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So there is nothing new in the incompetence of a club to harvest the huge population they have. Fair enough.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 14/08/2018 16:36:08 2133279 Link 0 |
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Enlighten us Fred...how would harvest the younger population?
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 441 - 14/08/2018 17:17:14 2133321 Link 0 |
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Well I'd start by stop amalgamations for glory, get proper coaches in place with a longer term outlook than fellas going mad to win an u12 tournament. I'm sure if you want to templeport or corlough they'd teach you something about underage player retention. But sure you boys know it all so what's the point.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 14/08/2018 18:32:40 2133358 Link 0 |
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It has been very clear for the last few years that there is going to be big problems in Cavan Town parish fielding teams going forward. There is four clubs in Cavan Town parish. St Felims school in the town is 80% foreign national who do not play GAA -basketball & soccer been the main games. Traditional games families like Mickey Grahams could not get his kids into school in Cavan town and had to send him to Butlersbridge and as a result kids want to play with their school friends the same is happening in Killygarry kids playing with the school mates. As a result the Gaels main supply school is Farnham school which is a mixed school and it also has a large foreign national representation. Drumalee is also going to struggle to get numbers as they only have Drimcrave and whatever come out of St Felims they battle it out with the Gaels.GAA in the county town s going to struggle over the next few years? Four clubs and they are all amalgated at underage to field teams. In the 70s Drumalee didn't field underage teams they all played with the Gaels and went back to Drumalee afeter minor. We are now looking at too many clubs in the parish something will have to give going forward
evano11 (Cavan) - Posts: 257 - 14/08/2018 22:29:56 2133417 Link 0 |
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So that is the problem statement. Now you need to turn that into an opportunity. Gaels should take a look at Ballyhaunis GAA and how the club was used as a vehicle to integrate new people into the parish. Its on Youtube. You still have a load of kids there no matter what nationality and its up the clubs to get in there and get them involved. Amalgamating is not an answer and will end up self defeating.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 15/08/2018 09:22:48 2133479 Link 0 |
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Good man Fred, I'm not sure if you've noticed Fred, but its not just town clubs that have ever decreasing numbers, there a number of amalgamations at underage at the moment, in fact, some of those amalgamations have actually conceded games in the league and championship. But just to give you a bit history, in the 70s, a number of families from Pakistan & Syria moved there and the population increased. In addition, in recent times, the town also welcomed a lot of refugees from war torn Countries, so over 42% of Ballyhaunis are foreign nationals, so I dont think you can really compare Ballyhaunis with Cavan Town. And I must add, Cavan Gaels and later on Killygarry, were some of the first clubs to welcome other nationalities with open arms , and to this both have a number of nationalities playing with them. cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 441 - 15/08/2018 15:19:14 2133620 Link 0 |
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I dont need a lesson from you on ballyhaunis, I've family over there. My point is they were able to harvest people from other backgrounds. Cavan gaels have a huge number of kids in their schools. Whether they are from cavan or Romania is irrelevant. It's up to cavan gaels to get those kids, or more of those kids, playing for cavan gaels. The fact that you, the biggest club in cavan, is amalgamating means your club has failed to do that and I'm sorry you should be embarrassed by that.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 15/08/2018 17:49:35 2133671 Link 0 |
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I think you do need a lesson on Ballyhaunis...if they were so as successful at integrating all those other nationalities, how many Mayo Senior Football Championships have they won since the integration started in the 70s, how many of those nationalities have made the step up from underage to the current senior teams. As you may know, there are 2 main national schools in Cavan Town that historically provided footballers to the Gaels and Drumalee, St Felims and Farnham. Nowadays, neither have the massive numbers that you're talking about and with respect, there are 4 teams in the parish of Cavan, Gaels, Killygarry, Drumalee & the Bridge, so kids within the parish have a choice of which club to play for. Historically, kids would opt to play for the club of their parents, but as a lot of ex players have moved out of town and into these other areas, thats where the kids are playing football. Me, embarrassed? more like proud, as the Gaels have been the most successful club in Cavan for years, I see no reason why two teams should amalgamate if both are short numbers in a particular grade and if it meant that kids got fotoball, in fact, had the Co Board left the grade at under 18, there would have been no amalgamation as both clubs have ample numbers between 17 & 18, I'd be more embarrassed if two clubs amalgamated where the only aim was to win things...and indeed, have the audacity to enter two teams in a competition! cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 441 - 16/08/2018 15:29:06 2133874 Link 0 |
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Templeport were in a minor a final not that long ago yet you expect me to believe there aren't enough kids in the schools in the county town. Rubbish.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 16/08/2018 19:35:10 2133938 Link 0 |
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Most if not all club teams along with some amalgamations are forced to play U15's as they haven't the numbers at 16/17 years of age. Some amalgamations are only interested in winning and will leave 16/17 year olds on the bench to accommodate U15 players to achieve this goal. I find it hard to believe that the Gaels & Killygarry couldn't field teams on their own using U15's and if not competitive in Division 1 would be competitive in the lower divisions. It's not just the Gaels & Killygarry lads who go on holidays.
aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 228 - 29/08/2018 12:58:32 2137378 Link 0 |
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Templeport were in the minor final in 2013 according to what I can find. What's the link to the number of kids in the county town?
Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 29/08/2018 15:24:58 2137430 Link 0 |
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The link is a small village like templeport could get enough kids to go into A championship and compete in the final yet I am expected to believe that poor Cavan Gaels, with a population multiples of Templeport need to amalgamate. I say if they need to amalgamate it is due to making very poor use of the resources in their schools.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 29/08/2018 16:35:26 2137457 Link 0 |
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Yes but this small village had enough kids in one year only. This could happen anywhere on a one-off basis.
Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 29/08/2018 16:46:45 2137461 Link 0 |
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Your missing the point. Yes templeport having that many kids is a one off but it's not a one off in cavan town is it? It's just easier to amalgamate than put the work in.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 29/08/2018 22:19:31 2137550 Link 0 |
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You see Fred, as per usual, you spout a bit of nonsense without getting the facts right just for the sake of it. cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 441 - 30/08/2018 09:30:23 2137593 Link 0 |
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No it's not a one-off in Cavan Town, as far as I know, and I understand your point about amalgamating. I'm not disagreeing with it. So it would appear that we're agreed. The number of players that played for Templeport in one year about five years ago has no relevance to the way that clubs in Cavan town are managing the potential playing resources available to them. Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 30/08/2018 09:39:41 2137594 Link 0 |
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Correct the amount of kids in Templeport has no relevance to the amount of kids in Cavan Town. However I was using Templeport as a comparison as that year they got a very high % of available kids out to play. I think maybe 1 of the age was not involved. What % of kids available to Cavan Gaels have they involved? Easier to amalgamate. However, it will lead to destruction at senior level all these amalgamations as your future club player is likely sitting on his ass at home. There are plenty of examples out there of where this approach lands clubs. Its a shame as Gaels used to be very good at getting their kids out playing. fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 30/08/2018 12:20:33 2137641 Link 0 |
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The Gaels are still trying to engage players, but like any club, if the players arent there, there's nothing they can do. Historically, the Gaels and Drumalee were the town clubs, with St Felims and Farnham as the feeder schools, but as the town started to expand, and houses started to go up on the outskirts of town, kids started to go to schools closer to their homes, and started playing with other clubs because thats where their friends were. Drumalee were a senior club for years, now they're playing junior championship football, Killygarry fielded 3 senior teams about 4/5 years ago, now they struggle to field a second team. Gaels are struggling at underage too. Its happening in alot of other Counties, take Kerry, the biggest footballing County in the Country, they have multiple underage amalgamations and as time goes by, you will have a lot of senior amalgamations. Its not good, but its something the GAA have to face up, kids are choosing other sports, those finishing college or looking for jobs are moving away, lads working away or at college are being asked to come down to training 2/3 times per week, but alot of them are stopping it now, the GAA are the blame for that, they let Gaelic football go that way, then you get the older generation whining about clubs losing identities if they amalgamate, well what happens when club no longer exist, dont clubs amalgamate at underage, dont the Gaels, Drumalee, Killygarry and the Bridge form a Parish team for the community games, things have changed, the older generation need to accept that and move on, kids nowadays dont recognise a clubs identity, they just want to play football. cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 441 - 30/08/2018 13:44:13 2137662 Link 0 |
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If Mickey Graham wanted to send his children to a school in Cavan town he could have, he chose to go to Bultersbridge. Also Cavan Gaels have being served very well this last few years by non nationals who have attended St Felims among other national schools, so it's not true to say foreign nationals don't play GAA. Bultersbridge, Killygarry, Ballyhaise even Templeport among others, all have foreign nationals playing underage football, we even have some representing us at County underage level. If you have been to any underage soccer or basketball games in the past year you'll find the majority of players are Cavan born & bred and most likely playing GAA for their various clubs, they're not all non nationals. Why are some Gaels people making excuses for amalgamating, excuses like the majority of the population are now foreign nationals and don't play GAA, or all the footballing families have moved out of town, or they're competing with multiple sports (aren't all clubs) or the best one, the towns expanding!!! This current Cavan Gaels U17 squad were successful at U12,13 & 14 levels, even last year at U16 they topped the Division 1 league losing only one game out of seven and ended up runners up but hadn't a great championship by their standards, and now this year at U17 they can't field a team, Why? Likewise with Killygarry who easily won a Division 2 U16 championship last year but can't field an U17 team this year.
aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 228 - 30/08/2018 16:00:05 2137707 Link 0 |
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If Micky is living outside the catchment area his children cannot select a school outside of this area. This is only right and proper but I suppose when they wish to register with a club from 16 upwards I am not sure if they have to register in that parish or can come to the Gaels. Children want to play with their friends and really they would not be happy if they were stopped. Looking at Killygarry the way that area is developing they might well be the top team in the town and there is nothing anyone can do about it . Work with what you have at your disposal and hope for the best. I know the non nationals want to play cricket a lot so difficult to bring them into the GAA also other non nationals of a different race many of them wish to play soccer and from they reach 16 they stick with soccer. The gaels had some good under age non national lads that had only one ambition and that was to play soccer this is hard to change. The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4565 - 30/08/2018 17:13:34 2137724 Link 0 |