventual winners coming from 1B.

ClonardGael (Meath) - Posts: 75 - 29/01/2018 20:53:51    2072178

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Firstly it was a very exciting game by two of the youngest teams in the country. Roscommon are ahead of Meath in terms development. And achievements. Provicial champions and two years in division 1. Roscommon are ahead of Meath at the moment. But I always expected yesterday to be close. Meath have played Galway 5 times in recent years and only lost once. And Meath had defeated Roscommon in two challenge matchs last year. Both Galway and Roscommon are up and comig teams with lots of potential and teams to watch out for. So always felt the gap wasnt as big as people wanted to believe it was.

In the firsthalf Roscommon where the better team and into the second half this contd. Roscommon have good backs. And they were playing well. At midfield I thought Meath won this battle. Roscommon weakness is probaly midfield. And with Menton/ Flanagan and Rooney on the bench and under the guidance of Gerry McEntee, I think our midfield is improving . We only had 1 midfieder last year in Menton ( Jones showed glimpses of potential but he only play 2 games and Toher is not a midfielder he is a wing forward). This year we have 3 midfielders. In the last 20 minutes Meath took control of midfield. And if you take control of midfield in the last 20 mins of game. You always have a chance of winning. Midfield has been problem area since John Mcdermont retired. We still have issues there. But I think we rimproving in this sector. We still need to improve on breaking ball.

The difference was the Rossies forwards in the first half Meath backs did well. Players like McGill Keoghan Lavin and Conlon are good defenders. And they played well especially McGill. Who has replaced Kevin Reilly without fuss. And has slowly developed into another top class Meath full back. But there is still a few weak links in the Meath defence. We havent got the right mix back there yet . While Rossies have some of the best young forwards in the country. Roscommon have class young forwards. And when the ball went up to the Roscommon forwards the ball sticked and the Roscommon forwards got their scores easier then Meath. Becuase Roscommon have better forwards at the start.
Meath where playing a full forward of three light young half forwards because Lenihan our best inside forward was injured. Sullivan T Reilly and J Wallace couldnt make the ball stick. While the quality young Roscommon back where playing well. That why Roscommon where better in the first half. But still there was only 1 point between the teams at half time.

The last 20 mins I have seen Roscommon people on the forum saying Roscommon got complacent. However if you look at the evidence, maybe the 1-6 Meath scored was a bit down to Meath upping their game and playing well. Meath had a role in the game changing from a 6 point lead for Roscommon to 4 point lead for Meath. Murtagh was a loss. But to say Roscommon collasped after he went off makes no sense. Firstly Murtagh is a quality young forward with a great future, a probale all star forward.

But Murtagh going off is not going to lead to good Roscommon collasping. Roscommon are not a one man team. They have plenty of good footballers all over the field. Meath had a role to play in the comeback. People always downgrade Meath performances. The fact of the change in the game was based in 4 factors 1 Meath taking control of midfield. Meath looked stronger in midfield 2 Meaths fitness 3 Impact of Meath subs 4 Return of the old Meath spirit.

1 Meath took control at midfield in the last 20 mins. Menton and Flanagan looked a stronger partnership overall then Roscommon with Enda Smith. Who is top class footballer. But probaly is more a top class half forward then a traditional midfielder

2 Meaths fitness has improved under McEntee. We have had a problem with fitness for years. Since Boylan left we have faded badly in games. Under McEntee even in the championship we looked very fit v Louth in June and Donegal in July. Our fitness levels have improved dramatically under McEntee throughout the league and championship.

3 Both teams had strong benchs. The Roscommon bench looked really good on paper but with the exception of Donie Smiths peno the bench made little impact. Im sure that Roscommon will make a big impact in future games. The Meath bench made a huge impact. The Meath bench looked stronger then I have seen in a long time. Even under Boylan we didnt have strong bench. Our bench was Mattie Mcabe in the 80s, Jody Devine in the 90s and Ray Magee in the 00s . And that was it. But McEntee has brought 11 players into Meath who never played before for the county. This has added a depth to the panel I have not seen before.

Conlon came on and he made a big impact. Eamon Wallace who also was a sub who came on, made a big impact with his and his running at Rossies defence with his brother Joey caused problems. But it was Mckeever and Toibin coming of the becnh that changed everything. In thefirst the young light Meath forwards could not make the ball stick. Toibin is strongly built player and is turning into a big impact sub for Meath. He came of the bench to help us draw with Cork last year, and he also came on bench to win the game v Sligo in the championship and he came off the bench in the Roscommon yesterday and against longford two weeks ago and made a big impact in both games.. While McKeever who was making his debut has been the best club forward by a mile in Meath club football in the last few years. He has had injuries. But he is available this year, hes 26 so hes actually one of the older players on the team now. But he made a difference scoring 3 points and setting up the goal. In the first half Meath had no one in the forwards standing up. Our two three best forward two of them where not playin well Sullivan and G Reilly. And D Lenihan was injured. In the last 20 minutes Toibin and Mckeever where making an impact

4 The final reason why Meath came back is a return of the old never say die spirit under MCentee. I will explain this in another separate message below

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 30/01/2018 01:28:49    2072262

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The final reason for the change in the last 20 mins is something that is giving me postivety for the future. The return of the old Meath spirit. Meath football always has this reputation of a never say die spirit. Under Boylan, Meath where the best team in the final quarter in the country for 20 years. In the final quarter of games, Meaths mental resolve got stronger. And Meath won so many big games and titles in the final 20 mins with this resolve eg 1988 All Ireland v Cork, 1991 4 games v Dublin, and the two All Ireland finals v Mayo in 96 and many many more games. All these games are examples when the oppostion got tired and nervous and Meath grew stronger and showed great nerve and mental strenght. Meath would also make these extraordinary comebacks under Boylan. The never say die spirit of Meath football became legendary. But it was always part of Meaths teams going back to the 40s 50s 60s and 70s. The three games v Louth in the late 40s caught the countries imagination like the 4 games in 91. And Meath showed great will and desire to beat one of the best teams in the country in 47. While the 1970 Leinster final v Offaly is considered not only one of the greatest leinster finals ever, but one of the greatest games ever with the greatest Meath comeback of all time.

But since Boylan left that old Meath spirit has disapppeared. For 13 years since he left, there has been no great comebacks. And Meath teams instead of having a great spirit where now wilting in the second half and half second collaspes where common occurence. Which became almost game after game occurence under O Dowd in his final year. There has been so many games where Meath had poor second halfs since Boylan left eg Wexford 2006 Cork 2007 Wexford 2008 Louth 2010 Kildare 2010 Westmeath 2015 Cavan 2015 Dublin 2016.

However under McEntee this has stopped. Now I know we let a goal in the Roscommon game to draw. But that was down to inexperience. Players dont know how to close out game. Like Dublin did v Mayo last year and kerry did v Mayo in 2015.

But overall not since Boylan have I seen Meath comebacks. While under McEntee ,Meath have finished pretty much every game very strongly, which is soemthing I have not seen in 12 years or more. With the exception of the two kildare games. We are now making comebacks and never giving up and if we have a lead we now bury the oppostion team, something we havent done in years.

For example
In the league we finished very strongly v Derry ,
We finished very strongly v Clare,
We finished very strongly v Fermanagh,
And we finished very strongly v Galway ( we were 5 points at one stage with 15 mins to go and we won the game),
And finished very strongly v Cork ( We were 9 points down with 25 minutes to go and we drew the game, first bona fide great Meath comeback since Boylan retired).
And finally finished strongly v Down, but not enough to win, left it to late

In the championship
We finished very strongly v Louth ( scoring 7 points in a row to finish with 27 points) ,
We finished very strongly v Sligo,
And we finished strongly v Donegal ( But McBreaty and Michael Muprhy brillance won the game for Donegal in injury time)

This years Byrne cup and league , the above thread has contd
We finished very strongly v Carlow, Wicklow and Longford , and in first league game v Roscommon we were 6 points down with 20 mins to go and by injury we went onto draw the match.

So in every Meath game since McEntee took over ( with the exception of the two kildare games), Meath have found that old never say die spiirt in every game. I have not seen that once consitently any year since Boylan left. But also this has been associated with all McEntees teams. At underage leve when he got Meath to the All Ireland minor final in 2011 , there was two great comebacks v a very highly fancied Tyrone team in the quater final and a comeback v Mayo in the semi final.

With Ballyboden, when he won the Dublin senior title. In the quater final, semi final and final ,Ballyboden under McEntee finished all these games very strongly and carved out 1 point wins in the dying minutes. These type of winning performance was also seen in the semi final v Clonmel with another comeback in the dying minutes. I remeber a friend of mine from the Ballyboden club, thought the performances under McEntee where similar to Meaths wins under Boylan in the 80s and 90s.

McEntees key strengh, if you ask anyone who has been managed by him, is his man management skills. But also all his teams at minor inter county level, club level and now at senior county level seem to be very fit, but also have a never say die spirit and fight to the bitter end. This has to be good that Meath have a manger who is steeped in the traditons of Meath football, in that what Sean Boylan used to say to the players " dont look at the clock, just keep playing and never give up". If McEntee can engrain this in this young Meath ( many of which he managed to a minor All Ireland final) a true Meath never say die spirit, then Meath have every chance of being stronger in the coming years and even been a sucessful gaelic football team .

We are are far from the finished artIcile. Still years behind Dublin and the Kerrys. And we still havent got grip to the modern way of defending and attacking with the ball, Our traditonal kick and catch is no longer the sucessful way of playing. The possesion game is the new way to sucess. It will take us while to sort that out. We are still physically light and we can be outmuscled in the tackle. We are very experienced and still havent learned how to close out a game v stronger teams eg Donegal Roscommon. But that will come with experience.

But we do have is good young backs who can defend eg Donal Koeghan, Seamus Lavin, Conor McGill, Brian Conlon Brian Power and Shane Gallagher . We have a midfield that is no longer being cleaned out, it is more competitive midfield under Gerry McEntees guidance and tutorship. We have some modern young wing forwards eg James McEntee and Alan Forde . And good young forwards like Cillian Sullivan, Padraig McKeever, Donal Lenihan, Bryan McMahon, Joey Wallace , Eamon Wallace, Mark Mcabe, Ben Brennan, Thomas Reilly, Daire Rowe. Along with strongest management team since Boylan left . We do have the basis of proper functioning decent inter county team which in the next few years as these young players reach their mid 20s, I believe they will be more able for divsion 1 football.

(And also some of the young talent coming through at underage in my view is the best we have produced since the 90s. And hopefully in the next few years , we will see the excellent work done at underage level turning into titles and silverware at the new under 17 and under 20 level. When they come on the intercounty scene at the start of the next decade that could be postive addtion to the mix also).

But it will take time. But this return of the old Meath spirit is a very good sign indeed. A never say die spirit is the cornerstone of every sucessful Meath team. Boylans teams always made comeback and never gave up.
(The only time there was not a comeback under Boylan was in the 2001 final. Galway were the better team, but there was no Meath comeback simply because in 10 mins we had the worst run events in a final ever eg Player sent off, Fay deciding to take himself off Joyce unknown to management, Giles missing a peno and Ollie Murphy going off with a asmashed hand. This all happened in 10 mins. Galway would have still have won, but those events led to no Meath fightback .)

in the future ,We will be up and down for a year or two. But we are going in the direction.
Finally simple as this, The road to sucess is simply explained in two sentences. Obtain promtion to division 1 . Stay in divsion 1 . or put it this way
Obtain promtion to division 1 + Stay in divsion 1 = sucess
This will be very difficult, but it is not impossible. I would say we are 24 months away from being good enough for divsion 1.After that anything is possible.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 30/01/2018 01:34:07    2072263

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Replying To ClonardGael:  "Very disappointed with RTE coverage of game. Once again the emphasis is all on top division games. With exception of Offaly v Dublin, even 2nd tier hurling holds no Providence despite the fact that it's almost an annual occurrence to see the eventual winners coming from 1B."
Leave them to it, let us be the underdogs heading into this League, we don't want the spotlight on us at this early stage anyway, let people forget about us then we will come out of nowhere and shut them all up!

Loyalroyal17 (Meath) - Posts: 627 - 30/01/2018 08:53:39    2072274

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A bit off topic maybe but - with all the new trends and modernization of the GAA, how can keepers still not have a jersey that doesn't clash with the opposition? Colgan wearing a training top. and the Kerry keeper too. Looks terrible.

meathgaa91 (Meath) - Posts: 47 - 30/01/2018 13:19:30    2072393

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I have to say I thought Colgan played well. First competitive start. He made 3 great saves. Kick outs where decents. Those 3 saves were important. Any of them went in and it was curtains for us. Good debut for Colgan.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1046 - 30/01/2018 13:38:22    2072403

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Replying To Loyalroyal17:  " Leave them to it, let us be the underdogs heading into this League, we don't want the spotlight on us at this early stage anyway, let people forget about us then we will come out of nowhere and shut them all up!"
Well we have very good at been quiet and been underdogs for good while now. Just not very at coming out of no where though :)

bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1192 - 30/01/2018 14:37:04    2072422

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Was O'Sullivan as bad as people were making out, only saw the highlights, but his goal was excellent. Our movement and hand passing looked pretty good, but again I'm only basing that on the little I saw.

GlasgowRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 275 - 30/01/2018 14:48:06    2072425

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