What can be done to improve fairness and consistantancy in refs

asitis (Cavan) - Posts: 233 - 10/02/2015 13:00:07    1692056

Refs should be banned for 3 games for poor refereeing.
There should be a panel which examines their performance after a weekend of games. The two teams involved in the game should fill in an assessment sheet on the ref's performance too pointing out were they saw bad refereeing.

It has been the single biggest problem with our games for years.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 10/02/2015 18:50:01    1692216

This is a beyond stupid thread. Yeah lets have both managers submit their complaints about ref after game. Sure that will defo work. Gets real lads.

sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 542 - 10/02/2015 19:15:24    1692228

The standard of refeering has never been worse but the Gaa stand behind them no matter how badley they preform... The top brass were discusted with the Mayo supporter who got on the pitch and had to be coaksed off by his daughter because six stewards couldnt hold him but they failed to see the reason he came on..? Mayo were robbed by the worst ref I have ever saw at that level yet the Gaa failed to see his wrongdoings.... Mayo and all counties are well able to accept defeat but in a case like this ( and Louth ) it drove the supporters over the edge...and why..? A blatent bad referee... There are only 2 rounds of the league gone and there are numerous complaints about refs... Sort it out Gaa...after all they are the only ones on the field getting paid but they are not doing their jobs properly...!!!

Sean66 (Cavan) - Posts: 440 - 10/02/2015 19:19:09    1692236

I don't think banning referees is the answer for having poor performances. I agree more needs to be done and a panel of assessors needs to be put in place where they assess the referees performance levels but ale to give referees areas for improvement that they work on. At the end of the day referees need games no different to players in order to improve their game. This is the only way to gain consistency. There needs to be more training days and workshops allocated towards referees on how to approach all scenarios within a game. A panel should be made available and be able to provide videos to refs on how to improve decision making and the overall handling of a game. Also this panel should ensure that referees have the opportunities to speak with both teams in the dressing room before a match so that both teams are fully aware of how the game will be handled and the referee should be able to reassure them on what will be penalised and what will not. This is the only way going forward.

lifebuoy (Cavan) - Posts: 628 - 10/02/2015 19:24:28    1692240

I think there should be a committee setup that goes out and discovers new refereeing talent and then head hunts said talent . And who else should head this committee but our very own Tomsmith . He has form in this area after all!!!!

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 10/02/2015 19:54:04    1692255

I think there should be a committee setup that goes out and discovers new refereeing talent and then head hunts said talent . And who else should head this committee but our very own Tomsmith . He has form in this area after all!!!!

Hardtimes of 182

Yes Hardtimes I feel that with the speed that the modern game moves at, particularly senior football in Cavan we need very referees.
I have no problem in assisting ant committee in spotting talent.
Indeed I feel that on the day of a County final or indeed for the past ten years on County final day a lot of Gaa people that seemed to have a profiency in all matters GAA pertaining to the rules were very Vocal against the Gaels.
So come forward all you young and fair and lets hear you blow your whistle in the air
To call a free or wave play on
From start to finish you are/can be the referee man

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3275 - 11/02/2015 21:04:11    1692663

Tomsmith you like the rest have not got a clue. If you want to find quality referees just sit in the stand any day there is a match in Breffni park and you will be surprised by the quality of referees there are sitting there especially the blinkered ones it would do your heart good to listen to the s***e comments.
Yes the standard of referee is diabolical and was shown to it's high standard at the county final.

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 11/02/2015 21:33:48    1692681

Has anyone on here ever been a ref would be interested to hear their opinion on the subject

asitis (Cavan) - Posts: 233 - 11/02/2015 21:56:39    1692703

Tomsmith here

Mowbar I agree with you that a lot of nonsenses is spoken/roared at County finals,( but as the great Mrs Tomsmith was often heard to say you have to look at lightening and listen to thunder) over the years. I can say that no Referee has influenced the outcome of the last 9 County finals that Cavan Gaels won. What we lost is for another days debate.
My little ode about being a good referee sums it up, an dI will add another today " Blow you whistle and point up or down and half the spectators are calling you blind"

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3275 - 12/02/2015 10:09:41    1692743

tomsmith you have got to be joking I take it you missed the 2014 final then ???

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 12/02/2015 12:00:01    1692806

Mowbar

Tomsmith here sent from my eyephone

While I appreciate your anxiety to see Cavans greatest team for the last 20 years being beaten, I will say that I would prefer that particular games are not discussed as that pinpoints a Referee.
While referees in the past showed no empathy towards Cavan Gaels I feel that with a more educated bunch of referees we have not suffered that many injustices in the past 12 years just a few

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3275 - 12/02/2015 15:13:44    1692935

What goes around comes around. I remember Gowna not getting anything out of the referee in the 98 quarter final versus the gales. They were robbed of a potential 5 in a row! The team of the 90's.

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts: 369 - 12/02/2015 16:02:30    1692967

Asitis , I would be interested myself to hear the opinions of any referee as well . The standard is bad but then it's a thankless job not made any easier by top brass . The black card rule is typical - instead of enforcing existing rules they skirt the issue and give the referee more to do . Easier to give the referee more cards than to actually try and address say the tackle or steps rule . The suspensions and appeals process should be overhauled as well . Must be frustrating for referees to have their decisions undermined all the time .
As for the referees themselves - I really don't know what can be done to improve standards . Punishment is a no go - you'd have no referees left . More training ? I don't know - they call it how they see it . I'm sure lack of knowledge of the rules is not an issue with them so they'll continue to call it how they see it . I definitely think if they were given more respect you might encourage more to take up the job so that in itself would improve things - more competition in refereeing would mean a higher standard . Personally speaking though I would not be against the idea of myself refereeing a match but I can tell you categorically , I would never ever take up the job of referee - it's not a nice job . So my hat's off to them - I will admit that my frustration with them sometimes boils over and leads to the odd vocal outburst but I do have a grudging admiration for them .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 12/02/2015 18:39:04    1693065

Hardtimes....You are totally correct when u say the top brass forever changing the rules are makeing the refs job harderand harder.... I do feel however that some of them dont help themselves by their decision makeing...tyey either blow up too quickly or let things get out of hand too much...! Most of them like to be in the limelight..a good one should never be seen... I also feel linsmen and umpires dont help out enough either...??

Sean66 (Cavan) - Posts: 440 - 12/02/2015 19:55:11    1693104

That's very true Sean66 , some of their decision making is just daft at times but how do you change that ? Training will only go so far - when the pressure is on people will just revert to type . I don't believe referees make bad decisions deliberately , it's just some of them don't function under pressure and are not cut out to be good referees . It then becomes a vicious cycle , the more bad decisions they make the pressure from the crowd cranks up a notch which leads to more bad decisions . How do you make the job more appealing to attract more individuals to the job and essentially a better class of ref . The rules were not a problem for Pat McEnaney . Like I said before - the idea of refereeing might appeal to me in an ideal world , might be quite enjoyable . But the reality is I would never do the job - not worth the grief . How do you change attitudes ? Most people I know would never be a ref and the reason is that there's too much grief attached .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 12/02/2015 20:46:16    1693129

As a former referee I was interested when I came across this post.
in my opinion having refereed in both hurling and football for about 20 years unless we deal with reality things will never change.
lets look at the facts. there are three types of referees mainly. 1. those who genuinely do it for a love of the game and feel they can make a difference. 2. those who do it for the power (in many cases they never really played the game) 3. Those who do it for the money.
From my experience these groups are broadly evenly enough represented and all of them officiate at club levels.
At intercounty levels you generally only get groups 1 & 2 represented because group 3 will not put in the time required in courses or fitness as there isn't the financial return for it. (Things like rounding up umpires etc are also not very popular with them.) But the reality is that they are needed as there isn't enough referees without them.
So what is wrong with referees -
1 not enough people doing it for the right reason (as demonstrated above)
2. GAA is difficult to referee fundamentally we don't have a clearly defined tackle therefore many of the crucial decisions are down to interpretation - which leads to inconsistency.
3.Very few players/managers/ supporters & pundits actually know the rules. I was watching league sunday at the weekend and Dermot Early did a piece on the mayo goal which he said should have been a square ball.... he was wrong and doesn't obviously know the rules.
4. Its often the easy option to blame the referee.

I'm not saying that refereeing is good. I think it should be way better but the amount of resources that goes into training and recruiting referees is pitiful. also there are antiquated rules as to how referees can progress and when the have to retire. for example forcing pat McEneany to retire when he was clearly still the best football ref in the country is just ridiculous.

Im not sure if ive addressed any of the issues you wanted but its just the rant of an old retied ref that would like to see some improvement.

onthemoney3 (Wexford) - Posts: 7 - 13/02/2015 12:35:54    1693242

onthemoney3
County: Wexford
Posts: 5


Dermot questioned the decision as did I and many others and he accepted the explanation .

Can you explain to me as I still think it was a square goal why it was allowed.
He was in the square when the ball was kicked
He was in the square when the ball came off the post
He was in the square when he picked the ball up
He was in the square when he put it in the back of the net.
Can you explain why it was allowed please as a former ref of both hurling and football and not from Cavan I will respect your reply for you would know about hurling anyway

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 13/02/2015 13:59:02    1693274

The rule governing square ball is 4.9 - exception (i)to the rule I have set out below

If an attacking player legally enters the
small rectangle, and the ball is played
from that area but is returned before the
attacking player has time to leave the
area, provided he does not play the ball
or interfere with the defence, a foul is not
committed.

This is exactly what happened on sunday - Cillian o Connor challenged for the ball when it was played in. It broke out to another mayo player who immediately shot and hit the post the rebound came back to o connor who hadn't time to get out of the square he caught it and scored. No square ball right decision.
If pundits are going to highlight refereeing errors that's fine - anything that improves refereeing is good - but it does madden me when they get things wrong like this.

onthemoney3 (Wexford) - Posts: 7 - 13/02/2015 14:35:34    1693287

onthemoney3
County: Wexford
Posts: 6

You left out one incident that happened regarding the goal did he C. O"Connor not pick the ball from the ground first ??????.

By the way I did not comment about the performance of the referee, when I don't understand why a referee has made a decision that I am not sure of I normally send an email to Croke Park who I have to say alway's give me a fair reply. I don't comment on referees as a rule for most don't warrant a comment.

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 13/02/2015 14:56:00    1693293