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Cavan Forum

National League 2020

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Replying To MadgeKing: "Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. After all, those so called stars were all on the pitch for Cavan's last 2 championship matches, destroyed in both. The current lads are the ones training hard and giving it a go. Support is needed most after results like last night. We knew it was coming. So stop dreaming about the 'great' crop of players that never was and thrown in with the lads brave enough to stick around." Gilseanan , Flanagan , Dunne , Clarke , Mc Enroe , Rehill , D Reilly , A clarke ,Argue , Mc Dermott, Givney , Keating , Dunne , Hayes . (Moynagh - Mc Vitty ) that's some of who left. Do you not think the question should be asked is why our best doesn't want to play for Cavan . Monaghan doesn't have the same problem with player retention. Last night in Armagh was embarrassing. Everybody who goes to games is behind the Cavan players on the field ,unfortunately a lot of them is a Div 3 standard footballer . Every year the same old story Cavan has to rebuild because players walk . goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 292 - 26/01/2020 12:24:02 2262448 Link
Replying To goonie: "Gilseanan , Flanagan , Dunne , Clarke , Mc Enroe , Rehill , D Reilly , A clarke ,Argue , Mc Dermott, Givney , Keating , Dunne , Hayes . (Moynagh - Mc Vitty ) that's some of who left. Do you not think the question should be asked is why our best doesn't want to play for Cavan . Monaghan doesn't have the same problem with player retention. Last night in Armagh was embarrassing. Everybody who goes to games is behind the Cavan players on the field ,unfortunately a lot of them is a Div 3 standard footballer . Every year the same old story Cavan has to rebuild because players walk ." Stop telling the truth and talking sense Goonie, the red thumb brigade will be along any moment now to tell you you're too negative. Because if we just "get behind the lads" and "hope for the best", we're "not that far away". Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 406 - 26/01/2020 12:53:57 2262460 Link
The reason so many players leave is because they know there's no chance of winning anything important like an Ulster title. That was laid bare last season. You simply couldn't, in good faith and conscience, encourage a youngster in Cavan to focus on an inter-county career in GAA, when other sports like rugby, soccer and Australian rules offer a genuine chance at success. And that's where I predict things will end up, parents know that Cavan are not going to be winning Uster titles anytime soon, and I mean, even at club level there is no chance of provincial success. So other sports will move in and fill the void. It's simple human nature, nobody wants to be associated with failed brands, and let's face it, after half a century of failure, that's where we're at. Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 406 - 26/01/2020 13:02:09 2262461 Link
Replying To Cavan_Shambles: "The reason so many players leave is because they know there's no chance of winning anything important like an Ulster title. That was laid bare last season. You simply couldn't, in good faith and conscience, encourage a youngster in Cavan to focus on an inter-county career in GAA, when other sports like rugby, soccer and Australian rules offer a genuine chance at success. And that's where I predict things will end up, parents know that Cavan are not going to be winning Uster titles anytime soon, and I mean, even at club level there is no chance of provincial success. So other sports will move in and fill the void. It's simple human nature, nobody wants to be associated with failed brands, and let's face it, after half a century of failure, that's where we're at." You will find there are more players sticking at it than leaving. And your point on not encouraging a young person to play inter county because you won't win anything is a disgrace. Maybe encourage a young person to play if they enjoy football in conjunction with work/study for a well balanced life style. Cavan may not have won much but they have produced a lot of great young men and that can be just as important. Views (Cavan) - Posts: 5 - 26/01/2020 13:27:14 2262474 Link
Replying To goonie: "Gilseanan , Flanagan , Dunne , Clarke , Mc Enroe , Rehill , D Reilly , A clarke ,Argue , Mc Dermott, Givney , Keating , Dunne , Hayes . (Moynagh - Mc Vitty ) that's some of who left. Do you not think the question should be asked is why our best doesn't want to play for Cavan . Monaghan doesn't have the same problem with player retention. Last night in Armagh was embarrassing. Everybody who goes to games is behind the Cavan players on the field ,unfortunately a lot of them is a Div 3 standard footballer . Every year the same old story Cavan has to rebuild because players walk ." I wish people would stop on about Monaghan. They are not comparable. Monaghan have won Ulster titles and silverware so of course it has been easier to retain their players. They also don't change their manager at the drop of a hat like we have. Were you even at the game last night or what are you basing your opinion on that players are Division 3 standard? The bulk of these players have spent the last 5 years in either Division 1 or 2 so I don't see how you can suddenly decide they are Division 3. Attending a game rather than being a keyboard warrior might help though. BreffniGuide (Cavan) - Posts: 450 - 26/01/2020 13:41:47 2262478 Link
Replying To BreffniGuide: "I wish people would stop on about Monaghan. They are not comparable. Monaghan have won Ulster titles and silverware so of course it has been easier to retain their players. They also don't change their manager at the drop of a hat like we have. Were you even at the game last night or what are you basing your opinion on that players are Division 3 standard? The bulk of these players have spent the last 5 years in either Division 1 or 2 so I don't see how you can suddenly decide they are Division 3. Attending a game rather than being a keyboard warrior might help though." Yes Breffni I was one of the few Cavan supporters who was at the game , that's why I'm disgusted with what I seen , at one point along the stand side one of our player couldn't even make a 10 yard pass. And you don't get the point that there is a reason for Monaghans success , they keep there best players playing for the county . I'll not name any player on this because they put in a great effort ,but there is a number of Cavan players who was on the field last night who just isn't up to the standard of Div 2 football . goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 292 - 26/01/2020 15:06:07 2262499 Link
Replying To Cavan_Shambles: "Stop telling the truth and talking sense Goonie, the red thumb brigade will be along any moment now to tell you you're too negative. Because if we just "get behind the lads" and "hope for the best", we're "not that far away"." Look on the bright side nobody has said the future is blue for a while now. Look I'm a supporter who goes to club and county games, and as long as lads take the field wearing the Cavan Jersey I will support them. Comments like 'disgrace' and describing the players as division 3 are out of order considering what these lads give up, if the bigger picture is wrong in our county that's no reason to slate these young fellas who are doing their best. I don't see many fresh ideas on here ??? I doubt anyone on here criticizing the players in that game last night has ever Kicked a ball on the county team let alone understand the sarcrifice those lads make in an era where 4 /5 nights training per week is the norm. How about some of the warriors step out from behind the screen and take to coaching an underage team in their club and do something positive. facer4home (Cavan) - Posts: 116 - 26/01/2020 15:56:37 2262511 Link
I agree with not slating the players. They do try but some are just not good enough. Talking to players both club and county it seems to me that the fun is gone out of football completely. It's all gone too serious. That's why we have players dropping out and why we don't get the best players into the county tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 247 - 26/01/2020 16:28:33 2262525 Link
Replying To facer4home: "Look on the bright side nobody has said the future is blue for a while now. Look I'm a supporter who goes to club and county games, and as long as lads take the field wearing the Cavan Jersey I will support them. Comments like 'disgrace' and describing the players as division 3 are out of order considering what these lads give up, if the bigger picture is wrong in our county that's no reason to slate these young fellas who are doing their best. I don't see many fresh ideas on here ??? I doubt anyone on here criticizing the players in that game last night has ever Kicked a ball on the county team let alone understand the sarcrifice those lads make in an era where 4 /5 nights training per week is the norm. How about some of the warriors step out from behind the screen and take to coaching an underage team in their club and do something positive." You just hit the nail on the head when you say " How about some of the warriors step out from behind the screen and take to coaching an underage team in their club and do something positive" Well there lay's the problems this is what the coaches do all the time working from their screen with no imagination. They are trying to implement another keyboard warriors ideas. Get out the F and do it your own way. Manual coaches have brought the game backwards none more so than here in Cavan. Calling the county team a division 3 team is how many feel so you cannot lambast them for voicing their opinions. Right now I fear the aim is to make sure Cavan finish in the top 14 and go from there. A bad loss last nigh but on todays results one can see where Cavan will pick up points. I think to be safe they need 6 points so thats a priority and their minimum target. The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4565 - 26/01/2020 17:54:00 2262553 Link
Wasn't at the game but that was a strong Armagh line out, a team that should have beaten us in Ulster last year. Result not a big surprise. Armagh might well go up this year. I'd expect us to avoid the drop, barely. To all clutching your pearls in horror get a grip, this is our level JamsieMac (Cavan) - Posts: 425 - 26/01/2020 18:59:48 2262582 Link
Cavan football is in a very sad place IanMccullagh (Cavan) - Posts: 7 - 26/01/2020 21:42:52 2262683 Link
What's happening in Cavan with lads leaving is also a national issue. Other counties outside the top 4 have similar experiences. We train as hard and as often as the top teams, but they get a reward, we don't. So it's hard to expect amateurs to put in a professional's effort with little chance of short term success. I think the GPA need to look at this. Has all the current fitness and conditioning, which takes up so much personal time from players, added to the spectacle of the game? I would argue not. Reduce the time required by players to train and play, lower the speed and physical demand on players and let them fit county football back in to their work, family life. Otherwise, our competitions will always be won by one of the same four teams. ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 442 - 27/01/2020 08:38:23 2262766 Link
Replying To ondforty: "What's happening in Cavan with lads leaving is also a national issue. Other counties outside the top 4 have similar experiences. We train as hard and as often as the top teams, but they get a reward, we don't. So it's hard to expect amateurs to put in a professional's effort with little chance of short term success. I think the GPA need to look at this. Has all the current fitness and conditioning, which takes up so much personal time from players, added to the spectacle of the game? I would argue not. Reduce the time required by players to train and play, lower the speed and physical demand on players and let them fit county football back in to their work, family life. Otherwise, our competitions will always be won by one of the same four teams." Noble goals for sure, but how do you implement in practice? How can you stop a team somewhere saying right, we will go mad training to win this league or championship? Once one team does it the rest will follow. fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 27/01/2020 09:09:26 2262773 Link
Replying To Cavan_Shambles: "Stop telling the truth and talking sense Goonie, the red thumb brigade will be along any moment now to tell you you're too negative. Because if we just "get behind the lads" and "hope for the best", we're "not that far away"." When we had 'the best' available in 2017... Cavan: R Galligan; P Faulkner, K Clarke, J McLoughlin; J McEnroe, N Murray, C Moynagh; G McKiernan, T Corr, C Mackey, M Reilly, C Brady; C O'Reilly, L Buchanan, D McVeety. Subs: N McDermott, R Connolly, T Galligan, J Dillon, S Johnston, N Clerkin Lost to Tipp at home in the championship When we had the best available after an Ulster final loss: Cavan: R Galligan; J McLoughlin, P Faulkner, C Moynagh; C Rehill, K Clarke, Ciaran Brady; Conor Brady, G McKiernan; N Murray, D McVeety, G Smith; O Kiernan, C Mackey, M Reilly. Subs: C Madden, O Kiernan , C O'Reilly, S Murray, T Galligan, K Brady Lost by 16 POINTS to Tyrone So, do you not think the question should be 'why do we put the players who walk away up on a pedestal?' I think there is a false narrative in Cavan that the problem is 'too many good players walking away'. It is a source of comfort, thinking 'if only we had them' sort of thing. The lads that have opted out did not really do much when they were available. No doubt that there is an issue with retention that must be solved, but it is most unfair to dismiss the efforts of the current players by constantly inflating the value of those who have left. Do we honestly believe that if Moynagh, Rehill, Clarke, and McVeety were available we would compete with Donegal and Tyrone for Ulster? Answer me that. It seems to me that the best way to gain a reputation in Cavan is to quit- then everyone in the pub and on the podcast will wax lyrical of what you could bring to the team 'if only'. MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 489 - 27/01/2020 10:21:59 2262802 Link
I think the words "we are building a new team" should be officially banned on here. I am not saying we should pull support but those words only antagonise people, who are hearing it as the excuse every year. I am not suprised by the result, given the raft of changes and new players, and will continue to support the team at the home games, but what does worry me is "What is Mickey's overall plan?". His cv shows that he is a great club manager so that would lead me to think that (whether he will be able to realise it or not) he has to have some vision for what he is doing now that he actually sees paying dividends in the end? It would appear that the training commitments have driven some players away and meant that others did not commit. You wont always be able to keep every player, but keeping players happy and involved is as much part of management as anything else. Take Brian Clough as a good example, one of the best managers of all time, his two big jobs he built clubs up from nothing also so I think he can be used as a comparison to Cavan here. He never set foot on the training field and concentrated solely on the personnel and man managing players to get them right for games. From what I have heard, some of it of the WeAreCavan podcast, including from Mickey himself, there is a big drive to match the fitness and conditioning levels of Dublin, Kerry, Donegal etc. and that is the reason for the huge commitment, inclusive of which is continung training through the winters. By the sounds of that, I would guess that "Mickey's Plan" is perhaps taht they are targeting persisting with those who stay the course or meet the conditioning level, in the hope they can compete with the physicallity of Donegal in a c'ship match rather than being bullied and unable to compete like last year's Ulster final. It would be my guess that the above is his plan, but I just wonder if the panel of players he has assembled for this project now, are good enough then on a football level to compete with the Donegal's even if these new conditioning levels are actually reached next year or in 2/3 years, and if too many who would meet that footballing standard have been unnecessarily drivin away for the sake of the conditioning project. I would be interested to hear other posters thoughts on the overall plan? Or if there definitely is one? PatTheDandy (Cavan) - Posts: 282 - 27/01/2020 10:44:26 2262819 Link
Replying To fredflint: "Noble goals for sure, but how do you implement in practice? How can you stop a team somewhere saying right, we will go mad training to win this league or championship? Once one team does it the rest will follow." Fair point, hard to police. I think this is about player welfare. I listened to Colm O'Regan this morning talking about building emotional mindfulness into training / games via 10 min discussion huddles-interesting. I think reducing the training week could be enforced if the GPA asked their players to comply with a max training directive. e.g. Only available to do collective training twice a week, whether for College, U20's, Club or County. Let the players take back some family, social life. If it's player led, then rouge management teams would less likely to undermine it. At the end of the day it's not healthy if players are leaving because they can no longer meet the demands of excessive training. It becomes demoralising for them. I bet several lads, not just in Cavan, are asking themselves this morning, 'Why am I doing this?' ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 442 - 27/01/2020 12:34:01 2262854 Link
There is perks to being an Inter County player too. Gear, nutrition, wouldn't be stuck for employment. It's travelling which would be more of an obstacle for some, travelling a few times up and down to Dublin.. Staying motivated after a few defeats.. FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2216 - 27/01/2020 12:49:07 2262857 Link
Replying To ondforty: "Fair point, hard to police. I think this is about player welfare. I listened to Colm O'Regan this morning talking about building emotional mindfulness into training / games via 10 min discussion huddles-interesting. I think reducing the training week could be enforced if the GPA asked their players to comply with a max training directive. e.g. Only available to do collective training twice a week, whether for College, U20's, Club or County. Let the players take back some family, social life. If it's player led, then rouge management teams would less likely to undermine it. At the end of the day it's not healthy if players are leaving because they can no longer meet the demands of excessive training. It becomes demoralising for them. I bet several lads, not just in Cavan, are asking themselves this morning, 'Why am I doing this?'" Thats a good point, If it was players driven and they all bought into it then it could work. Which begs the question why havent the GPA thought of that? fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 27/01/2020 13:33:06 2262881 Link
Folks Let's keep a bit of perspective about things. Over the past couple of seasons we have taken some bad hidings: 2019 Mickey's first year Tyrone 2018 Mattie's final year Donegal 2017 Mattie's first year No hidings but a humiliating defeat against Tipperary 2016, Terry's last year Tyrone in the replay The guys who have left the panel deserve our thanks for the efforts but they were simply not good enough to get us across the line in Ulster and their frustration with this scenario could be seen quite visibly in the Tyrone game in July. The current manager can only work with the guys who make themselves available and it will take time to improve things. Well done to Armagh who after some very tough times seem to be putting together a team that might just put it up to Tyrone and Donegal in Ulster. They stuck with their manager when many were looking for his head! kildare blue (Cavan) - Posts: 572 - 27/01/2020 14:21:34 2262903 Link
Replying To FoolsGold: "There is perks to being an Inter County player too. Gear, nutrition, wouldn't be stuck for employment. It's travelling which would be more of an obstacle for some, travelling a few times up and down to Dublin.. Staying motivated after a few defeats.." Look after them at home, don't let them go. Do what it takes. Other counties are doing but it's been swept under the carpet. Virginia (Cavan) - Posts: 94 - 28/01/2020 10:46:57 2263142 Link