Cavan Forum

Tyrone v Cavan - Ulster Semi-Final

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Replying To fredflint:  "Truth is Tyrone also had a plan and elements of it worked. I said we were set up correctly. Mickey Harte said we had our homework done. But no, it all Terry's fault. Your lack of football knowledge is embarrassing, I hope you are not training kids. Your bitterness towards the current management is even more embarrassing."
There is no bitterness to the current management . They are unbelievably slow at making changes. It's u14 stuff really, when things are not going well take off the corner forward.Bringing on subs with time up when clearly players were out on their feet after playing stormer sin poor conditions is an insult to the panel we have . Givney needs Johnston and Brady . Otherwise don't play Johnston. He's no threat out past 35 metres. Let me tell you one thing that maybe you didn't know... It was the players who decided to change things at half time in the league game against Meath NOT the management. There are good fast skilful forwards like Brady and O Connor well capable of beating their man and scoring if given the quick ball . It's the teams effort that has us where we are not the managements tactics.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 21/06/2016 21:26:02    1870482

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Hi all im sure anyone would agree who was there(in the rain) we were dead on our feet the last 15 minutes and tyrone looked in full controll and in all honestly we looked like the game was up, but unlike other cavan teams we played to the whistle and got a result,i think there is lots of issues here, too many backs, not any real forwards,too many bad kicks for scores and not enough composure when we get a three point lead,the high ball kept the tyrone backs,,, back and not bombing forward, we tried something different, needed seanie or jack closer to david, need cillian at half back , to keep mattie donnelly from running throught and subs on quicker, gearoid was gone from the game second half as was seanie,faulkner should have started or took on for second half and liam at midfield too when we faded last 20 minutes, jack up front alot sooner and keating as he is still a ball winner, we have a strong panel and not using them when we look tried is mind blowing, and not a great message to our bent either, cavan is improving , our dicision making up front needs addressing, tyrone players have been saying that cavan has been there toughest team to play all year, ok althought only division 2, still shows they fear us just as much, hopefully another game with tyrone and beat them would be a huge boost to both players and managment and show real grit and improvment.

sendithome (Cavan) - Posts: 25 - 21/06/2016 21:31:49    1870489

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "There is no bitterness to the current management . They are unbelievably slow at making changes. It's u14 stuff really, when things are not going well take off the corner forward.Bringing on subs with time up when clearly players were out on their feet after playing stormer sin poor conditions is an insult to the panel we have . Givney needs Johnston and Brady . Otherwise don't play Johnston. He's no threat out past 35 metres. Let me tell you one thing that maybe you didn't know... It was the players who decided to change things at half time in the league game against Meath NOT the management. There are good fast skilful forwards like Brady and O Connor well capable of beating their man and scoring if given the quick ball . It's the teams effort that has us where we are not the managements tactics."
If you believe that about the Meath match despite countless interviews with players saying the opposite you really are an unbelievably bitter little man. Possibly the stupidest post I've read on here and that takes some doing. Look there's a decent chance we will lose next day and you can rant and rave then about all Terry's failings and this thread will double in size in a few hours when all your buddies come back to have a moan.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 21/06/2016 21:58:35    1870504

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Replying To fredflint:  "If you believe that about the Meath match despite countless interviews with players saying the opposite you really are an unbelievably bitter little man. Possibly the stupidest post I've read on here and that takes some doing. Look there's a decent chance we will lose next day and you can rant and rave then about all Terry's failings and this thread will double in size in a few hours when all your buddies come back to have a moan."
If we play to our potential we won't lose. If we play the way the players are capable of playing we won't lose. Play like we played for the last 4 and a half league games and we won't lose. We have the best panel of players in a long long time . Better overall panel than 97, more options available. But these options are not being utilised . A blind man can see that. It's a 20 man game nowadays. Use the panel, give them proper game time. No favourites needed. McKiernan , Clarke , Johnston , Flanagan should all have been substituted with at least 15 minutes to go and replaced by C Brady , Argue, Jack Brady, Faulkner. Subs need and deserve 10/15 minutes not 2 minutes like some of them got... 2 minutes is fine if your running down the clock. We were looking to win the game! Wise up Fredflint I'm beginning to think your related to management !

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 21/06/2016 22:12:56    1870515

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While the high ball didn't yield scores it did cause Tyrone problems and if you have only running game Tyrone will swallow you up. Look what happened to Derry. Id like to see Givney and Keating at the edge of the square and Jack Brady in front feeding off. Put Gearoid back on the half forward line and switch him with Givney if its not working. Gearoid has struggled against Tyrone but is clearly better off in half forward position. Ciaran Brady has to start, he offers so much more going forward and was there to set up the goal at the end. He is brilliant at running off the shoulder and can pick of scores in every game. Bench needs to be used from 45-50 minutes on. Management have not learned from Croker letting fresh Tyrone legs cut through us and score 6-7 points in a row while our guys were clearly fatiguing. Subs on with a couple of minutes to go is ridiculous. We do have the players and can beat Tyrone but I'm afraid our sideline needs to start using their brains during the match.

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts: 369 - 22/06/2016 08:24:57    1870565

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I accept that subs could and should have been made earlier. What I am not happy about is the lack of balance from some people who clearly have a chip on their shoulder about the manager. When we win its the players, anything good in a match is the players. Any loss is Hylands fault, anything that goes wrong in the match is Hylands fault. Furthermore, to exasperate these points these same guys will say that we have the best players in Ireland so we should be beating everyone. It's totally unfair criticism of a man who has dedicated his life to Cavan GAA and has overseen a massive improvement in the fortunes of Cavan.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1333 - 22/06/2016 09:43:05    1870596

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Replying To fredflint:  "I accept that subs could and should have been made earlier. What I am not happy about is the lack of balance from some people who clearly have a chip on their shoulder about the manager. When we win its the players, anything good in a match is the players. Any loss is Hylands fault, anything that goes wrong in the match is Hylands fault. Furthermore, to exasperate these points these same guys will say that we have the best players in Ireland so we should be beating everyone. It's totally unfair criticism of a man who has dedicated his life to Cavan GAA and has overseen a massive improvement in the fortunes of Cavan."
Fredflint, I agree TH is GAA to the core and he has changed Cavan football for the better. The whole setup and mentality has changed since and we are catching up to where we should be whereas other teams are falling into where Cavan were, eg Westmeath, Derry, Armagh, Down. I do have misgivings about selection but that's neither here not there. Completely disagreed with Galligan in goal and am delighted to be proven wrong. Look serious plaudits at the weekend for ferocious tackling, turning over Tyrone time and time again. Battling and never say die attitude from the players and confidence and determination and belief to turn up against Tyrone and almost beating them.
I agree that knives are out, I think unfairly, but they will always be for any manager but TH has to learn also. If he worked in any organisation then he would need to show the ability to learn from past mistakes.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results"
Lots of good arguments here with the pro's and con's of TH but unfortunately there is also a jibe at another poster at the end of the post that kinda takes the good away from the posters point.
Terry unfortunately on the line has not learned from previous mistakes. In my opinion even if we haven't scored in 20 minutes but are still in the lead he wont make a change. Even though its plain to see we were struggling but still in front he wont make the switches until the damage is done, Usually then its too late. Luckily this time we managed to salvage a goal and rely on Tyrone kicking wide down the other end. This will frustrate players as well both on the field and on the line.

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts: 369 - 22/06/2016 10:17:54    1870611

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While the high ball didn't yield scores it did cause Tyrone problems and if you have only running game Tyrone will swallow you up. Look what happened to Derry. Id like to see Givney and Keating at the edge of the square and Jack Brady in front feeding off. Put Gearoid back on the half forward line and switch him with Givney if its not working. Gearoid has struggled against Tyrone but is clearly better off in half forward position. Ciaran Brady has to start, he offers so much more going forward and was there to set up the goal at the end. He is brilliant at running off the shoulder and can pick of scores in every game. Bench needs to be used from 45-50 minutes on. Management have not learned from Croker letting fresh Tyrone legs cut through us and score 6-7 points in a row while our guys were clearly fatiguing. Subs on with a couple of minutes to go is ridiculous. We do have the players and can beat Tyrone but I'm afraid our sideline needs to start using their brains during the match.

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts:285 - 22/06/2016 08:24:57 1870565

I am confused by your post and I am wondering what planet you are on. You want to put our midfielder in the half forward line leave Givney full forward put Jack as a poacher and Ciaran Brady what is this as an attacking half back now Killian Clarke is a natural wing half or even Mid field but a wing half back for me and he would also be a running half back, so now we have two half backs attacking we have the center half back attacking we have no mid field or do they over lap Mossy or what.
The conditions in Clones were as I have stated all ready not conducive to playing good football and Tyrone were not able to handle the long high ball BUT if I may would S Johnston have been better off standing on the D for David punched down many balls that the two free Tyrone backs picked up.
Mr Hyland has to put players in every position from the goal keeper to full forward he would be in serious trouble if he listened to you for we would have 9 players at some stage when they go forward, you seem to forget it's Tyrone we are playing and let me tell you there is no better team in the country in turning over the ball and advancing up the field at pace.
It's a hard job being a manager for yes the buck stops at him every time and the same applied to previous managers the buck stopped at them. Even when Mr Hyland was joint manager with Val Andrews the buck stopped at Val no different from Liam Austin Eamon Coleman Matty Kerrigan Marty McIlkinnen Tommy Carr and so on the buck will alway's stop at the manager it's the way it is.
Let me tell you should Cavan win the Anglo Celt cup or get to the last four or eight in the country the praise will be heaped on the manager or the anti brigade will have a field day attacking the manager if he fails. Everyone knows who was the manager when Cavan won the Anglo Celt cup in 97 how many can name the team that year but everyone knows who the manager was, it's the way it is.
Constructive criticism is very welcome but negative criticism without foundation is not in my eyes.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4565 - 22/06/2016 10:53:34    1870641

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Replying To seanorinn:  "While the high ball didn't yield scores it did cause Tyrone problems and if you have only running game Tyrone will swallow you up. Look what happened to Derry. Id like to see Givney and Keating at the edge of the square and Jack Brady in front feeding off. Put Gearoid back on the half forward line and switch him with Givney if its not working. Gearoid has struggled against Tyrone but is clearly better off in half forward position. Ciaran Brady has to start, he offers so much more going forward and was there to set up the goal at the end. He is brilliant at running off the shoulder and can pick of scores in every game. Bench needs to be used from 45-50 minutes on. Management have not learned from Croker letting fresh Tyrone legs cut through us and score 6-7 points in a row while our guys were clearly fatiguing. Subs on with a couple of minutes to go is ridiculous. We do have the players and can beat Tyrone but I'm afraid our sideline needs to start using their brains during the match.

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts:285 - 22/06/2016 08:24:57 1870565

I am confused by your post and I am wondering what planet you are on. You want to put our midfielder in the half forward line leave Givney full forward put Jack as a poacher and Ciaran Brady what is this as an attacking half back now Killian Clarke is a natural wing half or even Mid field but a wing half back for me and he would also be a running half back, so now we have two half backs attacking we have the center half back attacking we have no mid field or do they over lap Mossy or what.
The conditions in Clones were as I have stated all ready not conducive to playing good football and Tyrone were not able to handle the long high ball BUT if I may would S Johnston have been better off standing on the D for David punched down many balls that the two free Tyrone backs picked up.
Mr Hyland has to put players in every position from the goal keeper to full forward he would be in serious trouble if he listened to you for we would have 9 players at some stage when they go forward, you seem to forget it's Tyrone we are playing and let me tell you there is no better team in the country in turning over the ball and advancing up the field at pace.
It's a hard job being a manager for yes the buck stops at him every time and the same applied to previous managers the buck stopped at them. Even when Mr Hyland was joint manager with Val Andrews the buck stopped at Val no different from Liam Austin Eamon Coleman Matty Kerrigan Marty McIlkinnen Tommy Carr and so on the buck will alway's stop at the manager it's the way it is.
Let me tell you should Cavan win the Anglo Celt cup or get to the last four or eight in the country the praise will be heaped on the manager or the anti brigade will have a field day attacking the manager if he fails. Everyone knows who was the manager when Cavan won the Anglo Celt cup in 97 how many can name the team that year but everyone knows who the manager was, it's the way it is.
Constructive criticism is very welcome but negative criticism without foundation is not in my eyes."
Seanorinn, Why confused and why the insult (what planet?).
I never mentioned where to play Mossy or Killian Clarke but
Has Gearoid not played a half forward this year? Id rather Gearoid in the scoring zone than scraping it out a midfield.
Is Ciaran Brady not worth a starting place at half back. Does he not attack as well as defend?
Is Eugene Keating not worth a punt with Jack Brady sitting off two big forwards?
Were the substitutions timely against Tyrone?

"Constructive criticism is very welcome but negative criticism without foundation is not in my eyes"
Where is the negative?
Where is the lack of foundation?

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts: 369 - 22/06/2016 11:11:01    1870653

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "If we play to our potential we won't lose. If we play the way the players are capable of playing we won't lose. Play like we played for the last 4 and a half league games and we won't lose. We have the best panel of players in a long long time . Better overall panel than 97, more options available. But these options are not being utilised . A blind man can see that. It's a 20 man game nowadays. Use the panel, give them proper game time. No favourites needed. McKiernan , Clarke , Johnston , Flanagan should all have been substituted with at least 15 minutes to go and replaced by C Brady , Argue, Jack Brady, Faulkner. Subs need and deserve 10/15 minutes not 2 minutes like some of them got... 2 minutes is fine if your running down the clock. We were looking to win the game! Wise up Fredflint I'm beginning to think your related to management !"
there has been a lot of fair points in the earlier posts. i agree the Tyrone will improve but i thingk we wuill have learned a lot and have a lot more to offer. the managment team are the ones at training and they are monitoring the players and pick a team which the y feel best suits the opposition and gameplan. i dont have a patricular desire to se x or y player but we should learn from our previous 3 experineces against Tyrone this year. i agrre the high ball was not sucessful but it did identify a weakness that mangaed approriately could be capitalised upon by playing someone off the big man. it was a tactic in the 80's/90's for a lot of teams and more recently for kerry with donaghy. in no way is it a single tactic but it something we should consider at varying times in the game. i have watched the video from the last 3 games and from some of the league performances it is very clear where the bult of our scores come from. essently moving the ball at speed and avoiding taking the ball into contact. it seems to generate a spread and type of score and not reliant on one man like the use of the high ball might be. we can attack at serious pace and no team can stop it if you avoid going into contact. just have a look at the tapes and you will see what i mean. Gearoid is a marked man so we have got to get clever about how we use him. i agree e missed aopportuity to change it up in the third quarter last sunday and unfortunately we have previous on this one. i do applud the mamangament for trying to mix it up last week we will need it again the next but never at the cost of what we do best.
i am really looking forward to the next day admire the dsire within the camp. lots of commentators say tyrone area dry ball team. as it goes i thing we are too. i would be more worried it we were playing to our full potential but i feel there is more in the tank. might not be enough to topple Hartes men but it feels much better than at this stage last year.

toolbox (None) - Posts: 68 - 22/06/2016 11:57:26    1870682

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Replying To seanorinn:  "While the high ball didn't yield scores it did cause Tyrone problems and if you have only running game Tyrone will swallow you up. Look what happened to Derry. Id like to see Givney and Keating at the edge of the square and Jack Brady in front feeding off. Put Gearoid back on the half forward line and switch him with Givney if its not working. Gearoid has struggled against Tyrone but is clearly better off in half forward position. Ciaran Brady has to start, he offers so much more going forward and was there to set up the goal at the end. He is brilliant at running off the shoulder and can pick of scores in every game. Bench needs to be used from 45-50 minutes on. Management have not learned from Croker letting fresh Tyrone legs cut through us and score 6-7 points in a row while our guys were clearly fatiguing. Subs on with a couple of minutes to go is ridiculous. We do have the players and can beat Tyrone but I'm afraid our sideline needs to start using their brains during the match.

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts:285 - 22/06/2016 08:24:57 1870565

I am confused by your post and I am wondering what planet you are on. You want to put our midfielder in the half forward line leave Givney full forward put Jack as a poacher and Ciaran Brady what is this as an attacking half back now Killian Clarke is a natural wing half or even Mid field but a wing half back for me and he would also be a running half back, so now we have two half backs attacking we have the center half back attacking we have no mid field or do they over lap Mossy or what.
The conditions in Clones were as I have stated all ready not conducive to playing good football and Tyrone were not able to handle the long high ball BUT if I may would S Johnston have been better off standing on the D for David punched down many balls that the two free Tyrone backs picked up.
Mr Hyland has to put players in every position from the goal keeper to full forward he would be in serious trouble if he listened to you for we would have 9 players at some stage when they go forward, you seem to forget it's Tyrone we are playing and let me tell you there is no better team in the country in turning over the ball and advancing up the field at pace.
It's a hard job being a manager for yes the buck stops at him every time and the same applied to previous managers the buck stopped at them. Even when Mr Hyland was joint manager with Val Andrews the buck stopped at Val no different from Liam Austin Eamon Coleman Matty Kerrigan Marty McIlkinnen Tommy Carr and so on the buck will alway's stop at the manager it's the way it is.
Let me tell you should Cavan win the Anglo Celt cup or get to the last four or eight in the country the praise will be heaped on the manager or the anti brigade will have a field day attacking the manager if he fails. Everyone knows who was the manager when Cavan won the Anglo Celt cup in 97 how many can name the team that year but everyone knows who the manager was, it's the way it is.
Constructive criticism is very welcome but negative criticism without foundation is not in my eyes."
Sean O Rinn I don't know why you feel the need to drag up names like VA and TC. These 2 brought Cavan football to its knees and we nearly ended up in Div 4. So the less said the better.. Still we have a proper good footballing Chairman in place now . A man who has played at all levels for Cavan and also has stood on the terraces. Leave the past in the past. Lessons have been learned and Cavan football is starting to flourish and long may it continue

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 23/06/2016 00:28:11    1870991

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Sean O Rinn I don't know why you feel the need to drag up names like VA and TC. These 2 brought Cavan football to its knees and we nearly ended up in Div 4. So the less said the better.. Still we have a proper good footballing Chairman in place now . A man who has played at all levels for Cavan and also has stood on the terraces. Leave the past in the past. Lessons have been learned and Cavan football is starting to flourish and long may it continue

Awwwwnow (Cavan) -

Seems we have a lot to be thankful to Terry Hyland for, from bringing Cavan football from the depths, to where we are today, not only competing with the big boys but expecting to beat them also. We've come a long way from being beaten by Antrim in the 2009 Ulster semi final and relying on Offaly doing us a favour to avoid the drop to Div 4 to the couldn't care less attitude of the players and it's all mainly due to the work Terry has put into Cavan football. The structures he put in place at U21 level not only yielded 5 Ulster final appearances in a row ,winning 4 in a row but also gave these lads the confidence and belief that they could beat anyone on their day. Indeed he has instilled traits in them that he himself had in his playing days, traits like sheer heart , guts , determination and a never say die attitude. Of course he's made mistakes in his management, name a manager who hasn't ? also name another manager who has brought their county so far? as I've said we have a lot to be thankful to Terry for and when he does step down I'm sure we'll have a long line of lads willing to take his place, maybe even one or two lads on here might step up to the plate!!!!

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 228 - 23/06/2016 10:14:10    1871055

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Replying To aceofspades:  "Sean O Rinn I don't know why you feel the need to drag up names like VA and TC. These 2 brought Cavan football to its knees and we nearly ended up in Div 4. So the less said the better.. Still we have a proper good footballing Chairman in place now . A man who has played at all levels for Cavan and also has stood on the terraces. Leave the past in the past. Lessons have been learned and Cavan football is starting to flourish and long may it continue

Awwwwnow (Cavan) -

Seems we have a lot to be thankful to Terry Hyland for, from bringing Cavan football from the depths, to where we are today, not only competing with the big boys but expecting to beat them also. We've come a long way from being beaten by Antrim in the 2009 Ulster semi final and relying on Offaly doing us a favour to avoid the drop to Div 4 to the couldn't care less attitude of the players and it's all mainly due to the work Terry has put into Cavan football. The structures he put in place at U21 level not only yielded 5 Ulster final appearances in a row ,winning 4 in a row but also gave these lads the confidence and belief that they could beat anyone on their day. Indeed he has instilled traits in them that he himself had in his playing days, traits like sheer heart , guts , determination and a never say die attitude. Of course he's made mistakes in his management, name a manager who hasn't ? also name another manager who has brought their county so far? as I've said we have a lot to be thankful to Terry for and when he does step down I'm sure we'll have a long line of lads willing to take his place, maybe even one or two lads on here might step up to the plate!!!!"
Sean O Rinn I don't know why you feel the need to drag up names like VA and TC. These 2 brought Cavan football to its knees and we nearly ended up in Div 4. So the less said the better.. Still we have a proper good footballing Chairman in place now . A man who has played at all levels for Cavan and also has stood on the terraces. Leave the past in the past. Lessons have been learned and Cavan football is starting to flourish and long may it continue

Awwwwnow (Cavan) -

With Carr you are spot on, but fella I have to disagree with you on Val Andrews and don't forget Mr Hyland was joint manager with Val don't ever forget that.
Are you saying that our last chairman had no footballing back ground I think before you reply to this go and do some research. When /if I write a book the truth will be told this I guarantee you. Remember our U21 manager was the trainer of the seniors under Carr and I will acknowledge Val Andrews no matter what. Val Andrews was a gentleman of the highest order.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) Just to let you know you have your match when it comes to me and the past from 71 onwards. I have seen managers and chairmen come and go and I also know their contribution to the county set up also player's good and bad. Can we leave your issue you have with me for another day away from Cavan and Tyrone if you don't mind.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4565 - 23/06/2016 12:25:19    1871131

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Sean o Rinn you brought up both names on a thread where there was no reason to bring up their names. In fact in 2012?we were nearly in Div 4 because of one particular manager. And the same manager never got an other inter county job since. TH has done wonders for Cavan football to bring us Div 1 and competing with the big boys. I just hope he has the necessary know how and tactics to keep his there as we have a great panel. Some of his tactics seem a bit amateurish and substitutions a bit slow to compete with the Mickey Harte s of this world. But nobody can question where he got us. But staying there is more important and if he needs a big experienced selector who has been there well let him go for it. It's all about staying in Div 1 to gain the necessary experience. So you also need experience on the line.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 23/06/2016 22:18:43    1871386

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