Well said S Goldrick...., I would be one who thinks we have lots of talented players who have been let down badly by woefull management in the last couple of years.. With the right people in charge we wont be long leaving Monaghan behind us...!!!

Sean66 (Cavan) - Posts: 440 - 09/07/2015 21:05:27    1750717

To get Cavan near the top 5, I think we need a total clear out from team management to County Board, Behind every good County team there has to be a good County Board,, I don't think anyone can argue about the fact that the club football structure in Cavan is working , the County football is in huge debt, I think the County Board should have the same faith as team management if they are not performing

goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 292 - 09/07/2015 21:33:35    1750747

I'd honestly rank us around 12th to 15th. It's really hard to tell exactly where. You have the top 5 or 6 teams, then there's not much between the likes of us, Meath, Armagh, Galway, Down, Kildare, Westmeath or even Roscommon, Derry and Tyrone. I wouldn't think it a huge shock for any of these teams to beat each other.

People talk about the margins between us and the top teams. In my opinion, with all our players available, i.e. Givney, Keating, R. Dunne, K. Clarke, etc, we are 2, maybe 3, players off being a top 6 or 8 team.
If we had a top class forward (I mean of the McManus, Brogan, or McBrearty mold) and a dominating midfielder (G mac and Corr are good players but they never dominate midfield for a whole game, albeit they are capable of doing so imo) we would compete almost any team in the country. We'd be a comfortable Div.1 team.
That's not a huge margin.

SamuraiBlue (Cavan) - Posts: 28 - 10/07/2015 08:12:41    1750776

S Golderick ......Let me give you the proper reality check you crave. We came into the Roscommon game at home on an upward curve after the London win . Roscommon on the other hand were at their lowest after losing the spine of their team through injury after been over run by an average Sligo team then have to travel away to Breffni. An early goal gave us the start most teams want then to cut a long story short down hill for the remaining 67 minutes. Ended up the poorest Cavan display in a long long time especially after so much expectation . That begs me to question players and management. The first big question is why did Killian Clarke need to start in Ruislip? I agree he might need game time after missing the Monaghan but did he need to start against London. My answer is no. The subs used in Ruislip apart from McEnroe and Mackey bore no resemblance to the subs used against Roscommon . Why not? It's not pre season it's not a game time exercise as it looked like against Roscommon. I'd also query the instructions some players get. For example fergal Flanagan and McVitty seem to be constantly looking to the sideline for inspiration . We are not even close to Monaghan despite the score line . On a good day we are about 5 points behind them. Fermanagh Armagh Derry have all past us out in Ulster rankings and at best we are about joint 7th with Down and only Antrim worse than us. That's the reality of our position in Ulster alone. There only 1 connacht side we better than and that's Letrim . 3 Munster sides we better than and that's Waterford Clare Limerick and in Lenister Louth Carlow Offaly Wicklow Wexford and maybe Laois are all that's worse than us. So at most there 11/12 teams worse than us. That barely puts us in the top 20 when you break it down.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 10/07/2015 11:25:25    1750894

Lads, there is no doubt the county has young talented players, however they need men and leaders to win championship matches which comes from rootless management and experience. From the Roscommon match there was no leaders on the pitch to drive the team on, I don't think Hyland has enough guile to adopt a good game plan or get the best out of the players. How many times now have we seen Cavan fall flat on their feet. I can't say that the players are not there, it is the way they are been coached and handled. I seen Paddy McBrearty in the U21 ulster final a couple of years ago, I didn't think he was going to be the player he is now, we had forwards shining above him that night-where are they now? The structure of developing players and especially forwards is absent in the current county senior set-up example of this is Martin Dunne who has gone backward over the pass number of years he should be developed into a fine player by now with his ability.

McGiolla (Cavan) - Posts: 41 - 10/07/2015 11:52:03    1750916

Dinner has definitely gone backwards but I'd say it's a lot to do with tactics and relieving quality ball. Dunne is of no threat outside the 21m line. He's a poacher who plays on instincts . If any man was needed to play off Argue well Dunnie is yer man . Quality low or chest high ball to either side is what Dunnie needs. And he's a corner forward no a full forward. He can play off a big man or in a 2man full forward line. But the slow ponderous ball into the full forward line gives a team with a sweeper time to double up in Dunnie and that's him snuffed out.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 10/07/2015 12:16:38    1750933

cavanman47
County: Cavan
Posts: 1272

1750499 eduardo66


that's far too simplistic a view to be taking IMO


what had Tyrone done outside of Ulster prior to 2003?

I presume your talking about before winning the All Ireland in 2003, from 1990 what they've won outside Ulster was

National Leagues,2 (2002 & 2003)
All Ireland U 21's 4 (91,92,2000 & 2001)
All Ireland Minor 2 (98 & 01)

On top of that in Ulster since 1990 they won 4 senior titles,7 U21 titles and 5 minor titles before winning the All Ireland in 2003!!.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 228 - 10/07/2015 16:00:44    1751115

i was referring to success at senior level outside of ulster as eduardo has dismissed our underage success as irrelevant.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4135 - 10/07/2015 16:15:08    1751126

1 Dublin
2 Kerry
3 Donegal
4 Mayo
5 Cork
6 Monaghan
7 Tyrone
8 Galway
9 Derry
10 Roscommon
11 Armagh
12 Meath
14 Down
15 Kildare
16 Westmeath
17 Fermanagh
18 Limerick
19 Tipperary
20 Wateford
21 Offaly
21 Laois
21 Sligo
24 Clare
24 Cavan
24 Antrim
27 Longford
28 Leitrim
29 Wicklow
30 Wexford
31 Louth
32 London
33 New York
34 Kilkenny

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 10/07/2015 18:39:56    1751188

cavanman47 where did I say our underage success was irrelevant, you are clearly trying to muddy the waters. I actually said our recent underage success was a step in the right direction, just that people should not count on it to translate to senior success. Unlike Tyrone, Cavan did not manage to win All Ireland U21's, or Minor All Ireland's, that suggests that the crop of players they promoted to their seniors were of a higher level than we have, and when you consider Tyrone had a senior team at a higher level than the current Cavan team, to add their U21 All Ireland winner to. Just as they have at this moment in time a senior team of a higher caliber than Cavan have, to add players from this years All Ireland U21 winner to.
It will take years on consistent success at under age level - including actually winning underage all ireland's for Cavan to have real hope of becoming one of the elite county teams. Also need to be able to keep the best of the senior players on the panel for a good six or seven years at a time.

When Martin McHugh was Cavan manager he was of the view that it was vital for Cavan to establish themselves as a Division 1 team, he felt that to have the real belief needed to win Ulster's on a regular basis and to really contest for All Ireland's, you have to be a Division 1 team year in year out. How many non Division 1 teams have won an All Ireland, or even a provincial title in the last 20 years. Too many Cavan fans expect us to run before we can walk.

eduardo66 (Cavan) - Posts: 64 - 10/07/2015 19:13:20    1751198

Mowbar explain how fermanagh tipp limerick waterford or offaly amongst others are better than cavan. I have yet to see a post that is not filled with obviously personally motivated spite from you!

sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 542 - 10/07/2015 19:48:06    1751213

sceptical
County: Cavan
Posts: 233

1751213
Mowbar explain how fermanagh tipp limerick waterford or offaly amongst others are better than cavan. I have yet to see a post that is not filled with obviously personally motivated spite from you!
The question was asked where one thought Cavan were scepitical and from my own observation and opinion of what has happened over the last 4 years and where we are going I even found it difficult to place Cavan any higher other than where I have them. It's a sad reflection of where we stand today in my eyes, let me tell you like many many others.
I sadly have followed Cavan through thick and thin all over the country but this has to be the worst Cavan team in all my years supporting them. Why not place Fermanagh above Cavan Pete McGrath is doing a great job with what he has at his disposal. Cavan will struggle against Limerick likewise Offaly and if Offaly get their in house issues sorted they will be hard to beat by Cavan anytime. Tipp and Limerick are there and deserve to be there and have the young lads coming through, you might take time to reflect going down the road. The beating Waterford gave us working on a shoe string several years ago is still very raw in my gullet.
Give me something positive to write about and I will say it as it is.

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 12/07/2015 08:57:41    1751652

Mowbar, worse than the team that got trounced by Cork in 2010? The team that conceded four goals to Antrim in a game they needed to win to be sure of surviving in Division 3?

I've watched Cavan for about 23 years now and this is nowhere near their worst team.

You see I don't believe you're being genuine. A team that got promoted to Division 2 and then maintained their position there albeit with a narrow defeat to a strong team like Monaghan and then lose to a decent Roscommon team with a man less. Compare that to the dark days of Tommy Carr. Not to mention the teams that didn't win an Ulster Championship game for how many years in a row in the early nineties.

Either you're being disingenuous or you've a very bad memory.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 12/07/2015 11:36:36    1751704

Skelling
County: USA
Posts: 35

1751704
Mowbar, worse than the team that got trounced by Cork in 2010? The team that conceded four goals to Antrim in a game they needed to win to be sure of surviving in Division 3?

I've watched Cavan for about 23 years now and this is nowhere near their worst team.

You see I don't believe you're being genuine. A team that got promoted to Division 2 and then maintained their position there albeit with a narrow defeat to a strong team like Monaghan and then lose to a decent Roscommon team with a man less. Compare that to the dark days of Tommy Carr. Not to mention the teams that didn't win an Ulster Championship game for how many years in a row in the early nineties.

Either you're being disingenuous or you've a very bad memory.

I wish people like you would look at the broader picture, this Cavan team at best and a moderate intermediate team and are not good enough plain and simple. When it comes to the business end we are found wanting plain and simple. The team are not good enough I have difficulty picking 5 players from the present 34 that are there to say they might make it on the subs bench with the top ten teams. After that there is a possibility.
The best thing hyland can do is watch as many matches as he can this coming championship and pick on merit the potential players that can drive on and forget his pet's. Off load the baggage the backroom staff anyone else that don't have vision. Start the likes of Barry Reilly top scorer and 100% man of the match at last years senior final but thats history. He came on against Roscommon score 3 hit the post with another three wides and stopped a certain goal for Roscommon for players like him left on the bench you have to question managements intentions to move on.

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 12/07/2015 12:19:01    1751718

None of that deals with the issue that you said it was the worst Cavan team you've ever seen. I wish you would deal with what I actually said.

And the irony in your pointing out Barry's impressive cameo yet telling me I should look at the bigger picture.

Barry has had plenty of opportunities to claim a starting place and hasn't grabbed it, and that's just in the games that they've played. I can only assume Hyland would know better, seeing him in training.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 12/07/2015 13:37:25    1751747

None of that deals with the issue that you said it was the worst Cavan team you've ever seen. I wish you would deal with what I actually said.

And the irony in your pointing out Barry's impressive cameo yet telling me I should look at the bigger picture.

Barry has had plenty of opportunities to claim a starting place and hasn't grabbed it, and that's just in the games that they've played. I can only assume Hyland would know better, seeing him in training.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 12/07/2015 13:43:41    1751752

Answer the question mowbar. How does waterford been smashed by tipp put them ahead of us. Likewise the biffo's losing to longford and kildare. When have tipperary or limerick last beaten a top 10 team? What are your criteria for placing div 3&4 teams who have not played us in two or more years ahead of us. I have called you out as a bitter possibly gilted former player. Answer the original question. How have you ranked cavan who finished in the top 12 of league below lower teams who exited the champ at same stage as us. Answer or admit that your origional rant was made out of spite not football knowledge.

sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 542 - 12/07/2015 15:43:37    1751806

sceptical
County: Cavan
Posts: 234

1751806
Answer the question mowbar. How does waterford been smashed by tipp put them ahead of us. Likewise the biffo's losing to longford and kildare. When have tipperary or limerick last beaten a top 10 team? What are your criteria for placing div 3&4 teams who have not played us in two or more years ahead of us. I have called you out as a bitter possibly gilted former player. Answer the original question. How have you ranked cavan who finished in the top 12 of league below lower teams who exited the champ at same stage as us. Answer or admit that your origional rant was made out of spite not football knowledge.

So you say my opinion is and my positioning is wrong? I have placed Cavan where they deserve to be take it on the chin. I don't rate this current team they are brutal and most in Cavan know it. League positioning means nothing when it comes to championship football but while you are there 7 points from 7 games is just not good enough.
Should it stay as things are Cavan can prove me wrong when they will be playing Tipp and Limerick in 2017 or sooner. Tipp for a hurling county have come on leaps and bounds and are improving all the time where as we are on the downward spiral. If you cannot see this sadly I have a gut feeling you don't watch Cavan home or away. Or are you like many others who cannot see beyond the blue and white.
I don't have to justify my positioning like the other poster who placed them in 16th it's an opinion and I am sticking with it.

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 12/07/2015 16:38:18    1751832

As you said above offaly would beat cavan if!! They sort their house out. In other words you have no reason why you placed them or others above cavan. I agree that you probably go to games as i do but you go in the hope that your own county will lose. Ur the personification of begrudgery. As i said before stop wasting your money on a team who you think are useless.

sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 542 - 12/07/2015 17:20:39    1751854

I don't think mowbar is a Cavan man, cork perhaps.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 12/07/2015 19:14:25    1751994