Cavan Forum

Ulster Championship

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Most former u21 were tried, and discarded when they didn't become Senior footballers ASAP.
Because we wanted and expected instant success because of our u21 wins.
Players were not persevered with at senior level if they didn't make an instant impact
Through time lads like Kevin Meehan blossomed with their clubs and when they were recalled they weren't interested mainly over the way they were treated.
A good manager should have the ability to mould a team together by spotting raw talent.
Like Harte and Cody have done.
McKiernan, Clarke , Murray Moynagh are playing no better football now than they were at u21 level.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 16/05/2018 10:30:09    2101280

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "Hard luck to the team on Sunday. Always felt Donegal were a bridge too far for us before the game and it was a year or two too early for some of our lads to make waves in the championship. But our manager's naivety worries me a bit and I'm not sure if he's the right man at all for this bunch of players. He only seems to know one way. But he's got us to Division 1 so has probably earned the right to see next year through. Players would need to be ok with that though. Hopefully we can put some sort of performances together in the back door to give players and fans alike a bit of hope for next year.
Talk of 100 players or so falling through the net is nonsensical too. Our bench is a bit light but our first 15 is not that far away from full strength. We need to work with the players that are available to us, the younger lads coming through and those willing to put in the hard yards that's required for IC behind the scenes. Calls for changing personnel after every defeat is the last thing we need. A lot of the players being mentioned struggled to get us out of Division 3. The team has progressed. Some of those players didn't."
I agree with what your saying about personnel, probably about 3 or 4 you could add to that team to make it stronger but it is what it is and fair play to the lads that has committed, but more so I think that there is positional switches on that panel that would make it stronger, only my opinion,
R galligan
F reilly. K Clarke. K brady
N Murray. P falkner. C brady
G mckiernan
T galligan
M reilly. D mcveety. C Mackey
C reilly A cole. C Moynagh
Conor Moynagh going back as a sweeper leaving a two man full forward I think this role would suit c Moynagh very well as he is an excellent reader of the game but not a great man marker.

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 743 - 16/05/2018 11:32:14    2101308

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Replying To blueman1903:  "I agree with what your saying about personnel, probably about 3 or 4 you could add to that team to make it stronger but it is what it is and fair play to the lads that has committed, but more so I think that there is positional switches on that panel that would make it stronger, only my opinion,
R galligan
F reilly. K Clarke. K brady
N Murray. P falkner. C brady
G mckiernan
T galligan
M reilly. D mcveety. C Mackey
C reilly A cole. C Moynagh
Conor Moynagh going back as a sweeper leaving a two man full forward I think this role would suit c Moynagh very well as he is an excellent reader of the game but not a great man marker."
T Galligan not in panel so maybe David Brady in instead.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 16/05/2018 11:43:21    2101312

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Replying To doratheexplorer:  "T Galligan not in panel so maybe David Brady in instead."
I didn't know Tomas was gone off the panel.

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 743 - 16/05/2018 11:54:12    2101321

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "Most former u21 were tried, and discarded when they didn't become Senior footballers ASAP.
Because we wanted and expected instant success because of our u21 wins.
Players were not persevered with at senior level if they didn't make an instant impact
Through time lads like Kevin Meehan blossomed with their clubs and when they were recalled they weren't interested mainly over the way they were treated.
A good manager should have the ability to mould a team together by spotting raw talent.
Like Harte and Cody have done.
McKiernan, Clarke , Murray Moynagh are playing no better football now than they were at u21 level."
Not giving new lads a chance is robbing Peter to pay Paul though. It's a competitive environment and everyone deserves a shot. Some make a better fist of it than others. Plenty of lads all around the same level so persistence is required but throwing in the towel and walking away from the panel because of limited pitch time is not the attitude needed. Look at Gunner. Got dropped lots of times even when we were Division 3. But a whole hearted player and has the stomach to fight to wear the jersey. Plenty of more talented players and if they had half his heart might still be involved and our senior team might actually have some winners medals. Ironically this year was actually the year where we actually had less competition in the subs and there would have been more opportunities to stake a claim. But they won't commit. So the lads that their now are the ones to be talking about.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 16/05/2018 12:20:31    2101326

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Replying To blueman1903:  "I agree with what your saying about personnel, probably about 3 or 4 you could add to that team to make it stronger but it is what it is and fair play to the lads that has committed, but more so I think that there is positional switches on that panel that would make it stronger, only my opinion,
R galligan
F reilly. K Clarke. K brady
N Murray. P falkner. C brady
G mckiernan
T galligan
M reilly. D mcveety. C Mackey
C reilly A cole. C Moynagh
Conor Moynagh going back as a sweeper leaving a two man full forward I think this role would suit c Moynagh very well as he is an excellent reader of the game but not a great man marker."
Decent shape to that team. Midfield a problem but not sure if there's any better alternatives. As good a defensive selection that we have but again not guaranteed to work. Hopefully we get a decent draw and string a few good performances together but I'd imagine we'll be gone first very good team we meet. Not the end of the world though. Another year could bring us on a lot.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 16/05/2018 12:34:33    2101333

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Replying To blueman1903:  "I didn't know Tomas was gone off the panel."
Played a club game. Dropped.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 16/05/2018 12:44:42    2101337

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Replying To doratheexplorer:  "Played a club game. Dropped."
That's a pity he has potential.

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 743 - 16/05/2018 13:31:47    2101355

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "Not giving new lads a chance is robbing Peter to pay Paul though. It's a competitive environment and everyone deserves a shot. Some make a better fist of it than others. Plenty of lads all around the same level so persistence is required but throwing in the towel and walking away from the panel because of limited pitch time is not the attitude needed. Look at Gunner. Got dropped lots of times even when we were Division 3. But a whole hearted player and has the stomach to fight to wear the jersey. Plenty of more talented players and if they had half his heart might still be involved and our senior team might actually have some winners medals. Ironically this year was actually the year where we actually had less competition in the subs and there would have been more opportunities to stake a claim. But they won't commit. So the lads that their now are the ones to be talking about."
I agree that we must work with what we have.

Nonetheless, the facts already pointed out by other posters as regards Monaghan (who have a core group of 9 or 10 players together for the past number of years) and Tyrone (who have 7 or 8 lads from the u21 teams that lost to Cavan in 2011 and 2012) cannot be ignored.

What we must do is understand why our best players are not committing. All counties obviously have issues with personnel not playing county for one reason or another, but for us it is undoubtedly a bigger problem.

Something is going wrong when our players are 21/22 years of age, just out of U21 and making that step up to senior level. This must be addressed.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 406 - 16/05/2018 15:36:40    2101411

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We have a panel in place and we have to stick with what we have and do the best we can. If in the autumn players who the management would like to consider make themselves available then by all means bring them back in but on the 16 May we have to play with the cards that we currently possess.

kildare blue (Cavan) - Posts: 572 - 16/05/2018 16:56:58    2101437

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Lots of players can't play for different reasons and that has to be respected.
But I know one particular ex forward who because of the style of play and what he was asked to do as regards tracking back wasn't interested in commiting.
The same lad plays with his club as a forward doing whT a forward does.... scoring.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 16/05/2018 17:00:22    2101441

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "I agree that we must work with what we have.

Nonetheless, the facts already pointed out by other posters as regards Monaghan (who have a core group of 9 or 10 players together for the past number of years) and Tyrone (who have 7 or 8 lads from the u21 teams that lost to Cavan in 2011 and 2012) cannot be ignored.

What we must do is understand why our best players are not committing. All counties obviously have issues with personnel not playing county for one reason or another, but for us it is undoubtedly a bigger problem.

Something is going wrong when our players are 21/22 years of age, just out of U21 and making that step up to senior level. This must be addressed."
Shambles ...those players who haven't committed to Cavan are clearly not good enough, otherwise they wouldn't have been left out by a succession of Cavan managers. So take off the blinkers and face facts.......Cavan are not turning out quality inter county players......particularly scoring forwards...why is that ?

Until you correctly identify the source of the problem, you can't fix it.

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 16/05/2018 17:06:03    2101442

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Replying To Shelbourne:  "Shambles ...those players who haven't committed to Cavan are clearly not good enough, otherwise they wouldn't have been left out by a succession of Cavan managers. So take off the blinkers and face facts.......Cavan are not turning out quality inter county players......particularly scoring forwards...why is that ?

Until you correctly identify the source of the problem, you can't fix it."
It's not lads who were left out that we're talking about - it's 10 starters from the last 2 years!


There's 4 in particular who we miss badly;

Givney is in London for work.
Corr is now married and I think has a baby.
Keating won't play without Givney as the two are good friends. Like it or not, that's his reason.

Those 3 and Martin Dunne (not sure what his reasons are) would make a massive difference!

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4135 - 16/05/2018 17:43:15    2101458

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Replying To Shelbourne:  "Shambles ...those players who haven't committed to Cavan are clearly not good enough, otherwise they wouldn't have been left out by a succession of Cavan managers. So take off the blinkers and face facts.......Cavan are not turning out quality inter county players......particularly scoring forwards...why is that ?

Until you correctly identify the source of the problem, you can't fix it."
I utterly repudiate the notion that we are not producing good footballers in Cavan. If it was a case that Cavan had no talent, then why are our underage teams performing reasonably well since 2011? Clearly, the talent is there. However, it appears to me, that it is being mis-managed.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 406 - 16/05/2018 18:25:27    2101467

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I have painstakingly managed to gather together the list of players who have played championship football for Cavan since 2012.

Incredibly, there are 59 players in championship alone, god knows how many there is if you include the league.

Here they are,

J Reilly
K Clarke
P O'Reilly
K Meehan
J McLoughlin
R Maloney-Derham
D Givney
G McKiernan
F Flanagan
M McKeever
J Brady
E Keating
B Fitzpatrick
D Reilly
R Flanagan
T Corr
N McDermott
N Smith
K Tierney
R Galligan
D Tighe
J Hayes
D McKiernan
C Gilsenan
R Dunne
J McEnroe
A Clarke
C Mackey
M Dunne
A o'Meara
M Reilly
K Brady
M Argue
M Lyng
P Tinnelly
N Murray
T Mooney
D McVeety
C Brady
T Hayes
C Moynagh
B Reilly
P Smith
P Faulkner
S Johnston
G Smith
L Buchanan
C Madden
N Clerkin
R Connolly
J Dillon
C O'Reilly
T Galligan
C Bradley
E Flanagan
B Magee
O kiernan
F Reilly
A Cole


It is completely unsustainable to continue in this fashion going forward. We must keep our best talent on that panel.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 406 - 16/05/2018 18:57:38    2101473

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "I utterly repudiate the notion that we are not producing good footballers in Cavan. If it was a case that Cavan had no talent, then why are our underage teams performing reasonably well since 2011? Clearly, the talent is there. However, it appears to me, that it is being mis-managed."
We are producing good footballers but they not improving.
Is Mc kiernan , Murray , Clarke , Moynagh any better now than at u21 level?
No they not. Why?..

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 16/05/2018 19:09:30    2101476

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "I have painstakingly managed to gather together the list of players who have played championship football for Cavan since 2012.

Incredibly, there are 59 players in championship alone, god knows how many there is if you include the league.

Here they are,

J Reilly
K Clarke
P O'Reilly
K Meehan
J McLoughlin
R Maloney-Derham
D Givney
G McKiernan
F Flanagan
M McKeever
J Brady
E Keating
B Fitzpatrick
D Reilly
R Flanagan
T Corr
N McDermott
N Smith
K Tierney
R Galligan
D Tighe
J Hayes
D McKiernan
C Gilsenan
R Dunne
J McEnroe
A Clarke
C Mackey
M Dunne
A o'Meara
M Reilly
K Brady
M Argue
M Lyng
P Tinnelly
N Murray
T Mooney
D McVeety
C Brady
T Hayes
C Moynagh
B Reilly
P Smith
P Faulkner
S Johnston
G Smith
L Buchanan
C Madden
N Clerkin
R Connolly
J Dillon
C O'Reilly
T Galligan
C Bradley
E Flanagan
B Magee
O kiernan
F Reilly
A Cole


It is completely unsustainable to continue in this fashion going forward. We must keep our best talent on that panel."
59 players since 2012, very interesting. Mind you, not one of them would be a nailed on starter for Tyrone.

MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 489 - 16/05/2018 20:12:10    2101495

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Replying To MadgeKing:  "59 players since 2012, very interesting. Mind you, not one of them would be a nailed on starter for Tyrone."
Dara mcveety would be a starter on most teams.

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 743 - 16/05/2018 20:32:21    2101500

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Replying To MadgeKing:  "59 players since 2012, very interesting. Mind you, not one of them would be a nailed on starter for Tyrone."
And that's just championship, in the league it could well be in excess of 70. This revolving door needs to stop. No county can be competitive with a situation like this.

Well, not at the moment would they be starters, but if they were handled correctly and enjoyed playing for Cavan, things could have been so much different.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 406 - 16/05/2018 21:19:59    2101519

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All counties have U21 panels every year. All counties discard the same amount of players. They are the facts. We are no different. You want to bring some of those players back to need to drop some of the lads that got us to Division 1 this year. Name those who should be discarded or do they not also deserve their shots? So Tyrone and Monaghan kept more from a particular year. So what? Maybe those players chose to stick around after initially struggling. Maybe they took what management asked of them instead of spitting the dummy out and thinking they're bigger than the team. The talk on this forum for years was management having favourites and players being undropable. Now some of those same posters are saying that in fact the opposite was true. Laughable! Players they've previously slated as simply not being good enough, turns out they were All Stars after all.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 16/05/2018 22:36:43    2101537

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