Let's first of all remember be got to an All Ireland quarter final by beating London. So let's put things in to prospective here. We struggled for large periods in the first half of that game . Kerry ripped us apart and Roscommon ripped us apart this year so really not much has being learned in 2 years in my opinion. This years farce where management made a big call in replacing goalkeepers with an outfield player for free taking reasons showed one reason that the management weren't good enough. It back fired completely. Good management normally get these big calls at least half right. Keating , Givney , Johnston are needed this year if only to give experience to the young forwards we have coming through. A small county like ours needs all its best players available and all singing from the same hymn sheet. This can only be achieved with 100% confidence in the management and players buying into the system that's being used. To me the last few years has looked like "let's make it up as we go along" kind of stuff. Hence so many players don't seem interested. We now have 8 months to prepare for the home game against Armagh just like we had for the Monaghan game this year . We had Monaghan for the taking. Big scalp at home would have done wonders for morale . But we all know the end result.., lost on the line when on the home straight. See there is nothing that gives me any inclination that this management team can cut it at senior inter county level. Yes they have restored a bit of pride back in the blue jersey. Tactically they don't seem good enough. The best scoring forward in the county will be more than likely sitting in the house when Management name their panel because of his past sins. Will the other players that were unavailable last year return ? Do they see it any differently that before they left? Forde leaving might entice some of them back. All in all if Hyland survives Div 2 and wins a few Ulster championship games he will have been a success . Anything less and he will be leaving it as he found it and that will have been a wasted 4 years.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 22/10/2015 13:37:50    1801245

Skelling
County: USA
Posts: 61

1801162
Mowbar, you say that the management team "Their attitude is that if they have not come through the so called youth development squads they are no good." What evidence have you to support this? Fire it out there. Are you following them around?
Since the current manager was appointed the following players have been called up to the senior panel with varying degrees of success:

Ronan Flanagan, Damien O'Reilly, Padraig Reilly, Martin Reilly, John McCutcheon, James Reilly, Philip Tinnelly, Oisin O'Connell, David Wright, Cian Mackey, Paul Smith, Mark McKeever, Tomas Corr, Robert Maloney-Derham, Alan Clarke. There are probably more but you get my point.

Bear in mind that Martin Dunne left the U-21 panel early in 2010 and Eugene Keating didn't play that year at all.


I don't rate Dunne so makes no difference.

You name the above how many are still with the panel or are just not good enough. With respect to the 15 you mentioned how many were at inter-county level and would be picked outside of the county of Cavan to be truly honest I could pick only two that might make it in the top 15 counties yes two and they would probably be sitting in the subs bench.
Look I am there at most of the matches at all levels either as a stuart or as a paying supporter. I listen to these lads talking about certain individuals. They have no vision for outside the loop player or shall I say the talked about players.
I have watched quality players being completely ignored by these so called coaches and know all's. Naming player's is all very well, amongst people like you, you could name 100 easy and people that read the newspaper or this forum could practically come up with the same 100 WHY easy you keep naming them. Try and watch the wider picture for a change, until this happens Cavan are going no place.
One at this stage one could all ready name the starting 15 for the McKenna cup thats how predictable it has become in this county.

Mowbar, you say that the management team "Their attitude is that if they have not come through the so called youth development squads they are no good." What evidence have you to support this? Fire it out there. Are you following them around? ( You ask me the above and yes I do follow them around and have done so for the last fifty odd years)

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 22/10/2015 14:05:10    1801257

Some of your points are fair and reasonable but you let yourself down with the common theme of centring in the bad and ignoring the good.

For example, why mention that we only beat London? Why not mention the great win in Celtic Park to show a balanced view? We can only beat what's put in front of us.

I thought the goalkeeping issue was very odd as I think Farrelly is well capable of taking short kick-outs which is the one thing that Galligan did bring.

I have absolutely no interest in seeing Johnston play. Just my opinion. It's being done to death but that's how I feel. Givney was injured last year. I hope he returns but if lads don't want to play then so be it. It may be down to Forde and/or Hyland but they're there for a year so they can either put themselves forward for selection or risk looking back at inter-county years missed. It's up to them.

You could be 100% right on the inability to bring the team on. Maybe Hyland's greatest achievement will have been to bring a stop to the bullshit that went before and he should have bowed out this year. I'm not here to defend him. He has a year left and I'll be there supporting them. I hope we progress. If not we'll have a new man next year who will surely do all the right things with all the players out there that Hyland won't look at.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 22/10/2015 14:23:08    1801262

I always Paul O'Connor should have been given a try with the seniors. I know he was in the panel but apart from the Under 21s and the Junior All Ireland I don't remember seeing him playing any minutes of senior at all. Heard he was injured last year though

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts: 369 - 22/10/2015 14:38:43    1801269

Mowbar, I'm not being smart but I'm not sure what you're talking about in that last post. You've gone to the games for fifty odd years. Fair play to you but I meant do you follow the so-called scouts around to see who they're watching or not watching.

With regards to the players I listed and your reply, the point is that these players were selected for reasons other than that they came through the underage county teams. I was pointing that out in response to you saying that that was the only way players came through. You're factually incorrect. Whether they remain on the team or not is for the manager to decide. Are you suggesting he brings them in, thinks they're good but discards them in some reverse conspiracy or what is it you're saying? I listed fifteen of the top of my head. Five of them started against Roscommon last year. That's one third of the team that Hyland didn't see come through underage county. Ray Galligan in goals makes it six. Two more were on the bench.

As for your point on how many would make a team outside Cavan, I'd say plenty of them would make Divsion 3 and 4 teams and not that many would make Division 1 teams. What that has to do with anything I also don't know. If there are players that you think would improve the panel let's hear them.

And as for the "people like you" comment. Obviously you know me very well, what games I see and what little hidden gems of players I've missed over the year.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 22/10/2015 14:54:27    1801283

Skelling
County: USA
Posts: 63

I have no intention in naming anyone as there are enough out there shouting names like you without me jumping on the band wagon.
I can tell you this however there is quality here in Cavan but most are ignored why I don't know but it's how it is.
Maybe if players were allowed to express themselves and not be stifled playing puke football maybe things might get better but as it stands this county is going no place fast.

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 22/10/2015 15:46:39    1801307

So you get all worked up about players not being on the county team but you won't tell us, anonymously on a internet forum, who they are as there are others doing it? One of these is me even though I haven't said that anyone should be on the county team.

But you can confirm that there is quality out there and for some reason they're not being picked. Could it be that the manager disagrees with your view on these unnamed players? Could it be that simple?

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 22/10/2015 16:32:19    1801315

There might be potential out there but no quality that hasn't being tried before.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 22/10/2015 17:00:34    1801327

Shane Grey and Keith McCabe from kingscourt.
Murray and padraig Cahill from killygarry.
Adrian smith crossarlough.
Thomas Reilly kilishandra.
Oisin o connell castlerahan.

Just a couple I seen this year in breffni. Maybe they have been tried.

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 247 - 22/10/2015 18:31:25    1801350

What about players that play junoir Football ?

Biscuitman (Cavan) - Posts: 12 - 22/10/2015 20:32:07    1801382

Biscuitman
County: Cavan
Posts: 12

1801382
What about players that play junoir Football ?

Why not if they are good enough but difficult the transition from junior to senior football. Templeport just come up from junior and they have a couple of nice players.

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 23/10/2015 12:02:43    1801497

I think what we don't have is the expertise or experience to bring u21s or decent club players to the next level. That's where the breakdown is. If you look at some decent u21s from 2011 or 2012 there is no real bimprovement in their play four years later. None of them can stand up and take the game "by the scruff of the neck " as the saying goes , when the chips are down. There a no Jim Reilly or a Stephen King to rally the team in the hour of need. When we were winning we had leaders Caralon in the 60s Texas in the 70s Jim Reilly in the 80s King in the 90s. We are leaderless on and off the pitch.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 23/10/2015 13:24:32    1801536

Forget about new players for the minute, What I'd like to know is, why does our county board appear to be standing still when there is clear issues to be addressed around the senior management team? Obviously we have Terry for another year, but who's going to help him? We've lost Forde and McHale, has any progress been made in bringing in high-profile replacements? The whole thing seems a bit of a farce really, especially in comparison to Mayo where they have wasted little time assembling a potent management team (which is rumoured to include Tony McEntee, a man I'd hoped would have been a candidate to replace Terry).

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1022 - 24/10/2015 18:30:27    1801742

This forum has long lost any credibility in discussing Cavan GAA. It's full of cranks, people with an agenda against Terry Hyland and the spokes people for failed county players. That's bad enough but then you are faced with revisionist nonsense such as war awwwnow has written about the great successful 70's, 80's and 90's. Oh yes how I long for those glorious decades when we won ulster! In case ye missed it those were the decades when the standards slipped and Cavan football went to the bottom of the heap. But I suppose a simple fact like that would have to be omitted for fear it would contradict the agenda.
Terry Hyland is in charge next year and that's that. Maybe he should have stood down but he didn't so move on and support the team. Yes we need to evolve our tactics, yes we need our players back committing. There are some positives from last year, we held our own in div 2 (more than 10 years since we did that), although gutting we matched Monaghan and could have won but for some missed frees. We were also unfortunate with injuries to key players Mackey, Rory Dunne and Killian Clarke.
If we got these lads back and fit I think we could rattle Ulster this year, I genuinely think that.

benbulbenhead (Sligo) - Posts: 52 - 26/10/2015 09:22:48    1801904

Benbulbbenhead has a point. This thread says players to improve the county which we need.
I am not a fan of terry but by the looks of this thread there isn't too many players to choose from.

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 247 - 26/10/2015 10:05:19    1801907

Good post Benbulbenhead but I'd disagree about giving Ulster a rattle. Unless the draw is very kind (next year it's not) we are a bit off the pace in Ulster. You cannot expect to get lucky 3 times in a row and for us to win the 3 games it takes to win an Ulster we will at some stage have to rely on top forward play and a bit of magic. I don't see where this will come from. Hard work is very important but will only get you so far.
I'd agree that the players mentioned in this post have all been tried and tested more or less. But the players at our disposal only tell part of the story. For me a big handicap for any county manager trying to pick a panel is the quality of the Championship. I'd love to see a County Championship like they have in Kerry where every club player (if they're good enough), through amalgamations, get's to pit themselves in the main Championship. This would give county managers a better idea of who the leaders and serious footballers are. I think a lot of precious time and resources are wasted trying lads out on the county because they once kicked 8 points in a Junior game only to be found out when the bar is raised. There's only 7 games in the league to experiment so there's only so much trying out you can do. If you had a serious County Championship the lads who consistently perform in high pressure occasions might be easier to identify.
I suppose a better thread title might be "ways to improve our club scene". But if a lot of the views expressed on here are representative of our club delegates I wouldn't hold a lot of hope of clubs uniting for the benefit of county football. A lot of differences would need to be put aside and egos swallowed. I suppose if there was a golden carrot dangled it might help e.g if there was a 50K prize for the club/amalgamation who wins the championship it might get clubs attention but who would put up this money and sponsor another championship? Could we dispense with so many "hangers on" around the county team (some of the money being reported given to outside experts is a bit eye watering) and re-divert more resources to the clubs? A more streamlined fixtures schedule which give a little more respect to the club player would certainly be welcome. But like I said, this is probably for another thread.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 26/10/2015 13:52:06    1801962

Ah benbulbenhead, where have you been? It's good to see a level-headed, balanced and non-agenda poster come on the odd time.

Hartimes, I don't think time is wasted on lads who kicked eight points in a Junior Championship match. I think the management have the sense to see through that. Unfortunately some posters think otherwise. When Hyland came on board I remember there was some incredible statistic about the number of championship debutants Cavan had had over the previous ten years. It averaged out at about six per year. He looked to eliminate that by getting a group together and only adding slightly to it every year so a team, in the true sense of the word, could be developed.

Now we've heard all the pros and cons about how the team is set-up and so on but I think at least the approach is right.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 26/10/2015 14:40:01    1801970

Skelling, I didn't say management are falling into that trap. But it still perpetuates the myth that there are better players out there and this can feed hostility towards county set up from clubs, players and yes, posters :). I've seen some club members absolutely foaming at the mouth and screaming murder about Terry Hyland because their player was not on the panel. But they fail to recognise when that same player went into hiding in a Junior game of importance.
I'd like to see a Championship where everyone gets to pit themselves against everyone and there are no hiding places. There are senior club players who will never get to come up against certain county stars unless it's a challenge game. Harder to separate the wheat from the chaff when things are like this.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 26/10/2015 15:20:22    1801975

Fair point Hardtimes.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 26/10/2015 15:32:50    1801978

Hardtimes
County: Cavan
Posts: 288

1801975
Skelling, I didn't say management are falling into that trap. But it still perpetuates the myth that there are better players out there and this can feed hostility towards county set up from clubs, players and yes, posters :). I've seen some club members absolutely foaming at the mouth and screaming murder about Terry Hyland because their player was not on the panel. But they fail to recognise when that same player went into hiding in a Junior game of importance.
I'd like to see a Championship where everyone gets to pit themselves against everyone and there are no hiding places. There are senior club players who will never get to come up against certain county stars unless it's a challenge game. Harder to separate the wheat from the chaff when things are like this.

There's simply too many clubs in the county. Hard and all as it may be to digest, but if Cavan football is to ever improve, I know this is an extremely unpopular view, but some clubs will have to fold. It really is that simple. Our club championships are dire in standard, and it's very rarely a Cavan team does well in Ulster, due to the fact that our club scene is poor. In fact I don't think our county champions have ever won Ulster? What does that tell you?

If you want players playing at a higher standard, then force amalgamations among clubs in the same parish. Monaghan has 30 clubs, we have 42. Ridiculous.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1022 - 26/10/2015 16:09:03    1801991