supermon
County: Monaghan
Posts: 770

1717045
I doubt it somehow. I actually think cavan have a great group of players, but I do think ye would do better with a change of management. Usually i would be cautious against ye, but unless we have a shocker, which can happen to any team, we will have too much for ye, especially after playing division 1 teams all year. Im not sure Cavan have really progressed since we met in championship in 2013, but i feel that we have.

Exactly. Man for man, we're every bit as talented as Monaghan. Ok, McManus is a class apart. But everywhere else we're much of a muchness. I've seen Rory Dunne put the likes of Kieran Donaghy and Sean Cavanagh in his pocket. One of the best full backs around. In Mackey we have a player who would compete for a place on any team. A brilliant midfielder in McKiernan. (Keating and Givney played for Ulster). And a host of other players who've won numerous underage titles for Cavan as well as representing the top colleges in Ireland. We need a new direction.

Also that's a fair point about Monaghan making progress since 2013. Monaghan have done their talking on the pitch. E.g. Tyrone were a bogey team for yous for years. Now yous are beating them consistently.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1022 - 24/04/2015 17:49:45    1717227

Ned_Stormcrow not much point in having a great full back when he keeps deserting his post. I wonder who is telling him to do this, strange tactics we turn a defender into an attacking forward and our forwards as retreating players to look for the runner who else but our full back.
We are not glut with player's to fill the gap he leaves and the end result we are found wanting when the break breaks down.

The management are sticking to players who just don't or are not able to cut it at inter county level the sooner they realise this for Cavan's sake the better.

People say get rid of the management is there any point I would only agree to doing this if we could bring back the player's that have walked away over the last three years otherwise leave it as it is for they will not cost as much if an outsider were to be brought in but then we have a fella called McHale anyone know what his roll is ??

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 24/04/2015 19:35:11    1717251

The question of the same players gettin chance after chance has made us very predictable so Monaghan will very easily set up to deal with all positions. The loss of so many players from the panel is a shame and to have had so many players withdraw begs the question ,why? In any team situation Players are not goin to respond well to any selector been negative or verbally abusive or underminin, that is no good in any team and looks like many of that team have had a good measure of confidence knocked out of them. Buildin a team up to believ in themselves is a managers job, if he has a selector undermine that then as a manager he is in trouble and is badly advised. The Cavan team selection is stale, rigid and heavily biased in favour of a favoured number of players,
The team to play Monaghan will be, Gilsenan, Flanagan, Dunne, Mc Loughlin, Clarke, Flanagan, DJ, Mc Kiernan, Corr, M.Reilly, Mc Vitty, B.Reilly, Dunne, Argue, Mackey
There's at least 5 or 6 places on that team gone to these regulars first regardless of talent or performance. We didn't experiment enough at all in the league and the reluctance to take players of the bench to give them a worthwhile amount of game time has left a run in to the championship with Cavan not actually knowin their best 15.
As a GAA supporter, it has been interestin to watch O Rourkes development of what is a very fine Monaghan team a good blend of experience and youth . It will be a tough one . Good luck to all the lads who have hung in with it in the panel. Go out and give it your best, ye always do, just hope the selectors and management give all of you the respect you deserve .

shannon414 (Cavan) - Posts: 228 - 24/04/2015 21:51:29    1717271

Mowbar, time to put up or shut up. Tell us 5 players that are not county material that the management keep persisting with and more importantly tell me the 5 players that are not on the panel who are county standard and that the manager should bring in. Please do not pick players like Keating & Givney who are not available for selection. I've set you a challenge, are you man enough to deliver.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 25/04/2015 08:41:11    1717277

Mowbar, the game has evolved. Positions mean nothing anymore in Gaelic Football. The reason Rory gets up the field so much is because he is a good ball carrier and is strong and mobile. Frank McGlynn of Donegal regularly swung over points and rattled in goals for them in 2012, and he wore number 2 on his back. The days of defenders defending and adding nothing to the attack are long gone. So I wouldn't mind that.

The problem is that Cavan's management have no attacking strategy. Defensively yes, we make it hard for teams, we close space. But once we're in possession we're not very efficient with it.

24th of May will tell us all we need to know about how far we've progressed/regressed. Strangely the league hasn't given us much insight as we were hit and miss.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1022 - 25/04/2015 11:48:09    1717321

No McEnroe in that team Shannon. Our best player this year.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 25/04/2015 13:29:27    1717344

Come in Mowbar. You haven't the courage to answer my question. You know what they say about empty vessels!

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 25/04/2015 17:12:29    1717401

I said that will be the team, not my team. I would play Mc Enroe but therin lies the problem, there's the regulars who have to get their places regardless, I agree Mc Enroe has been immense.

shannon414 (Cavan) - Posts: 228 - 25/04/2015 19:36:42    1717422

Shannon414.....if what you say is true as regards team selection then we allready a beaten docket....

Sean66 (Cavan) - Posts: 440 - 25/04/2015 20:45:37    1717443

shannon414
County: Cavan
Posts: 122

The team to play Monaghan will be, Gilsenan, Flanagan, Dunne, Mc Loughlin, Clarke, Flanagan, DJ, Mc Kiernan, Corr, M.Reilly, Mc Vitty, B.Reilly, Dunne, Argue, Mackey

why do you tink they will pick barry reilly instead of niall McDermott. I can't see it.

i think the team they will pick will be: (assuming all are available).
Gilsenan, R.Flanagan, Dunne, Mc Loughlin, McEnroe, F.Flanagan, DJ, Gearoid, K.Clarke, M.Reilly, Mc Vitty,Argue, McDermott, Dunne, Mackey.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5356 - 25/04/2015 21:06:33    1717451

McEnroe will undoubtedly start against Monaghan, as will Niall McDermott. Barry Reilly almost certainly won't.

To those suggesting we have passengers on the team and better players on the bench... Can someone tell me who these lads are? As for the players who didn't commit this year, Keating is the only one who registers as a real loss. Most of the rest were journeymen (no disrespect intended) and couldn't break into the team. All left on good terms.

As for favourites, I don't buy that at all. McEnroe came on against Laois and swung the game, started thereafter when fit. Dunne did the same against Galway, won back his starting place. Bud showed well against Galway, won his place in the next couple of games based on that. Corr came in when Killian got injured, and while Killian wasn't fit for selection for the rest of the League, you can guarantee Mossy has given management a selection headache for the Monaghan game, Farrelly is the same.

I don't think we'll beat Monaghan because we lack real class in the inside forward line to break down Monaghan's defence. They have progressed a lot in the last couple of years, faster than we have. We'll be needing a slice of luck to beat them, who knows we might get it somewhere along the line. Looking forward to it.

JonSmith (Cavan) - Posts: 1451 - 25/04/2015 21:16:47    1717458

fredflint
County: Cavan
Posts: 516

1717401
Come in Mowbar. You haven't the courage to answer my question. You know what they say about empty vessels!

I have replied but as usual hoganstand will not post it. So what can I do ???? I have the courage for sure.

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 25/04/2015 21:26:01    1717463

JonSmith
County: Cavan
Posts: 1259

As for the players who didn't commit this year, Keating is the only one who registers as a real loss. Most of the rest were journeymen


David Givney included? We must be in a good place when 1 of our "journeymen" starts at midfield alongside Sean Cavanagh for Ulster!

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4135 - 26/04/2015 09:27:42    1717481

Mowbar, Maybe be nice and they might post what you say. For simplicity sake could you do the following. Players you'd remove from panel = 1,2,3,4,5 and county standard players not on panel that should be added = 1,2,3,4,5. I'm sure moderator would have no issue with that.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 26/04/2015 09:58:21    1717483

cavanman47
County: Cavan
Posts: 1108

1717481
JonSmith
County: Cavan
Posts: 1259

As for the players who didn't commit this year, Keating is the only one who registers as a real loss. Most of the rest were journeymen

David Givney included? We must be in a good place when 1 of our "journeymen" starts at midfield alongside Sean Cavanagh for Ulster!

Representing Ulster means absolutely nothing. Givney wasn't making the Cavan team even when fit at the end of last year. Before Gearoid got injured Givney was our 3rd choice midfielder. Can't name a single game where he dominated in the middle, think he had one or two good games in the League a couple of years ago at full forward. I'd put him behind Givney, Alan Clarke and Josh Hayes in terms of loss to the team. Along with Kevin Tierney as someone who supporters seem to glorify without much justification.

JonSmith (Cavan) - Posts: 1451 - 26/04/2015 11:31:35    1717497

Think that's a bit harsh jonsmith. He for example was very good against Derry in back door. Certainly last year he was poor but he had a lot of ball played. I think the break will do him good and he will be an asset when he comes back.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 26/04/2015 11:54:58    1717503

JonSmith
County: Cavan
Posts: 1260


To those suggesting we have passengers on the team and better players on the bench... Can someone tell me who these lads are? As for the players who didn't commit this year, Keating is the only one who registers as a real loss. Most of the rest were journeymen (no disrespect intended) and couldn't break into the team. All left on good terms.


Absolute garbage. You're fanatical support of the apparently infallible Cavan management has skewed your view to the extent that you're insulting players who decided to pack it in. Shameful. It's almost unfathomable how wrong you are.

Journeymen. Tell us Jon, how many more journeymen are there in that Cavan panel? And at what stage does a player stop becoming a journeyman?

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1022 - 26/04/2015 12:21:49    1717506

he was excellent against Monaghan in Clones also and against Armagh in Breffni in the same year.

He struggled to get fully fit last year and withdrew from the panel as a result of long-standing injury problems.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4135 - 26/04/2015 12:36:07    1717511

I was just about to say that Fred . I think you are being a bit harsh Jon . He was excellent against Derry and we faltered a bit when he went off . When he came back on again after treatment he added the bit of power and drive to set us up . Brolly I think it was gave a lot of credit to Mackey coming back on for our victory but I thought at the time Givney swung the game .
Having said all that he wasn't exactly setting the world alight overall for us and it wasn't very obvious where to fit him in . He was getting a lot of stick from people too on his performances but you cannot deny he'd be a huge asset for us and if he wasn't making the team he would be first man off the bench .

Keating is a huge loss too but he also was taking a lot of stick from people last year and his performances weren't hectic . I think it goes to show the fickleness of fans . They slag players off and say they're not good enough but when they leave the panel head's should roll as they immediately become all stars .

Clarke and Hayes are losses too and it would be great to still have them involved . I'm actually surprised how little recognition Alan Clarke gets . People on here were saying he was holding us back and were pimping Moynagh as a much better option because he could solo a ball . There is no comparison between Alan Clarke and anyone on this panel in terms of reading a game and holding position for cover to a full back line . He was absolutely pivotal in our change of fortunes as regards our defensive resurgence and not conceding goals . If he had a yard more pace he would be a household name .

Tierney is someone who I would have liked to see more of and who we could be doing with now . I hear what you're saying that he may not have showed enough but I think he was messed around with a bit and maybe got his confidence knocked . His treatment in 2013 particularly annoyed me . He never got a look-in in the league when there was ample opportunity . Then with 10 minutes to go against Monaghan in a big game that was drifting away from us he was thrown in the deep end . That would have been a tall order for even the most experienced top forward . Unsurprisingly he sank and didn't get a sniff again that year . There is no evidence to suggest from subsequent performances that he is the answer to our woes but I would have liked to see him get a better shot at it .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 26/04/2015 13:18:31    1717523

We got wiped at midfield in the Armagh game 2 years ago, luckily Armagh had set up naively and we got away with it. To his credit, that was one of Givney's better games (despite osing the battle for primary possession) and he supplied the ball for a few of Dunne's scores, into miles of wide open space though it has to be said.
The next game against Fermanagh he got one outstanding catch at the start of the game, went missing thereafter as we lost the midfield battle.
He contributed to the wasteful shooting that lost us the game against Monaghan, had a decent game against Derry on a day that everyone played well (disagree with previous poster I think it was Mackey and Martin Reilly and Argue when he came on that won us the game) he was poor against London (as was mostly everyone else to be fair) and was miles out of his depth against Kerry. He contributed more mis placed passes and handling errors to the Cavan's play than anything else.
That's my personal opinion, nothing against the lad, he came into a shambles of a set up at a young age, had he been coming through a few years later I think he'd be a better player. Hopefully he can regain fitness and do well with Ballymun and Cavan if he comes back.

I have seen nothing from Givney that makes me wish he was still with the squad. Mossy Corr is a much better midfielder. That has nothing to do with my view on Cavan's management, I'm simply saying that people are bemoaning the loss of players when in truth there's only one that is a tangible loss to the team.

Keating is the obvious big loss, he's not in the class of McManus but he put in some outstanding displays in a Cavan jersey. Alan Clarke is also a loss but given that our defence is fairly solid, his loss isn't felt as sharply as Keating.

Ned if I'm so "unfathomably" wrong could you maybe name me a few reasons why Givney's loss is being felt? And please please don't mention the words "Ulster Team" or "Sigerson".. Also I never suggested the management was infallible, personally I thought Josh Hayes was very hard done by last year which was entirely management's fault.

JonSmith (Cavan) - Posts: 1451 - 26/04/2015 14:40:23    1717545